Leafs need to address the goaltending.

[thusk]

You over analyzing the goalie thus you are literally focusing and blaming everything on the goalie.
For every incident or moment you mentioned about the goalie, we could all say the same about AM, MM and JT not being clutch and actually put one by Bob when they had the chance during the game, they would had won the Cup.

There is no justification for AM, MM and JT to combine for ONE goal in a playoff series.

the reality is in hockey when you score 3 goal ir more, you should win your game...

just as exemple 8 gm of samsonov

gm 1 toronto had to score 8 goal to win
gm 2 3 goal to win
gm 3 4 goal to win
gm 4 5 goal to win
gm 5 4 goal to win
gn 6 2 goal to win
gm 7 5 goal to win
gm 8 4 goal to win

6 of 8 game he played, leafs had to score at least 4 goal to win, honestly how do you think a team will win in playoff that way

if marner and matthews was not there vs tb, toronto lost it in 5 max... thats the reality

and yeah core could score more but they cant overcome bad goaltending every 3 game of 4 game stretche

 

[JKG33]

I'm not convinced Woll is the #1 either, he's injury prone always has bee, I don't think the #1 goalie is currently on this team.

I don't know who it is, it may even be an off season move because only Woll has a contract for next year.

But I do know It's not Jones and I'm not convinced It's Woll either.

Woll has to stay healthy.

They may not be the answer, but I love the dollar value. Two NHL goalies for a combined cap of less than 2mil.

I said it in the offseason and I'll say it again, these two at their combined cap hit is exactly what this team needs if they're gunna be overpaying forwards.

 

[Gabriel426]

the reality is in hockey when you score 3 goal ir more, you should win your game...

just as exemple 8 gm of samsonov

gm 1 toronto had to score 8 goal to win
gm 2 3 goal to win
gm 3 4 goal to win
gm 4 5 goal to win
gm 5 4 goal to win
gn 6 2 goal to win
gm 7 5 goal to win
gm 8 4 goal to win

6 of 8 game he played, leafs had to score at least 4 goal to win, honestly how do you think a team will win in playoff that way

if marner and matthews was not there vs tb, toronto lost it in 5 max... thats the reality

and yeah core could score more but they cant overcome bad goaltending every 3 game of 4 game stretche

Finally, you acknowledge they need to score more.

10 goals in 5 games and ONE goal for our three 10mil plus players is not acceptable as NO teams can expect to win in a playoffs series when their top 3 highest paid forwards and also their players and close to 40% of the cap scored ONE goal in a playoff series.

If they actually scored more goals like 40% of the goals scored in the series. Blame the goalie, coach even Carlton the Bear. But if they-AM, MM and JT combined for ONE goal in a series, they are as fault as anyone on the Leafs for getting knocked out in the playoffs. None of them stepped up when it mattered the most.

Interesting how you mentioned needing 3 goals to win games, the Leafs led by AM, MM and JT averaged two goals in the last 7-8 playoff games.

You also mentioned mentality of players knowing and how it affects their plays with a goalie who makes saves… Maybe if the top guys actually score ONE more goal per game, the goalie will be more at ease as he knows three of the seven highest paid forwards in the game can score for him thus he is less tense and actually had better games. Do you think about that?

I am not saying Sammy, Andersen or Campbell was not a problem or Keefe was not a problem, bc they all contributed but to say our top three-AM, MM and JT did their job and it was up to the others to take care of business is just wrong. Even if you ask those three, I am 100% certain none of them would say, I did the best, the other guys needed to be better.

 

[thusk]

Finally, you acknowledge they need to score more.

10 goals in 5 games and ONE goal for our three 10mil plus players is not acceptable as NO teams can expect to win in a playoffs series when their top 3 highest paid forwards and also their players and close to 40% of the cap scored ONE goal in a playoff series.

If they actually scored more goals like 40% of the goals scored in the series. Blame the goalie, coach even Carlton the Bear. But if they-AM, MM and JT combined for ONE goal in a series, they are as fault as anyone on the Leafs for getting knocked out in the playoffs. None of them stepped up when it mattered the most.

Interesting how you mentioned needing 3 goals to win games, the Leafs led by AM, MM and JT averaged two goals in the last 7-8 playoff games.

You also mentioned mentality of players knowing and how it affects their plays with a goalie who makes saves… Maybe if the top guys actually score ONE more goal per game, the goalie will be more at ease as he knows three of the seven highest paid forwards in the game can score for him thus he is less tense and actually had better games. Do you think about that?

