Leafs need to address the goaltending.

[Egghead1999]

I'll have what who says MAF gets a 1st's having. I remember MAF got a 3rd (??) last time. Taking Sammy is not worth that much.
BTW, is it just me or will the Leafs ride Jone ALONE until Sammy is back?

 

[Sypher04]

It’s kinda insane that samsonov is 3.94GAA and .862 save percentage this year and we still managed to get points out 11 of 13 of his results. 5-2-6.

I'll have what who says MAF gets a 1st's having. I remember MAF got a 3rd (??) last time. Taking Sammy is not worth that much.
BTW, is it just me or will the Leafs ride Jone ALONE until Sammy is back?

I’m far from convinced Samsonov will be back.

 

[colchar]

4 teams have the same issues

I don't give a rat's ass about other teams, I only care about the Leafs.

Can you wait and see what Hildeby is all about

Yeah sure, let's put everything on a guy who has played a grand total of 15 games in North America, and none at the NHL level. Brilliant idea, just genius.

he is going to play 4 games.

You have no idea what he is or isn't going to play.

When Woll comes back and there are problems then iam sure the Leafs will do something about it .

Might be too little too late. And the issue is now - if Jones gets hurt they have nobody with NHL experience to take his place except Sammy whose brain is broken.

If Mathew's or Nylander went down we don't have a replacement for them I shouldn't have to explain THAT TO YOU.

We don't have other forwards?

Are you really so thick that you don't understand that they have other players with NHL experience who can cover for them while they are injured, but that they don't have anyone with NHL experience to cover for Jones if he gets hurt? How can you not understand that? Or are you just choosing to ignore it in a pathetic attempt to stick to your incredibly flawed position?

This. There's no clear cut upgrades that are available. Do not waste assets on a goaltender. Stick with Woll and Jones for now and solidify the defense to help insulate our goaltenders.

There is no Woll right now, there is only Jones. If he gets hurt they are screwed. Why is that so damned difficult for some of you to grasp?

 

[Ciao]

Goaltending and starting pitching can drive you right around the bend.

That's not to say that I would never want to trade for a top-tier starting goaltender, but in most cases you're really never quite sure what you're getting.

You don't have to look too far to see Rangers' fans calling their starter "Shitsterkin" now and again, and he's probably one of the best goaltenders in the NHL at present.

In a salary-cap world such as the NHL, I think the only way you get a topline first-class goaltender is to grow your own.

If the Leafs could imitate the Los Angeles Dodgers and blow everyone away with a free-agent offer on a generational player, then maybe you could get one through free agency, but the NHL's salary-cap system just doesn't allow that.

Furthermore, the last time I remember a prime-time Hall of Fame goaltender moving in a trade was when Patrick Roy had his fill of the Habs – and it would be pretty hard to predict something like that happening again any time soon.

I would have absolutely no interest in Marc Andre Fleury. Maybe in 2004, but not in 2024.

There is no other goaltender on the market that moves the needle for me.

Even if the Leafs' management gave up their left nut and their firstborn son to acquire the best starter they could find, the question is are you getting Shesterkin or "Shitsterkin", and the same goes for pretty much every other goalie not named Ken Dryden, Patrick Roy or Martin Brodeur.

I'm good with Jones as an over-performing journeyman on a short-term basis, and for the long-term future of the Leafs holding on to see what some combination of Woll, Hildeby, Petruzelli and any other rabbits they can pull out of a hat might do.

After all, where do all these star goaltenders come from? Picks and prospects, that's where. Not normally from trades for another team's expendable goods.

BTW, Ken Dryden had six games of NHL experience before starting the 1971 Stanley Cup playoffs where the Habs won the Stanley Cup and he won the Conn Smythe Trophy, and was still rookie of the year the following year.

 

[colchar]

The only solution you've come up with for a goaltender is a 39 year old, having a bad season. You know there aren't many good goalies in the league who are an upgrade on Woll and Jones. There's only about 10 good starters and everyone else is just average or just below. So why exactly are you wanting to waste assets on a move that is most likely a lateral?

Why do you keep talking about Woll? He is hurt, they need insurance while he is out.

Lets just say Markstrom is available. You put him behind a weak defense like ours has been for most of the season. One that gives up a lot of grade A chances. It s not going to have as big an impact as it would be to get some top 4 defendersin here.

So a goalie who plays 60 minutes doesn't have as big an impact as a defenceman who plays 10-20 minutes?

A goaltender is only as good as the team in front of him.

That is an oversimplification. Hell, last night's Leafs game should tell you that.

Goaltending and starting pitching can drive you right around the bend.

That's not to say that I would never want to trade for a top-tier starting goaltender, but in most cases you're really never quite sure what you're getting.

