Leafs need to address the goaltending.

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Jones has been pretty good

He has, and we have needed it, but at the end of the day it is Martin Jones, I will never be fully comfortable with Martin Jones as the #1 guy, especially given that the current backup is an AHL kid in his first year in North America

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

All true, but isn't it about time you gave Jones some credit? I don't give a shit about last year, or the five before that, I only care what he is doing right now and at the moment he has provided the team with solid goaltending and he deserves credit for that. Who knows why he is playing so well, or how long it is going to last, but give the man his due for what he is doing right now. Were it not for him, this season would be over already.

As I've said he's been very very good but I'm never going to be comfortable with Martin Jones as the #1 goalie especially given that the current backup is an AHL kid in his first year in north America.

 

[HellasLEAF]

I am more than content, confident actually, going forward with the following for the foreseeable future. Will help immensely next season as well which will be tight in final year of JT contract:

Woll - $766,667
Jones - $875,00 (re-up small raise)
Hildeby - $843,333

The ROI on this trio will be exceptional. Do not sign or trade for any goaltending imo (unless Jones goes down or Woll is impacted by longterm injury can't foresee). Continue to develop from within and look to address the defence (more starved for impact D at the organizational level).

 

[Gary Nylund]

Unfortunately you can't just remove Samsonov's shit play, if you could this team would be at the top of the Atlantic easily, probably at the top of the east andem league.

I have no problem knowing that he's cost them AT LEAST 10 points

Keeping good players is generally a good idea.

LMAO, you're way off. Sammy's been very bad but his W/L record is 5-2. I'll even do the math for you - that's 10 out of a possible 14 points so yeah, you're going to have to pull some funky rabbits out of your hat to show how he's cost us AT LEAST 10 points.

Willy has peaked. Anyone with a reasonable sense of hockey IQ can sniff this reality out. And even with him at his peak we haven't wont jack shit. So here we are. handcuffed and hog tied until 2035 as being the joke of the hockey league. The place where mid players can go to get overpaid and treated like superstars without having accomplished anything.

Welcome to Toronto.

What a load of crapola. I know you're angry but that's no reason to completely lose touch with reality and treat your worst fears as facts.

He has, and we have needed it, but at the end of the day it is Martin Jones, I will never be fully comfortable with Martin Jones as the #1 guy, especially given that the current backup is an AHL kid in his first year in North America

You could put peak Hasek in our net and I still wouldn't be "fully comfortable" with this group of cupcakes masquerading as a team. Jones is killing it this year, having a veteran goalie playing the best hockey of his life as our #2 is pretty sweet. Woll is the #1 guy, he'll be back, and while he's a big question mark, I feel at least as good about our goalies this season than I have in the previous 7 playoffs with this core.

I am more than content, confident actually, going forward with the following for the foreseeable future. Will help immensely next season as well which will be tight in final year of JT contract:

Woll - $766,667
Jones - $875,00 (re-up small raise)
Hildeby - $843,333

The ROI on this trio will be exceptional. Do not sign or trade for any goaltending imo (unless Jones goes down or Woll is impacted by longterm injury can't foresee). Continue to develop from within and look to address the defence (more starved for impact D at the organizational level).

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

I look at baby Crosby cup win and the only real difference between their team and ours is a goalie. Actually our current roster is deeper than theirs. Top heavy that went clutch at the right time (Malkin 36 points, Crosby 31.....Guerin comes in 3rd with 15 lol). They didn't have a Campbell or Samsonov in net and their depth played with their hearts on their sleeve.

Without an above average goalie in the playoffs we blow our odds drastically. Dubas should be in jail going with Campbell Campbell Samsonov.

Priority no.1 is goaltending.

Hard to win in the playoffs when you don't score more than 2 goals. Goaltending was fine for most of the playoffs last year, but Leafs went 7 straight games scoring < 3 goals. Record was 2-5 because Samsonov stole game 6 vs TB and Woll stole game 4 vs FLA. You can go back to other elimination games (TB, MTL) when they couldn't score at all as well.