I am not saying Sammy, Andersen or Campbell was not a problem or Keefe was not a problem, bc they all contributed but to say our top three-AM, MM and JT did their job and it was up to the others to take care of business is just wrong. Even if you ask those three, I am 100% certain none of them would say, I did the best, the other guys needed to be better.

i said it again without matthews and marner last season, leafs season is over after 5 game vs tampa and nothing happening after would never happen...

they carry the team to overcome goaltending issu most of the time but overcome goaltending issues when goalie playing great hockey... good luck

like i said, just take in consederstion how much much pressure goaltending issue add to leafs core...if you dont believe me, watch again exemple how matthews took his shoot gm 1 and 2 vs florida vs gm 3-4-5. It was not the same shot... gm 1 or 2, he took good shot and forced Bobrovsky to make good save but most of the time time the same shot gm 3,4,5 the shot was 10 feet wide of the net... Why? because he felt the pressure who was already extremely high on his shoulder becomeing even bigger. Its just 1 exemple. If you want the best of core 4, you need to reduce the pressure on their shoulder and how you do this, with someone able to get the job done in front the net. Thats what im saying.

im not telling core cant do more than what they actually did. What i say its they need someone to remove a part of pressure off their shoulder and the best player to add or remove pressure is goaltender, thats it. get a Samsonov and Campbell like they played last 3 playoff, thats just adding a huge pack of pressure on their shoulder.

just switch samsonov and bobrovsky vs florida and this serie is over in 4 game in favor of leafs with absolutly any kind of doubt. leafs would probably had an average of goal somewhere around 4 GF/gm vs probably around 1.5 GA/gm

 

[Gabriel426]

i said it again without matthews and marner last season, leafs season is over after 5 game vs tampa and nothing happening after would never happen...

they carry the team to overcome goaltending issu most of the time but overcome goaltending issues when goalie playing great hockey... good luck

like i said, just take in consederstion how much much pressure goaltending issue add to leafs core...if you dont believe me, watch again exemple how matthews took his shoot gm 1 and 2 vs florida vs gm 3-4-5. It was not the same shot... gm 1 or 2, he took good shot and forced Bobrovsky to make good save but most of the time time the same shot gm 3,4,5 the shot was 10 feet wide of the net... Why? because he felt the pressure who was already extremely high on his shoulder becomeing even bigger. Its just 1 exemple. If you want the best of core 4, you need to reduce the pressure on their shoulder and how you do this, with someone able to get the job done in front the net. Thats what im saying.

im not telling core cant do more than what they actually did. What i say its they need someone to remove a part of pressure off their shoulder and the best player to add or remove pressure is goaltender, thats it. get a Samsonov and Campbell like they played last 3 playoff, thats just adding a huge pack of pressure on their shoulder.

just switch samsonov and bobrovsky vs florida and this serie is over in 4 game in favor of leafs with absolutly any kind of doubt. leafs would probably had an average of goal somewhere around 4 GF/gm vs probably around 1.5 GA/gm

You do know that you are finally agreeing that our Top 3 didn't do enough to win.
From the start, I never said goaltending was not a problem, but it is just one of them. Just like our top three scoring ONE goal in a playoff series.
As for carrying the team, I think the supporting players scoring 90% of the goals scored actually carried the team. As for some reason, they are able to beat the goaltenders NINE times and most of them didn't played with another 10mil plus player and without PP1 time.

 

[thusk]

You do know that you are finally agreeing that our Top 3 didn't do enough to win.
From the start, I never said goaltending was not a problem, but it is just one of them. Just like our top three scoring ONE goal in a playoff series.
As for carrying the team, I think the supporting players scoring 90% of the goals scored actually carried the team. As for some reason, they are able to beat the goaltenders NINE times and most of them didn't played with another 10mil plus player and without PP1 time.

they did it 2 of last 3 playoff

even crosby/malkin/ kessel/letang needed help

i will take exemple of pittsburgh in 2017 second round... Why did they won it, because the 5 player who count for 50% of salary cap carry the team? no gm 3 to 7 they was pretty quiet... but someone else step up and his name was Marc-André Fleury. if flower is not there, pittsburgh certainly lost this series and didn't won cup. When pittsburgh top gun didn't carried the team, someone else did it.

never 4 foward alone will overcome an average D+ pretty poor goaltending...

i guarantee you they will still a moment in every playoff where leafs top gun will not be able to carry team alone and will need help to win game despite it. Its whats good team doing and the best exemple i can give you is Edmonton. When mcdavid and drasaitl played amaizing offensive game and carry the oilers, everything are fine... the day they slow down a little bit and not enough , its over because they have the same exact weakness than toronto ( and Smith was probably the best goalie of both team in last 3 playoff).

when youre down 2-0 you dont play the same way than with 2-0 lead.

playing down 2-0 in a serie vs lead 2-0, you dont play the same way

playing in front a goalie whos making save, you dont play the same way than a goalie making save... leafs this season didn't played the same way in front of samsonov than what they did in front of Woll and Jones. leafs didn't played the same way vs buffalo or columbus than how they played since california trip

if you want the best

ps nylander is a member of core 4, i dont understand why you remove him ...

