Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose the opener 4-3

[Havoc]

And again, you’re still wrong. The leafs had a poor start to last season too and went on to have their best season on record. If you don’t understand how that translates to deserving the benefit of the doubt then I cannot help you.

The playoffs have nothing to do with the regular season and it’s been one game

To be fair, there's a difference between poor start versus picking and choosing when you want to be good.

I wasn't inspired at all by last night's performance. You can still be inspired by a loss or a bad start.

It was like they think they're too cool to beat the Habs or too cool to have to try yet. You could feel how the Habs wanted the win more than them through your television screen.

That's not a good look for a team with zero success. Come flying out the gate and set the tone for the type of season you want and expect for yourselves. Do you like the tone they set regardless if last night was a win or loss?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

There just seems to be no emotion. No one in that room is firing that room up.

 

[Amadeus]

There just seems to be no emotion. No one in that room is firing that room up.

That's a huge overreaction after the first game.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The players have just been far too comfy under Dubas. He's too emotionally attached to some and should have moved on from a guy like Muzzin (who I love) - a declining d-man

That's a huge overreaction after the first game.

That's the way you want to start your season after what's happened the last 6 years!?

 

[DraftSchmaft]

If not even "it's okay to lose this one because the series will be 2-2" Keefe is happy with how game 1 went from a competitive stand point, nobody should be.

Keefe strikes me as a guy who has some old school in him. He's getting tired of this excel spread sheet game and wants to see some heart and raw results when it matters.

I was the one who called out Marner for just being fine lately since game 2 instead of elite so ill elaborate: I'd take Marner at a 20% xGF for the odd game (using 20% to make a point obviously its absurd to wish for 20) if he said F this and then mean mugged his way to the net and crashed it in for the win. I'd burst out of my seat and fist pump until my shoulder falls off. But I know it will just be the same low intensity, high probability plays followed with "meh, no bounce, what can you do?" speech instead. It's been a long time since Marner gave me an adrenaline rush in the playoffs, so I do get frustrated when he begins a new season the exact same way.

 

[Amadeus]

The players have just been far too comfy under Dubas. He's too emotionally attached to some and should have moved on from a guy like Muzzin (who I love) - a declining d-man


That's the way you want to start your season after what's happened the last 6 years!?

No it's not but they started poor last year too and everything was fine, so I'm not ready to claim that their locker room has no leadership after game 1.

 

[bossram]

Leafs simply can't rely on 4 forwards to carry a team...it's that simple. Trade one or more of the top 4 forwards for a solid goaltender and defender. Otherwise this will be a very challenged team to make the playoffs.

You think Montreal was fast wait until they face Detroit, Ottawa, and Buffalo. Especially Buffalo.

The forwards weren't really the problem, Bunting's awful turnover aside. They got contributions from most of their lines. It wasn't "Big 4 and zilch".

Marner and Bunting produced a goal. Willie/Tavares/Malgin produced two goals and were generally moving play in the right direction. Kerfoot/Engvall/Jarnkrok didn't produce, but had the best overall two-way impact of the forward lines.

The 4th line was bad, and before the season I had said that I think the construction of the line is bad. They have no one who can push play forward. Kampf was successful between two speedy, effective forwards. ZAR and NAK are a clear tier behind.

But yeah, the real problem was the blueline. Muzzin/Holl were simply awful. Horrible retrievals and horrible decision-making. The usual unnecessary risk-taking from Rielly. Gio and Sandin were meh. They need them to be a lot better.

 

[Blowfish]

The forwards weren't really the problem, Bunting's awful turnover aside. They got contributions from most of their lines. It wasn't "Big 4 and zilch".

Marner and Bunting produced a goal. Willie/Tavares/Malgin produced two goals and were generally moving play in the right direction. Kerfoot/Engvall/Jarnkrok didn't produce, but had the best overall two-way impact of the forward lines.

The 4th line was bad, and before the season I had said that I think the construction of the line is bad. They have no one who can push play forward. Kampf was successful between two speedy, effective forwards. ZAR and NAK are a clear tier behind.

But yeah, the real problem was the blueline. Muzzin/Holl were simply awful. Horrible retrievals and horrible decision-making. The usual unnecessary risk-taking from Rielly. Gio and Sandin were meh. They need them to be a lot better.

IMO the goalie and D are a big concern. The only way to improve will be to trade something of value.

 

[bossram]

IMO the goalie and D are a big concern. The only way to improve will be to trade something of value.

The goaltending is what it is. There won't be much remedying it. Murray will have to be better or Samsonov will have to take the reins.