Simply getting some good goaltending might be enough especially if the core puts up points.

The bolded needs to happen for this team to have any success, along with getting non-zero production from the secondary pieces.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

LMAO, you're way off. Sammy's been very bad but his W/L record is 5-2. I'll even do the math for you - that's 10 out of a possible 14 points so yeah, you're going to have to pull some funky rabbits out of your hat to show how he's cost us AT LEAST 10 points.

Definitely not 10 points, but:
1 point @ CBJ
2 points @ BUF
1 point vs CBJ
1 point @ CHI
So maybe 5 points overall

Having said that, he got pulled early and bailed out of a loss in both Tampa games. It also took the team a historic comeback vs CBJ to avoid a regulation L and they came back late vs MTL to win.

Several comebacks by the team because they couldn't get a save in the first half of the game with Samsonov in net.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

LMAO, you're way off. Sammy's been very bad but his W/L record is 5-2. I'll even do the math for you - that's 10 out of a possible 14 points so yeah, you're going to have to pull some funky rabbits out of your hat to show how he's cost us AT LEAST 10 points.


What a load of crapola. I know you're angry but that's no reason to completely lose touch with reality and treat your worst fears as facts.

You could put peak Hasek in our net and I still wouldn't be "fully comfortable" with this group of cupcakes masquerading as a team. Jones is killing it this year, having a veteran goalie playing the best hockey of his life as our #2 is pretty sweet. Woll is the #1 guy, he'll be back, and while he's a big question mark, I feel at least as good about our goalies this season than I have in the previous 7 playoffs with this core.


I couldn't agree more.

His record is actually 5-2-6,

That's 6 points he lost in OT, 4 that he lost in regulation.

Last time I checked 6+4 = 10 there is your "funky Rabbit"

Given his save% yes HE lost those 10 points not the defense, an 862 save% is not a defense issue That's a goalie issue.

You talk about the defense yet Martin Jones has a 2.08 GAA and a 932 save% behind the EXACT same defense.

What does that tell you?

It should tell you Samsonov is dog shit.

 

[Gary Nylund]

His record is actually 5-2-6,

That's 6 points he lost in OT, 4 that he lost in regulation.

Last time I checked 6+4 = 10 there is your "funky Rabbit"

Given his save% yes HE lost those 10 points not the defense, an 862 save% is not a defense issue That's a goalie issue.

You talk about the defense yet Martin Jones has a 2.08 GAA and a 932 save% behind the EXACT same defense.

What does that tell you?

It should tell you Samsonov is dog shit.

Saying he cost us AT LEAST 10 points is hyperbole any way you slice it. We played a few good games as well, it's not like every loss is 100% his fault.

Yes he's been terrible this season, nobody is saying otherwise.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Saying he cost us AT LEAST 10 points is hyperbole any way you slice it. We played a few good games as well, it's not like every loss is 100% his fault.

Yes he's been terrible this season, nobody is saying otherwise.

When his save% is 862 then yes every loss is his fault.

I don't care who is on defense you can't allow 13.8% of shots to beat you.

So why did you lie about his record? because you DID lie about his record you can't just ignore 6 OT losses.

 

[Gabriel426]

His record is actually 5-2-6,

That's 6 points he lost in OT, 4 that he lost in regulation.

Last time I checked 6+4 = 10 there is your "funky Rabbit"

Given his save% yes HE lost those 10 points not the defense, an 862 save% is not a defense issue That's a goalie issue.

You talk about the defense yet Martin Jones has a 2.08 GAA and a 932 save% behind the EXACT same defense.

What does that tell you?

It should tell you Samsonov is dog shit.

I agree Sammy cost us points but what you are saying is Leafs would had been undefeated in the 13 games Sammy played. That’s could happen but highly unlikely.

 

[Gary Nylund]

When his save% is 862 then yes every loss is his fault.

I don't care who is on defense you can't allow 13.8% of shots to beat you.