You don't have to look too far to see Rangers' fans calling their starter "Shitsterkin" now and again, and he's probably one of the best goaltenders in the NHL at present.

In a salary-cap world such as the NHL, I think the only way you get a topline first-class goaltender is to grow your own.

If the Leafs could imitate the Los Angeles Dodgers and blow everyone away with a free-agent offer on a generational player, then maybe you could get one through free agency, but the NHL's salary-cap system just doesn't allow that.

Furthermore, the last time I remember a prime-time Hall of Fame goaltender moving in a trade was when Patrick Roy had his fill of the Habs – and it would be pretty hard to predict something like that happening again any time soon.

I would have absolutely no interest in Marc Andre Fleury. Maybe in 2004, but not in 2024.

There is no other goaltender on the market that moves the needle for me.

Even if the Leafs' management gave up their left nut and their firstborn son to acquire the best starter they could find, the question is are you getting Shesterkin or "Shitsterkin", and the same goes for pretty much every other goalie not named Ken Dryden, Patrick Roy or Martin Brodeur.

I'm good with Jones as an over-performing journeyman on a short-term basis, and for the long-term future of the Leafs holding on to see what some combination of Woll, Hildeby, Petruzelli and any other rabbits they can pull out of a hat might do.

After all, where do all these star goaltenders come from? Picks and prospects, that's where. Not normally from trades for another team's expendable goods.

Nobody is talking about picking up a star, ffs. People are talking about picking up serviceable insurance because if Jones gets hurt they are f***ed.

 

[Srsly]

I'll have what who says MAF gets a 1st's having. I remember MAF got a 3rd (??) last time. Taking Sammy is not worth that much.
BTW, is it just me or will the Leafs ride Jone ALONE until Sammy is back?

I think they'll give the kid some time after Jones cools down but will probably ride him until he has an off game, rather than put pressure on a prospect that isn't ready yet.

Jones has been solid and its his net to lose at the moment. The guy is somehow sporting a 930 save percentage and has the most experience in our system. With Woll being due back this month it might actually make sense to keep playing him and then let those two duke it out for the starting position. Samsonov on the other hand, has to really perform in the minors before he shows he's ready to challenge either goaltender for their respective position. Thats just the reality of it, in my personal opinion.

 

[Ciao]

I think they'll give the kid some time after Jones cools down but will probably ride him until he has an off game, rather than put pressure on a prospect that isn't ready yet.

Jones has been solid and its his net to lose at the moment. The guy is somehow sporting a 930 save percentage and has the most experience in our system. With Woll being due back this month it might actually make sense to keep playing him and then let those two duke it out for the starting position. Samsonov on the other hand, has to really perform in the minors before he shows he's ready to challenge either goaltender for their respective position. Thats just the reality of it, in my personal opinion.

I like this approach.

There is no need to overthink things. Your third string goaltender is playing well? Then let him play. Why complicate it?

 

[horner]

I never said they wouldn't ask, every negotiation, no matter what it is starts with everybody involved asking for to much, then negotiations happen and You meet somewhere in the middle.

It's very possible they start out asking for a 1st but nobody is doing thatnot just the Leafs, nobody is doing that for MAF at this point.

In a bigger trade maybe.

But for MAF alone? I don't think he can get a 1st from any team.

You said they would have to take Sammy as well they won't do that for free .
Sammy is dead weight.

 

[horner]

Honestly


Truthfully I don't care who.

But if I HAD to pick a name MAF would be on my list for sure.

He's not having a great year himself but his numbers are still MILES better than Samsonov.

As for how? Well you ask Minnesota what additional assets they would need to take Samsonov because Samsonov would need to be part of a deal.

Your original post I was replying to
If you were Minnesota's GM what would you ask for
Sammy + ?
For
MAF

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You said they would have to take Sammy as well they won't do that for free .
Sammy is dead weight.

Who said anything about doing it for free?

There is a BIG difference between free and 1st round pick

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Far more important to resign Willy and fix our D then waste CAP space on a tender .. Woll will be fine for playoffs .. and an outside chance Sammy gets over his mental health issues and returns back to last years form .. much less hope for Murray which seems like a dream to me .. in interim Jones is holding serve and getting us wins .. Hildabeast well who knows but best he gets a game or two and then returns to farm

 

[HellasLEAF]

If only the Leafs could find a veteran, experienced NHL goalie who is capable of playing steady and solid during the regular season whilst the Leafs wait on Woll to return and explore options. Also if said goalie could make say under 1 million would be even better.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I don't give a rat's ass about other teams, I only care about the Leafs.



Yeah sure, let's put everything on a guy who has played a grand total of 15 games in North America, and none at the NHL level. Brilliant idea, just genius.




You have no idea what he is or isn't going to play.