 

[NVious]

Guys what if our problem is we didn't play Samsonov ENOUGH?

He's playing badly as a means of acting out for not starting every game, if he plays 800 more games, I predict he will eventually put together a string of 10-20 good games, what if that's in the playoffs and we WIN THE CUP???

#PlaySamsonovMore #TheProblemWasEveryoneElse

 

[Gabriel426]

they did it 2 of last 3 playoff

even crosby/malkin/ kessel/letang needed help

i will take exemple of pittsburgh in 2017 second round... Why did they won it, because the 5 player who count for 50% of salary cap carry the team? no gm 3 to 7 they was pretty quiet... but someone else step up and his name was Marc-André Fleury. if flower is not there, pittsburgh certainly lost this series and didn't won cup. When pittsburgh top gun didn't carried the team, someone else did it.

never 4 foward alone will overcome an average D+ pretty poor goaltending...

i guarantee you they will still a moment in every playoff where leafs top gun will not be able to carry team alone and will need help to win game despite it. Its whats good team doing and the best exemple i can give you is Edmonton. When mcdavid and drasaitl played amaizing offensive game and carry the oilers, everything are fine... the day they slow down a little bit and not enough , its over because they have the same exact weakness than toronto ( and Smith was probably the best goalie of both team in last 3 playoff).

when youre down 2-0 you dont play the same way than with 2-0 lead.

playing down 2-0 in a serie vs lead 2-0, you dont play the same way

playing in front a goalie whos making save, you dont play the same way than a goalie making save... leafs this season didn't played the same way in front of samsonov than what they did in front of Woll and Jones. leafs didn't played the same way vs buffalo or columbus than how they played since california trip

if you want the best

ps nylander is a member of core 4, i dont understand why you remove him ...

You do know that you are continuing to prove my point about needing better goaltending by stating our goaltending in the past sucks.
While also pointing out our top three/ 10mil plus players were not scoring when needed. The one series they did, guess what, they won. And they won those games despite Sammy being subpar in two of those four Wins. That’s just proves that when they score like they can, the Leafs got a good chance of winning even with subpar goaltending.
One goal and 10% goals scored in 5 playoffs games won’t do it. If you can’t see that, I don’t know what else to say.

As to why I don’t consider Willie as Core 4.
1. He makes 7mil which is not even top 40 salaries(I think) in the league. Pretty much all teams have one or two players making more than him. Where as AM, JT and MM are three of the top 7 highest paid players in the league. That’s why those three are in different categories than the rest of the team.

 

[Confucius]

Guys what if our problem is we didn't play Samsonov ENOUGH?

He's playing badly as a means of acting out for not starting every game, if he plays 800 more games, I predict he will eventually put together a string of 10-20 good games, what if that's in the playoffs and we WIN THE CUP???

#PlaySamsonovMore #TheProblemWasEveryoneElse

In all honesty that is the way of the playoffs. All it takes is to get hot at the right time. And I know we are consistently cold but it is that way.

 

[thusk]

You do know that you are continuing to prove my point about needing better goaltending by stating our goaltending in the past sucks.
While also pointing out our top three/ 10mil plus players were not scoring when needed. The one series they did, guess what, they won. And they won those games despite Sammy being subpar in two of those four Wins. That’s just proves that when they score like they can, the Leafs got a good chance of winning even with subpar goaltending.
One goal and 10% goals scored in 5 playoffs games won’t do it. If you can’t see that, I don’t know what else to say.

As to why I don’t consider Willie as Core 4.
1. He makes 7mil which is not even top 40 salaries(I think) in the league. Pretty much all teams have one or two players making more than him. Where as AM, JT and MM are three of the top 7 highest paid players in the league. That’s why those three are in different categories than the rest of the team.

who scored goal vs tampa just for fun

61 % of every goal came off 4 player and thats including 7 of last 8 goal of serie matthews, marner, tavares and rielly. it was 78 of leafs goal gm 4 to 6

so like i said, you cant expect than 3-4 player only carry you during 20 to 24 playoff game, not in modern hockey.

 

[thusk]

...