So why did you lie about his record? because you DID lie about his record you can't just ignore 6 OT losses.

Is his save% 862 in every game? Think carefully before answering.

I just took a quick peek at hockey reference for the stats, my apologies. Doesn't change the fact that saying we'd be first in the East and he's cost us AL LEAST 10 points is insane.

 

[thusk]

Hard to win in the playoffs when you don't score more than 2 goals. Goaltending was fine for most of the playoffs last year, but Leafs went 7 straight games scoring < 3 goals. Record was 2-5 because Samsonov stole game 6 vs TB and Woll stole game 4 vs FLA. You can go back to other elimination games (TB, MTL) when they couldn't score at all as well.




The bolded needs to happen for this team to have any success, along with getting non-zero production from the secondary pieces.

hard to win in playoff wheb your goalie giving uo weak goal early in game and you need to come back on each game because he didn't made the work

or

losing a 2 goal lead because your goalie gave uo 2 weak goal and unstead of playing 2-0 forcing your opponent to take risk, youre now back at even

gm 5 vs mtl campbell gave up 2 weak goal so leafs had to come back from 3 goal.

gm 6 every goal campbell alowed was weak, especially ot goal who was a beach ball going in

gm 7, campbell gave up an othe weak goal

campbell gave up 6 weak goal in 3 game... you cant expect win that way

gm 5 vs tampa: was okay not good not bad

gm 6 vs tampa campbell gave up 2 weak goal

gm 71 weak goal

2023 gm 1 : it was the same samsonov we saw this season where every shot going in his direction was looking like a hard save.

gm 2: he had nothing to do

gm 3 : gave up a weak goal but play a solid game when they started the 3rd period

gm 4 was not good or bad

gm 5 he gave 1 weak

gm 6 he stole it

gm 1 and 2 vs florida gave up 2 weak goal on each gm

gm 3-4-5 goalie was good, n9t great but not bad

ps gm 4 Woll didn't stole it, leafs just gave up nothing defensivly in that one

last 2 playoff number of game goalie cost
campbell 5
samsonov 3

number of game stole by goalie : 1

so game stole/cost by goalie last 3, leafs are at -7, its pretty hard to overcome at least 2 lost because your goaltending every series you are playing

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I agree Sammy cost us points but what you are saying is Leafs would had been undefeated in the 13 games Sammy played. That’s could happen but highly unlikely.

According to hockey DB he's actually played 15 games so his record doesn't even add up.

I assume Woll was pulled once but I don't remember it.

I'm assuming the other one is the night Woll got hurt.

 

[Gabriel426]

hard to win in playoff wheb your goalie giving uo weak goal early in game and you need to come back on each game because he didn't made the work

or

losing a 2 goal lead because your goalie gave uo 2 weak goal and unstead of playing 2-0 forcing your opponent to take risk, youre now back at even

gm 5 vs mtl campbell gave up 2 weak goal so leafs had to come back from 3 goal.

gm 6 every goal campbell alowed was weak, especially ot goal who was a beach ball going in

gm 7, campbell gave up an othe weak goal

campbell gave up 6 weak goal in 3 game... you cant expect win that way

gm 5 vs tampa: was okay not great not bad

gm 6 vs tampa campbell gave up 2 weak goal

gm 71 weak goal

2023 gm 1 : it was the same samsonov we saw this season where every shot going in his direction was looking like a hard save.

gm 2: he had nothing to do

gm 3 : gave up a weak goal but play a solid game when they started the 3rd period

gm 4 was not good or bad

gm 5 he gave 1 weak

gm 6 he stole it

gm 1 and 2 vs florida gave up 2 weak goal on each gm

gm 3-4-5 goalie was good, n9t great but not bad

ps gm 4 Woll didn't stole it, leafs just gave up nothing defensivly in that one

last 2 playoff number of game goalie cost
campbell 5
samsonov 3

number of game stole by goalie : 1

so game stole/cost by goalie last 3, leafs are at -7, its pretty hard to overcome at least 2 lost because your goaltending every series you are playing

Goalie giving up weak goals and forwards not scoring are two different things.

