Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose the opener 4-3

[saffronleaf]

didn't like holden caufield in high school and still don't like him

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yeah.. agenda pushing. Like Holl's negative IQ pass in the offensive zone that led to the Habs rush and winning goal.

Muzzin all of a sudden looked fine when they paired Brodie with him instead of Holl. They need to bring that pairing back again.

So you are going to hang on to the worst play (and arguably only truly poor play) Holl made all game and ignore the fact that he was strong the rest of the game?

Muzzin is dragging down the pairing, just like he was dragging down every pairing he was on last year. Brodie was better away from Muzzin. Holl was better away from Muzzin. Liljegren was better away from Muzzin. Part of it was probably usage too, but Holl and Brodie were still getting tough usage away from Muzzin and their numbers (both underlying and absolute) were significantly better than when they were with Muzzin (Holl, for example, was +9 away from Muzzin vs. -8 with him).

Leafs fans just like to **** on Holl by biasing their opinions towards his worst moments, which are a small subset of his overall play and completely underrates his overall contributions to this team.

 

[dubplatepressure]

So you are going to hang on to the worst play (and arguably only truly poor play) Holl made all game and ignore the fact that he was strong the rest of the game?

Muzzin is dragging down the pairing, just like he was dragging down every pairing he was on last year. Brodie was better away from Muzzin. Holl was better away from Muzzin. Liljegren was better away from Muzzin. Part of it was probably usage too, but Holl and Brodie were still getting tough usage away from Muzzin and their numbers (both underlying and absolute) were significantly better than when they were with Muzzin (Holl, for example, was +9 away from Muzzin vs. -8 with him).

Leafs fans just like to **** on Holl by biasing their opinions towards his worst moments, which are a small subset of his overall play and completely underrates his overall contributions to this team.

If his worst moments cause goals against then how important is it that the remainder of the game he played well? Holl has been this way off and on for most of his career. Good for stretches, bad for bits. The bad bits tends to cost us dearly. This isn’t all on Holl - but these guys need to play 60m.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I don't get it.

This team actually got it right for once during the point last season where they removed Holl and paired up Rielly with someone who could clear the crease in Lyubushkin and Muzzin with Brodie for an actual functioning shutdown pairing. Gio-Lilly was icing on the cake.

But they just decide to go backwards on the D again with pairings that clearly don't work anymore. I get it Rielly is amazing at a lot of things but good grief is his man-to-man D terrible some games. Muzzin-Holl is a complete shipwreck of a pairing that they just love to keep putting together.

Except Lyubushkin wasn't even good at what he was supposed to do (clearing the net and board play) outside of hitting people. Although the sample size is a fair bit smaller, Rielly was much better with Holl.

 

[KingJoffrey]

Kyle "Dubler" Dubas ladies and gentleman.

 

[Racer88]

What bugs me more than anything with this team is that they weren't up for game. Where was the passion? This is the f***ing Habs! They are f***ing rivals. They beat you not too long ago in a playoff series. This is f***ing something. Get angry. Wake up.

This has been a problem with this group for a number of years now

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If his worst moments cause goals against then how important is it that the remainder of the game he played well? Holl has been this way off and on for most of his career. Good for stretches, bad for bits. The bad bits tends to cost us dearly. This isn’t all on Holl - but these guys need to play 60m.

Really not as much as people think, they just are highlighted more.

We can look at last season for example. At the beginning of the season (for the first 8 games), it was rough. That was hardly exclusive to him (Marner only had like one point in that stretch for example) but he was benched for a couple of games in the end of October and came back at the beginning of November.

After that scratching at the beginning of the season, he had a 2.53 GA/60 at ES the rest of the way (60+ games) which was better than anyone except Dermott and Sandin (both played in sheltered roles). Out of 168 eligible defensemen who played at least 750 minutes from that point on, Holl was 58th in GA/60 and a good number of the guys ahead of him were guys like Dermott and Sandin (i.e. not playing nearly as tough of a role as he was).

It wasn't like he was getting saved by goaltending either... His xGA/60 was 2.32 which was only beat by Giordano, Liljegren, and Sandin. In the playoffs, it was 1.64 GA/60 with a 1.99 xGA/60 in 5 games.

So yes, he does make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes lead to goals against. Same can be said about literally every defenseman in the NHL. I will take being good for the vast majority of the game and occasionally making costly mistakes when the overall bulk of his work results in him being a major net positive. Especially out of a 2 mill RD who is a high end PKer and plays 20+ tough minutes a night.

 

[All Mod Cons]

That was unfortunately a pretty sloppy game all around. Keefe is fine to call them out though obviously it's the coach's job to make sure they're ready to go for game one.

The first line needs to absolutely play better than that too - they seem to always have a bit of early season rust, and obviously they're going to be more than fine once things get going, but they really should be expected to be leading the team right from the first shift.

Nylander looked pretty good

Scathing.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Meh. I'm prepared for LOTS of this sort of garbage play this season. And crap goaltending.