The blueline was an overall strength last season, so I would reserve judgment until there's a larger sample. Obviously last night wasn't good, but it's one game. Liljegren would add a bit more balance to the pairings.

 

[Captain Crunch]

You’re right, unless they correct these flaws, they’re doomed to fail again in the first round.

A) because they’ll be playing a good team that will exploit their weaknesses

B) by not winning the division they’ll be playing Tampa or Florida rather than a wildcard.

And this “core” and management have been together for what, 4 years now, and they STILL MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES (not starting on time, not taking advantage of lesser opponents, I could go on)!
As I’ve said before, this team is what it is: play poorly against weaker opponents, play well against stronger opponents, have good to great regular seasons but shit the bed in the first round, give up big leads. To me, regular season means absolutely nothing, it’s all about the playoffs!

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

What a stupid f***ing comment

Thanks for your valuable input.

 

[Mr Kot]

This matches the eye test - 4th line and Muzzin pairing were just getting clowned on:

View attachment 593449

To be fair, pens fans warned that Aston-Reece woudl be a massive drain on offense. Ok defensive numbers, but a complete momentum killer.

 

[garce]

on a side note and maybe taboo, I think St. Louis is going to be a very good coach

Maybe but I’ll withhold judgement until the end of this season at least. Pretty easy during this honeymoon period just to let the young talent blow the zone early and come back slow like Suzuki and Caufield have been doing sin MSL a took over, with all the oohing and awing over their performance last night they were on for two against unless I’m mistaken.
The Montreal (and a lot of national) media are adoring everything he does right now.
Curious to see how it looks next April.

 

[Canadian Finn]

That's a huge overreaction after the last five seasons.

there.

fixed that for you.

 

[Amadeus]

there.

fixed that for you.

You compare the first game of the season to the last 2 first games of the season. Believe we won both.

Take a deep breath.

 

[Gabriel426]

To be fair no pro team can win with that crap show on defense .. we had Brad Marsh 4.0 going in our bottom 4 .. i mean slow, slower, slowest and brutally slow ..all we can do is hope Gio and Muzzy are out of pro game condition .. Sandin held out and he was useless .. Holl has always been useless but it is worse with Muzzy for sure .. bottom line it was blow bye after blow bye and like another poster said tenders freak out when they have house league defense like that in front of them .. it may take these guys a month to get back to proper condition to let team compete .. defenders take a lot longer time to get things going again

I agree with the D corps comment but was there any shift that AM played like the current Rocket and Hart winner? Did Marner played like the 1st Team All-Star? Our top guys really didn't show up, and when they did, they were visible for the wrong reason.

 

[Leviathan899]

Mathews was horrible. Complete non factor kinda like against Tampa in game 7 last year.

Doesn’t drive offense imo

Leafs won’t win with Matthews. I’d hiebsrly

1st game of season, against da Habs and playing the bottom team in East and there was no excitement, no effort, no jump, no speed nothing .. basically got lunch fed to them .. disgusting display on TV (hard to see full game on TV so will reserve judgement to tonight when i see live)

Looks to me like we are getting slower, much slower, even from last years team .. you can't use your skill when you can't keep up to game pace as quite a few non player stats guys on here don't understand

Rielly and Brodie look fine .. but after that bottom 4 D are flat out not at NHL level speed (and really not even close to it) .. everyone expects it from Sandin and Holl who never could skate with any pace at all .. but now we see Muzzy and Gio who looked like turtles too .. I hope it is just Muzzy and Gio getting into game shape as vets (as that does occur with vet pro defenders) .. but bottom line if it is father time kicking in here then this team is doomed .. you can't win a pro hockey game with that bottom 4 it is mid AHL level quality at best

On positive side Murray held team in game in 2nd with a couple 10 bellers when Leafs were flat out killed .. people blaming him on game winning goal OMG .. Muzzy puts a beautiful pass to Habs and then Holl completely screens his tender .. when a D tries to block shot in slot you must save it otherwise you are leaving your tender in an impossible situation

Did anyone see JT pick up his speed (sorry JT is a great guy) but lets stop with Leaf BS media press please .. he played a grinder game with some skill which is exactly what he can offer .. but stop with da bS please

Willy was flying which was great to see in game 1 really only guy with flat out speed and skill we got .. Kerfoot has it too but hockey sense is not in his tool kit .. hard to win in pro hockey with only 2 forwards with speed

I will find out for sure tonight at Hot Stove pre game but looks like Matty came into camp way overweight AGAIN .. where is Leaf media types with breaking this one .. you can't play a pro hockey game with your 2 Cs playing at that pace .. sorry it will never ever work

i agree, team looked really slow last night. Not many guys on this roster are the fleetest of foot, but they generally made up for it last year with how quickly the moved the puck around and played as a 5 man unit. Didn’t see much of that last night at all. Losing our fastest player in Mikheyev doesn’t help either.