I understand teams with lead will shut down and don’t take chances and make it tougher for opposing team to score, but that doesn’t justify opposing team not scoring.

Also, you can’t just chalk up playoffs Win as goalies had nothing to do or Leafs D played great and didn’t give up nothing.

I agree Leafs needs better goaltending but if AM, MM and JT combined for ONE goal in 5 playoffs games, that’s just not good enough.

According to hockey DB he's actually played 15 games so his record doesn't even add up.

I assume Woll was pulled once but I don't remember it.

I'm assuming the other one is the night Woll got hurt.

I think Sammy got pulled two games and the Leafs won at the end. Think it was Jones who replaced the injured Woll.

 

[thusk]

Goalie giving up weak goals and forwards not scoring are two different things.

I understand teams with lead will shut down and don’t take chances and make it tougher for opposing team to score, but that doesn’t justify opposing team not scoring.

Also, you can’t just chalk up playoffs Win as goalies had nothing to do or Leafs D played great and didn’t give up nothing.

I agree Leafs needs better goaltending but if AM, MM and JT combined for ONE goal in 5 playoffs games, that’s just not good enough.


I think Sammy got pulled two games and the Leafs won at the end. Think it was Jones who replaced the injured Woll.

if you only expecting to win game like 4-3, 5-4 n playoff... good luck youre gonna loose over 95% of the time

you need to be able to win game 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-1, 3-2... but if your goalie giving up 2 weak goal every game, how it is possible?

 

[Gabriel426]

if you only expecting to win game like 4-3, 5-4 n playoff... good luck youre gonna loose over 95% of the time

you need to be able to win game 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-1, 3-2... but if your goalie giving up 2 weak goal every game, how it is possible?

I am not saying our goalies were great, bc they were not. What I am saying is that our top producers, our highest paid players didn't produce either. It is not either or BUT it is both. Leafs need better goaltending and our top three money guys- AM, MM, and JT need to score more than ONE goal or 10% of the team goals in a playoff series. Both things can be true at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. Unless in your mind, Leafs only need to win 1-0 for 16 games in the playoffs thus only needing 16 goals as long as the goalie didn't let in any in 16 games.

 

[thusk]

I am not saying our goalies were great, bc they were not. What I am saying is that our top producers, our highest paid players didn't produce either. It is not either or BUT it is both. Leafs need better goaltending and our top three money guys- AM, MM, and JT need to score more than ONE goal or 10% of the team goals in a playoff series. Both things can be true at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. Unless in your mind, Leafs only need to win 1-0 for 16 games in the playoffs thus only needing 16 goals as long as the goalie didn't let in any in 16 games.

since 2021/22/23 playoff
AM/ MM/ JT/ WN / rielly scored 55.3% of every b 5v5 leafs goal ( and jt missed habs series) j

21/22/23 playoff
stamkos/ point/ kucherov /palat/hedman
38.4% tampa 5v5 goal

21/22
mackinnon/ rantanen/ landeskog/kadri/makar 40,5% 5v5 goal

you has the fact leafs goalie struggle... how much more do you really want to put onleafs core shoulder.

 

[Gabriel426]

since 2021/22/23 playoff
AM/ MM/ JT/ WN / rielly scored 55.3% of every b 5v5 leafs goal ( and jt missed habs series) j

21/22/23 playoff
stamkos/ point/ kucherov /palat/hedman
38.4% tampa 5v5 goal

20/21
mackinnon/ rantanen/ landeskog/kadri/makar 40,5% 5v5 goal

you has the fact leafs goalie struggle... how much more do you really want to put onleafs core shoulder.

Now lets do top three highest paid players, which are AM, MM and JT.
And how many goal did they score in the Panthers series and how many did the rest of the team scored. Don't bother looking it up, they got ONE goal and the rest of the team got NINE goals, which is 10% of the total offensive output. Bennett, Barkov and Tkachuk got THREE goals and the rest of the Panthers got 14 goals. Thats 21.4% goals scored by Panthers top Three.