 

[Dreakmur]

So you are going to hang on to the worst play (and arguably only truly poor play) Holl made all game and ignore the fact that he was strong the rest of the game?

Muzzin is dragging down the pairing, just like he was dragging down every pairing he was on last year. Brodie was better away from Muzzin. Holl was better away from Muzzin. Liljegren was better away from Muzzin. Part of it was probably usage too, but Holl and Brodie were still getting tough usage away from Muzzin and their numbers (both underlying and absolute) were significantly better than when they were with Muzzin (Holl, for example, was +9 away from Muzzin vs. -8 with him).

Leafs fans just like to **** on Holl by biasing their opinions towards his worst moments, which are a small subset of his overall play and completely underrates his overall contributions to this team.

Justin Holl had like 10 good games in 2020 and has been a 6-7 defenseman the rest of his career.

It’s never just one play. He often makes terrible pinches. He often overhandles the puck. He often makes poor decision. He often takes weird routes to the puck. He often looses his man in coverage. He often gets beat in foot races. He often gets outmuscled by smaller forwards.

But yeah, other than all that, he’s pretty solid….

 

[AvroArrow]

What a shit show. Justin Holl needs to be fired into the sun, how many turnovers in our own zone did he have ? On the last goal he's up in the offensive zone while the Habs are rushing in, Muzzin with a brutal giveaway. Just a pathetic effort to be quite honest, they all looked half asleep out there. Did not like anybodys game at all, hopefully they show up to play tonight with some energy, they took the night off yesterday so fatigue shouldn't be an issue.

But I really can't put enough emphasis on getting rid of Holl, just awful.

 

[Holymakinaw]

But I really can't put enough emphasis on getting rid of Holl, just awful.

I'd be okay with that.

 

[ACC1224]

I thought Holl looked to be in mid season form. He’s always been terrible, last night wasn’t a revelation.

 

[NMacrules]

Keefe is a tool. Robertson should have been in Engvalls spot, who had 4 turnovers. Why is long neck still on the team. Cut him loose and bring up Nick.

BAHAHA pure comedy.

Mirror image of last year…. Because they brought back pretty much the same team. Powerplay useless. Didn’t anyone expect Kerfoot to score in the penalty shot?

Muzzin and Holl same tire fire as last year.

See y’all tomororw.

Thats funny. Half the forward group is new.

 

[Hellcat]

They looked like a team that has never played together. They looked lost.

They looked like a team with a fragile mind.

They looked like a team with the weight of the world on their shoulders.

Muzzin looks slow. Tavares looks like a guy who is not ready. Marner looks like a guy who is thinking the game like its mid season but his body is not there to do what his mind is thinking. Our 6 dmen were all poor. The 3rd and 4th line were invisible. I would expect more physical play from the hyphen twins, they were underwhelming.

End of the day its game one of 82, long season. Lots of time to correct things The team really needs to work on the concept that you don't win the cup on day one, they need to chill and do their thing and not force the game.

 

[notdoneyet]

This team is what it is

Elite top 6

No offense from bottom six but hey they hit.

Goaltending below .900

No big save when needed

 

[All Mod Cons]

Keefe is a tool. Robertson should have been in Engvalls spot, who had 4 turnovers. Why is long neck still on the team. Cut him loose and bring up Nick.


Thats funny. Half the forward group is new.

In name.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

everyone needs to calm down. Last season started off pretty rough too if I remember correctly. Everyone was talking about possibly needing to trade marner.... he sucked bla bla bla, and then he got hot and the team got hot. who wants to trade Mitch now? nobody.

The top line was completely invisible in game 1. big deal. it was game 1. They will get it going and everything will look a lot better.
Not saying the defense or goalies will be up to winning a cup, but the forward group is certainly a lot better than it showed last night. that much I know.

Willy is looking like he is going to have a monster year. Matthew is going to go back2back 60G seasons. Marner will continue to Marner. I'd give them a few more games to get things to together.

 

[justashadowof]

This team continues to have its chronic Big Game problems.

 

[Gallagbi]

This team is what it is

Elite top 6

No offense from bottom six but hey they hit.

Goaltending below .900

No big save when needed

The top line was awful last night

 

[Racer88]

Well in the cold light of dawn, after a good nights sleep last nights game still looks like a travesty.

 

[Havoc]

Wrong thread

 

[ACC1224]

Forgot Monahan was a Hab. What riches did they give up to acquire him?

 

[tmlmatus]

This team continues to have its chronic Big Game problems.

... big game? its literally game one.

 

[namttebih]

Remember when we waived a solid backup...... bled points and lost in the playoff qualifier?

That was the backup. Samsonov better be a diamond in the rough or it's gonna be a long, long season.

Remember when there were rumors of Dubas wanting to sign a washed up, oft injured, former Sault alumni. One whose GAA was above 3.00 and save % below .900 and wasn't good enough for a bottom feeder. Also how literally nobody in the city thought that signing him was a good idea but he did it anyway?

Can we fire this guy already?