 

[Gabriel426]

who scored goal vs tampa just for fun

61 % of every goal came off 4 player and thats including 7 of last 8 goal of serie matthews, marner, tavares and rielly. it was 78 of leafs goal gm 4 to 6

so like i said, you cant expect than 3-4 player only carry you during 20 to 24 playoff game, not in modern hockey.

how many goals did they scored against the Panthers. Two games we lost to Panthers in OT, if only AM, JT and MM scored one goal in each of those games, maybe it won’t need OT and Leafs would had taken those two games. If those three bother scoring a goal in Game 2 to make it 3-0 or 3-1. Maybe Sammy will be more relax and make more saves and Panthers players will be shooting differently like how you said about AM.
Funny how all those three games will be won by the Leafs as they scored more than two goals.
If only our 33mil players can score a goal each in those three games , Leafs would had made it to the ECF.
They didn’t carry the Leafs heck, they were pure passengers against the Panthers as they combined for ONE goal. That’s a fact. All they needed is to score one goal each in three other games and the Leafs. For the record, I think Kampf scored more goal than AM and JT in the Panther series.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

They may not be the answer, but I love the dollar value. Two NHL goalies for a combined cap of less than 2mil.

I said it in the offseason and I'll say it again, these two at their combined cap hit is exactly what this team needs if they're gunna be overpaying forwards.

You might love the dollar amount but you aren't going to find the guy for less than 1 million unless you really think Jones can keep this up for 5 more months and win a championship.

Even if he did he just turned 34 so he's not a long term solution regardless.

Is it Woll? It could be but for that to happen the injury issues need to stop.

 

[thusk]

how many goals did they scored against the Panthers. Two games we lost to Panthers in OT, if only AM, JT and MM scored one goal in each of those games, maybe it won’t need OT and Leafs would had taken those two games. If those three bother scoring a goal in Game 2 to make it 3-0 or 3-1. Maybe Sammy will be more relax and make more saves and Panthers players will be shooting differently like how you said about AM.
Funny how all those three games will be won by the Leafs as they scored more than two goals.
If only our 33mil players can score a goal each in those three games , Leafs would had made it to the ECF.
They didn’t carry the Leafs heck, they were pure passengers against the Panthers as they combined for ONE goal. That’s a fact. All they needed is to score one goal each in three other games and the Leafs. For the record, I think Kampf scored more goal than AM and JT in the Panther series.

hockey is a game of momemtum, but when your goalie broke it all the time...

matthews didn't scored a goal but knies goal who slow down the game, buy time and made a fantastic pass right on knies stick open in the slot? gm 1 matthews, jt and marner when they was on the ice had basically the same number of scoring chance than the entire florida team and more HDC and imagine they lost.

gm 2 its not marner who had his name of goal list but hes the guy who gave up a 1st attempt to oreilly right in the slot and gave him a 2nd opportunity on empty net. so oreilly get all the credit for marner job... but what whoncost the game is the fact they waste a 2 goal lead in 10 minutes with 2 goal who should never goes in. With Woll unstead of Samsonkv in that game, im 100% sure leafs win it... leafs played a better 30 minutes in that game than what they did in gm 4 but was giving 3 goal what they gave gm 4. and yes if samsonov would do his job, maybe core who add 1 or 2 goal and give him a 3 or 4 goal lead but he didn't made save.


your acting like if they had been trash in those game and for me the turning point in that serie was gm 1-2... but they played basically 2 of their 4 best game in playoff in 2013 in those 2 game, was easily the best team on the ice but was down 2-0. With wich kind of mentality do you think player came back in locker room after... Thats where as a player you start to overthink and unstead of keeping your game simple and work hard like you did, youre still in your head and your game become affect .

 

[Gabriel426]

hockey is a game of momemtum, but when your goalie broke it all the time...

matthews didn't scored a goal but knies goal who slow down the game, buy time and made a fantastic pass right on knies stick open in the slot? gm 1 matthews, jt and marner when they was on the ice had basically the same number of scoring chance than the entire florida team and more HDC and imagine they lost.

gm 2 its not marner who had his name of goal list but hes the guy who gave up a 1st attempt to oreilly right in the slot and gave him a 2nd opportunity on empty net. so oreilly get all the credit for marner job... but what whoncost the game is the fact they waste a 2 goal lead in 10 minutes with 2 goal who should never goes in. With Woll unstead of Samsonkv in that game, im 100% sure leafs win it... leafs played a better 30 minutes in that game than what they did in gm 4 but was giving 3 goal what they gave gm 4. and yes if samsonov would do his job, maybe core who add 1 or 2 goal and give him a 3 or 4 goal lead but he didn't made save.


your acting like if they had been trash in those game and for me the turning point in that serie was gm 1-2... but they played basically 2 of their 4 best game in playoff in 2013 in those 2 game, was easily the best team on the ice but was down 2-0. With wich kind of mentality do you think player came back in locker room after... Thats where as a player you start to overthink and unstead of keeping your game simple and work hard like you did, youre still in your head and your game become affect .