You lumped Willie and Reilly into the group to make your point, which is fair but AM, JT and MM makes a combine salary of over 33mil you add Willie and Reilly, thats 46mil. If you are going to compare other teams players, then you make the salaries equal instead of just throwing their best 5 players.

Whether you like it or not, usually a player's salary reflect on their abilities, skills, exps....
At the end of the day, each NHL team got the same cap number to form their team. Yes, some teams manipulate the system by sending picks or prospects to other teams to have players retention or put players on LTIR, BUT all teams can do that as long as they take the risks or willing to give away picks.

Our top guys had been losing or being shut down by players making less money than them every single playoffs. As AM, JT and MM are in the top 10 of highest paid salaries in the NHL. They are supposed to outperform 6 players making 5mil/yr and thats only 30mil.

Point is that due to their salaries, if AM, MM, JT, Willie and Reilly plays equal to or slightly better than the other team top 4 forwards and No.1 Dman, it is going to be hard for the rest of the team to play as good as the rest of the opposing team, as the opposing team players will most likely always have better players than the Leafs due to having higher paid players.

Stamkos, Point, Kuch, Hedman and Palat in 2021-22, as Palat was not even on TB last season made 40.675mil combined. Actually that number is 2mil less in 21 b/c Point was making 6.75mil. 40.675mil is 0.675mil more than AM, JT, MM and Willie.
The Avs brunch combined for 36.25mil, thats close to 4mil less than AM, JT, MM and Willie.

You can defend our top guys all you want but they need to be a lot better in order for the Leafs to have any success in the playoffs and win the Cup. Same thing applies to our goalies and our depth. BUT it all starts from the top. The Top guys need to lead and thats why they are getting paid the big money.
The fact that 10.893mil can cover the salary of Woll or Jones, Gregor, Calle, Domi, Kampf, Benoit, and Gio, which is our goalie, 3rd line, 4C and bottom pairing shows how much a guy like MM needs to be count on to produce offence and lead the charge. BC I am sure the oppposing team would most likely have better 3rd line, goalie, 4C and bottom pairing based on salaries distribution.

 

[AcerComputer]

A sound mind should keep Jones and Woll and let Sammy have an early offseason starting in JAN. However, unless all the Sammy's AHL training plans were lip service, I will not be surprised if the Leafs trade Jones for a 3rd round (there is no way he will clear the waiver now) after Sammy has shown signs of improvement.

Jones doesn't need to clear waivers again as long as they send him down within 30 days of his recall.

 

[Enniskillen]

Murray will rise from ashes and will win two rounds for the Leafs this year.

 

[thusk]

Now lets do top three highest paid players, which are AM, MM and JT.
And how many goal did they score in the Panthers series and how many did the rest of the team scored. Don't bother looking it up, they got ONE goal and the rest of the team got NINE goals, which is 10% of the total offensive output. Bennett, Barkov and Tkachuk got THREE goals and the rest of the Panthers got 14 goals. Thats 21.4% goals scored by Panthers top Three.

You lumped Willie and Reilly into the group to make your point, which is fair but AM, JT and MM makes a combine salary of over 33mil you add Willie and Reilly, thats 46mil. If you are going to compare other teams players, then you make the salaries equal instead of just throwing their best 5 players.

Whether you like it or not, usually a player's salary reflect on their abilities, skills, exps....
At the end of the day, each NHL team got the same cap number to form their team. Yes, some teams manipulate the system by sending picks or prospects to other teams to have players retention or put players on LTIR, BUT all teams can do that as long as they take the risks or willing to give away picks.

Our top guys had been losing or being shut down by players making less money than them every single playoffs. As AM, JT and MM are in the top 10 of highest paid salaries in the NHL. They are supposed to outperform 6 players making 5mil/yr and thats only 30mil.