Might be too little too late. And the issue is now - if Jones gets hurt they have nobody with NHL experience to take his place except Sammy whose brain is broken.



We don't have other forwards?

Are you really so thick that you don't understand that they have other players with NHL experience who can cover for them while they are injured, but that they don't have anyone with NHL experience to cover for Jones if he gets hurt? How can you not understand that? Or are you just choosing to ignore it in a pathetic attempt to stick to your incredibly flawed position?




There is no Woll right now, there is only Jones. If he gets hurt they are screwed. Why is that so damned difficult for some of you to grasp?

Because we are going to make the playoffs regardless of Woll being out for a few weeks. It's not the end of the world and no reason to go out and waste assets to get a stop gap just because people don't want Sammy back in or an AHL goalie for a few more games.

Like someone else had mentioned earlier, if we acquire someone else and Woll comes back, we have to send Jones back down. He will get claimed and we've wasted assets for nothing

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Why do you keep talking about Woll? He is hurt, they need insurance while he is out.



So a goalie who plays 60 minutes doesn't have as big an impact as a defenceman who plays 10-20 minutes?




That is an oversimplification. Hell, last night's Leafs game should tell you that.




Nobody is talking about picking up a star, ffs. People are talking about picking up serviceable insurance because if Jones gets hurt they are f***ed.

You've missed the point. If you put a star goalie behind a shit team that gives up a lot of grade A chances, it doesn't change anything. If you put even an average goalie behind a stacked defensive squad, they can make any goalie look good, hence my Vegas example.

If you are referring to Dostal, that means nothing. There are lots of examples of goalies playing out of their mind for a night but it shouldn't be expected as the norm. If you expect your goalie to be able to perform like that all the time behind a ton of shots, expect an injury. Like Woll against Ottawa.

 

[horner]

Who said anything about doing it for free?

There is a BIG difference between free and 1st round pick

So if you were the Minnesota GM what would you ask for considering we don't have 2nd rd pk , no 1st or 2nd next yr
For them to take Sammy and trade MFA to us ?

 

[Ciao]

You've missed the point. If you put a star goalie behind a shit team that gives up a lot of grade A chances, it doesn't change anything. If you put even an average goalie behind a stacked defensive squad, they can make any goalie look good, hence my Vegas example.

Felix Potvin looked very good playing for Pat Burns.

Burns' teams really knew how to clear the puck out of their own end. It was quite impressive. I miss that.

 

[Stephen]

If only the Leafs could find a veteran, experienced NHL goalie who is capable of playing steady and solid during the regular season whilst the Leafs wait on Woll to return and explore options. Also if said goalie could make say under 1 million would be even better.

Halak.

 

[Evilhomer]

Because we are going to make the playoffs regardless of Woll being out for a few weeks. It's not the end of the world and no reason to go out and waste assets to get a stop gap just because people don't want Sammy back in or an AHL goalie for a few more games.

Like someone else had mentioned earlier, if we acquire someone else and Woll comes back, we have to send Jones back down. He will get claimed and we've wasted assets for nothing

This seems pretty obvious to me. The Leafs aren't going to waste assets and cap space to acquire another goalie. Jones is perfectly fine until Woll is back.

 

[tp71]

Yeah sure, let's put everything on a guy who has played a grand total of 15 games in North America, and none at the NHL level. Brilliant idea, just genius.

Felix Potvin played a grand total of 40 games in the AHL before getting the call and taking over as the #1 netminder at age 21. 40.

Everyone has to start at game 1 sometime. The worst case is, you find out hes not ready, and he goes back. Best case, hes Potvin 2.0. Whats the harm in seeing him for a couple games and deciding then?

 

[ACC1224]

I can see Jones being the starter by the playoffs.

Looking more likely by the day.

 

[Zonk]

The table below shows the top 50 goaltenders who have played a minimum of 10 games ranked by save percentage as of January 5th, 2024. The Leafs have two goalies in the top 16. Woll is currently injured, but he will return. How many other teams, including cup contenders, would be very happy to be in this situation?

Good managers recognize when there is a risky situation, but also know not to make a bad situation worse. There is a risk that both Woll and Jones could be injured at the same time. This would absolutely sink the Leafs hopes. But this risk is only a possibility. And Woll is expected back in late January or February.

Is there anyone who disagrees with the position that the Leafs need to upgrade their defense to be a cup contender? Their current defense is adequate for the regular season, but will not win four rounds in the playoffs.

The suggestion of trading assets for the 45th ranked goaltender seems bizarre. The Leafs have meager assets that they cannot afford to spend on a solution to a temporary problem and leave the long-term issue of a weak defense unattended. Good management will ride out the Woll injury and spend their assets more wisely on the longer term weakness.