I am kind of bored discussing this with you bc instead of having a discussions, you just keep refusing to admit that 1. AM, MM and JT scoring ONE goal in a playoffs series is unacceptable and 2. AM, MM and JT needs to be better bc what’s they had been doing in playoffs just not enough

 

[thusk]

I am kind of bored discussing this with you bc instead of having a discussions, you just keep refusing to admit that 1. AM, MM and JT scoring ONE goal in a playoffs series is unacceptable and 2. AM, MM and JT needs to be better bc what’s they had been doing in playoffs just not enough

number of game last 2 post season without marner /matthews duo goal or decisive play in a game: 4
0 win 4 loss

game of marner/matthews duo with at least 1 goal or decisive play: 14 8 win 6 loss

number of game with a least 1 goal of duo ? 9

7 win 2 loss

game without goal from matthews or marner ? 9game 1 win 8 loss

you can focus on matthews/marner production both or try to fins a way to help them and find a way to still win game when they dont litterally carry the team on their shoulder like every good team doing.

 

[Gabriel426]

number of game last 2 post season without marner /matthews duo goal or decisive play in a game: 4
0 win 4 loss

game of marner/matthews duo with at least 1 goal or decisive play: 14 8 win 6 loss

number of game with a least 1 goal of duo ? 9

7 win 2 loss

game without goal from matthews or marner ? 9game 1 win 8 loss

you can focus on matthews/marner production both or try to fins a way to help them and find a way to still win game when they dont litterally carry the team on their shoulder like every good team doing.

Number of goals scored in the Panthers series for AM, MM and JT=1 goal.
Number of goals scored in the Panthers series for the Leafs making 8mil or less=9 goals.

Like I said, I am getting bored but you seem like the type that needs the last words.

Just reply whatever and leave it as that.

 

[34]

Jones was awful tonight. This loss is on him.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Jones was due for a below average game (and probably a few more). Made some key saves to get the point at least

Didn't really mind his performance overall. Leafs had way too many unforced turnovers from poor clearing attempts

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Jones was due for a below average game (and probably a few more). Made some key saves to get the point at least

Didn't really mind his performance overall. Leafs had way too many unforced turnovers from poor clearing attempts

HE didn't get the point, the team got HIM the point.

HE cost them a point with the first 2 goals

 

[ACC1224]

Jones was due for a below average game (and probably a few more). Made some key saves to get the point at least

Didn't really mind his performance overall. Leafs had way too many unforced turnovers from poor clearing attempts

Yeah he was fine. Not his best game but lots of passengers tonight, got a point in spite of that.

 

[thusk]

Number of goals scored in the Panthers series for AM, MM and JT=1 goal.
Number of goals scored in the Panthers series for the Leafs making 8mil or less=9 goals.

Like I said, I am getting bored but you seem like the type that needs the last words.

Just reply whatever and leave it

leafs can play a high offensive style like edmonton doing with mcdavid, get basically over 2 pts game playing that way, they will still lost if they dont have goalie making save like its the case since 3 years... Unstead to lose 3-2, they will lose 6-5 5-4 and yes they will get pretty great stats on paper... but the result will be the same at the end... NHL team in modern hockey are just too good to win with only 3-4 player whatever how good they are.

the problem in Edmonton its not how mcdavid and draisaitl playing, its when they dont carry the team on their shoulder they cant win the same way than when marner/marthews cant carry leafs on their shoulder they losing.

losing 7-3 by being all offensive mod all game long or get 1 assist in a 1-0 win where you completly shutdowm top offensive weapon.

Wich one do you consider like a good game played? probably the 7-3 loss if i take in consideration what you saying... personally i prefer the guy with 1 assist but who helpede the team in different way.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

HE didn't get the point, the team got HIM the point.

HE cost them a point with the first 2 goals

First goal wasn't great because of the rebound, but second one was a good snipe. Didn't help that Nylander's stick got in the way which made it a harder read for Jones.

Leafs didn't lose because of Jones

 

[Maple Leaf]

i thogt jones was the savior

 

[Jacquestrapless]

Both goalies had a good season prior to this one as well. Both were also the Capitals tandem.