Point is that due to their salaries, if AM, MM, JT, Willie and Reilly plays equal to or slightly better than the other team top 4 forwards and No.1 Dman, it is going to be hard for the rest of the team to play as good as the rest of the opposing team, as the opposing team players will most likely always have better players than the Leafs due to having higher paid players.

Stamkos, Point, Kuch, Hedman and Palat in 2021-22, as Palat was not even on TB last season made 40.675mil combined. Actually that number is 2mil less in 21 b/c Point was making 6.75mil. 40.675mil is 0.675mil more than AM, JT, MM and Willie.
The Avs brunch combined for 36.25mil, thats close to 4mil less than AM, JT, MM and Willie.

You can defend our top guys all you want but they need to be a lot better in order for the Leafs to have any success in the playoffs and win the Cup. Same thing applies to our goalies and our depth. BUT it all starts from the top. The Top guys need to lead and thats why they are getting paid the big money.
The fact that 10.893mil can cover the salary of Woll or Jones, Gregor, Calle, Domi, Kampf, Benoit, and Gio, which is our goalie, 3rd line, 4C and bottom pairing shows how much a guy like MM needs to be count on to produce offence and lead the charge. BC I am sure the oppposing team would most likely have better 3rd line, goalie, 4C and bottom pairing based on salaries distribution.

their absolutly ZERO team in NHL build to overcome 1 to 3 weak goal everygame...sorry thats the reality

and how do you want to play with confidence when your goalie give softies goal and your opposite G who playing as his top level. How do you want to take offensive risk when you do.nt even know if your goalie will make basic save..

just watch this season, its a great exemple... sorry leafs didn't played the same way when samsonov was in front the net than when it was Woll or Jones... its the same thing in playoff. bad goaltending can affect the way everyone will playing, affecting every part of the game.

 

[Fogelhund]

When his save% is 862 then yes every loss is his fault.

I don't care who is on defense you can't allow 13.8% of shots to beat you.

So why did you lie about his record? because you DID lie about his record you can't just ignore 6 OT losses.

Categorically false. There were quite a few games, where it wouldn't have mattered who was in net, we had a terrible stretch of play, and would have lost anyway... maybe would have lost by less, but this is a team game, and while Samsonov wasn't good, the team in front of him was often worse.

 

[Racer88]

I don’t think we need a pie chart to see how crappy Matthews,Marner and Tavares have been in the playoffs the last 7 years

 

[Gabriel426]

their absolutly ZERO team in NHL build to overcome 1 to 3 weak goal everygame...sorry thats the reality

and how do you want to play with confidence when your goalie give softies goal and your opposite G who playing as his top level. How do you want to take offensive risk when you do.nt even know if your goalie will make basic save..

just watch this season, its a great exemple... sorry leafs didn't played the same way when samsonov was in front the net than when it was Woll or Jones... its the same thing in playoff. bad goaltending can affect the way everyone will playing, affecting every part of the game.

There is also no team that can overcome their top three highest paid players and forwards scoring ONE goal or 10% of goals in a playoff series.

I am not saying our goaltending is great bc they are not over the past few seasons but to say that our top three are doing their jobs and didn’t let the Leafs down is just wrong.

Like I said, both things can be true at the same time. If you believe that our top three highest paid players are pulling their weights and are playoffs warriors and leaders, that’s good for you.

I don’t think we need a pie chart to see how crappy Matthews,Marner and Tavares have been in the playoffs the last 7 years

Apparently some here believe that they are doing great and it was the rest of the team that let them down.

 

[colchar]

As I've said he's been very very good but I'm never going to be comfortable with Martin Jones as the #1 goalie especially given that the current backup is an AHL kid in his first year in north America.

Him being the #1 is the exact reason they need to bring in someone else with NHL experience. Having an experienced backup is a far better plan than having a backup who only has 15 games of North American experience, with none of those at the NHL level. If Jones falters or gets hurt, they have an experienced guy who can step in. Once Woll comes back they can sort out the extra goalie situation then. It is an almost 100% guarantee that Edmonton will need one then, so maybe they can work out a trade with them.