	Player	Team	GP	Sv%	GAA
1	Adin Hill	VGK	15	0.93	1.93
2	Martin Jones	TOR	10	0.93	2.20
3	Charlie Lindgren	WSH	15	0.93	2.27
4	Cam Talbot	LAK	25	0.93	2.10
5	Joey Daccord	SEA	24	0.92	2.29
6	Jeremy Swayman	BOS	19	0.92	2.43
7	Connor Hellebuyck	WPG	28	0.92	2.28
8	Alex Lyon	DET	11	0.92	2.56
9	Thatcher Demko	VAN	27	0.92	2.47
10	Linus Ullmark	BOS	19	0.92	2.72
11	Semyon Varlamov	NYI	14	0.92	2.78
12	Anthony Stolarz	FLA	10	0.92	2.05
13	Casey DeSmith	VAN	12	0.92	2.58
14	Alex Nedeljkovic	PIT	13	0.92	2.62
15	Jonathan Quick	NYR	13	0.92	2.41
16	Joseph Woll	TOR	15	0.92	2.80
17	Connor Ingram	ARI	23	0.92	2.61
18	Sergei Bobrovsky	FLA	29	0.91	2.39
19	Tristan Jarry	PIT	25	0.91	2.58
20	Carter Hart	PHI	21	0.91	2.66
21	Ilya Sorokin	NYI	26	0.91	3.10
22	Joel Hofer	STL	14	0.91	2.76
23	Igor Shesterkin	NYR	24	0.91	2.75
24	Jacob Markstrom	CGY	22	0.91	2.65
25	Elvis Merzlikins	CBJ	23	0.91	3.25
26	Ivan Prosvetov	COL	10	0.91	2.84
27	Karel Vejmelka	ARI	17	0.91	3.01
28	John Gibson	ANA	24	0.90	2.96
29	Pyotr Kochetkov	CAR	21	0.90	2.53
30	Samuel Ersson	PHI	17	0.90	2.50
31	Sam Montembeault	MTL	17	0.90	2.94
32	Petr Mrazek	CHI	25	0.90	3.27
33	Filip Gustavsson	MIN	22	0.90	2.95
34	Andrei Vasilevskiy	TBL	17	0.90	2.83
35	Jordan Binnington	STL	27	0.90	3.14
36	Jake Oettinger	DAL	21	0.90	2.93
37	Lukas Dostal	ANA	16	0.90	3.53
38	Logan Thompson	VGK	23	0.90	2.87
39	Kevin Lankinen	NSH	11	0.90	3.15
40	Juuse Saros	NSH	31	0.90	3.01
41	Kaapo Kahkonen	SJS	19	0.90	3.54
42	Jake Allen	MTL	14	0.90	3.52
43	Scott Wedgewood	DAL	17	0.90	3.11
44	Alexandar Georgiev	COL	32	0.90	2.93
45	Marc-Andre Fleury	MIN	17	0.90	3.09
46	Stuart Skinner	EDM	26	0.90	2.83
47	Darcy Kuemper	WSH	19	0.89	3.15
48	Devon Levi	BUF	18	0.89	3.22
49	Akira Schmid	NJD	15	0.89	3.26
50	Ville Husso	DET	18	0.89	3.53

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Felix Potvin played a grand total of 40 games in the AHL before getting the call and taking over as the #1 netminder at age 21. 40.

Everyone has to start at game 1 sometime. The worst case is, you find out hes not ready, and he goes back. Best case, hes Potvin 2.0. Whats the harm in seeing him for a couple games and deciding then?

Potvin

Your original post I was replying to
If you were Minnesota's GM what would you ask for
Sammy + ?
For
MAF

Obviously It don't know what the + is but It's not a 1st that's not realistic he's never gotten a 1st, including the year after he won the Vezina, but at 39 he's getting a 1st?

No, No he's not that's not realistic regardless of Samsonov being in the deal.

 

[Stephen]

Felix Potvin played a grand total of 40 games in the AHL before getting the call and taking over as the #1 netminder at age 21. 40.

Everyone has to start at game 1 sometime. The worst case is, you find out hes not ready, and he goes back. Best case, hes Potvin 2.0. Whats the harm in seeing him for a couple games and deciding then?

Potvin actually won the AHL rookie of the year and goalie of the year in 1991-92 the previous season, even though he played in only 35 games in St. John's. I think they went on a playoff run vs Adirondack as well, as Potvin once commented on how he played the Wings in the playoffs back to back years. He also had a 4 game call up in 1992 before the 1993 season.

So I'd say Potvin got a lot more seasoning and development in those 35 games than Hildeby's 15 in the AHL to start this season. But like you said, have to start game one some time.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Signing Martin Jones might have saved our season.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Looking more likely by the day.

It's January