 

[Leviathan899]

Ya it's just game 1 of 82, but i look at the intangibles and habits.

1. They did not challenge the 4 rookie D, soft forecheck
2. Not enough getting inside the dots.
3. Most of Toronto's goals were scored on Montreal rookie mistakes
4. Most of Montreal goals were scored on Toronto veteran mistakes (Mathews Goal 1&2), Goal 3 1 Montreal player beating 3 leaf players on boards (Reilly/Kampf/Engvall) Goal 4 Holl pinching Muzzin giving it up
5. Murray was not the stone wall goalie Toronto needs with the 6 D in front of him
6. Keefe too wound up for this team, feeling the pressure for sure
7. Same attitude from stars, have to score goals, pad the stats....need to focus on team play, strong board play, making right decisions when to stay high if D pinches....simple stuff

Need to change mind set, everyone focusing on mathews scoring 70...why do we care!!!!! Get the team playing the right way, so much pressure on Marner mathews Tavares to score, but maybe Fans and Media should be pressuring these guys to tighten up defensively and play the right way....ask the Tampa Bay Lightning of 2018/2019.

A lot of the fans clamouring for Matthews to score 65-70 goals seem to think that alone is enough to be considered a good season, team success be damned. I couldn’t care less if he scored 30 goals or 60 goals, start playing the game hard and be a more well rounded player. He has the longest leash amongst the fans of any player I’ve ever seen here and he’s the same year in year out when facing adversity, he plays with no pulse. So what he finished a few more checks against Tampa, he’s still not a physical player for his size and is pretty easy to defend if you stay right on him. I get it he’s a fantastic talent and goal scorer but I feel he gets too much of a pass here because he scores a lot in the regular season. He needs to be better

 

[Leviathan899]

They looked like they had an all nighter the night before, they were a mess. Lets be honest though the Leafs last night were around 30% to 40% of what their play can be. Montreal was at 90% of their potential abilities. Last night was Montreal's Stanly Cup. For us it was just a game we will forget in a few days.

Ultimately the leafs management takes a lot of its directives from the collective attitude of this fan base and how it’s reflected in the media, and a large majority of fans were screaming to “run it back”, despite it being obvious some serious changes needed to be made. So they did and did their usual tinkering with the bottom 6 and brought in two goaltenders, but the same core remains. Those fans absolutely need to wear whatever happens to the team this year. It’s a shame how Dubas is so easily influenced by fan perception but it’s smart on his part imo, if he remains in good light amongst the loudest segment of the fans, it ensures job security.

Sad day when we watch Habs outskate and out hustle us for pucks .. that is an AHL level team at best and hard to watch .. it hurts a ton when it is da Habs .. a stinker against anyone else sure but not da Habs

Top to bottom this Habs team has more talent than Toronto. Toronto has the best players at the top, but the drop off is steep after Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares and Rielly. After that our roster would rival the bottom feeder teams. We have terrible depth and zero secondary scoring.

Sad day when we watch Habs outskate and out hustle us for pucks .. that is an AHL level team at best and hard to watch .. it hurts a ton when it is da Habs .. a stinker against anyone else sure but not da Habs

Top to bottom this Habs team has more talent than Toronto. Toronto has the best players at the top, but the drop off is steep after Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares and Rielly. After that our roster would rival the bottom feeder teams. We have terrible depth and zero secondary scoring.

 

[Leviathan899]

Do find the reactions to the loss quite comical - we spent all summer saying the only thing that matters is playoff success, but then utterly meltdown at the first failed hurdle.

Everyone is free to react as they want, but if you're going to go full heavy metal after every hiccup, while ignoring the wins/good stretches that will come, you're going to burn yourselves out by January.

Well alot of fans thought the roster got worse this summer and making the playoffs is seen as a god given right amongst a lot of this fan base, but we still have to make it there for that sentiment to hold any water. I personally don’t think it’s a lock this team finishes top 3 in the Atlantic and I wouldn’t be surprised if were fighting for a WC spot by the end of the season. The whole “regular season doesn’t matter” only really applies if the team can make the playoffs.

 

[Leviathan899]

Lol. No. This is where you're wrong. Because playoff success and proving that you have what it takes to get over a certain hump, or even have a deep run has everything to do with a team getting the benefit of the doubt when it comes to a slow start to the following season.

As well as just because they turned it around last year doesn’t mean it automatically will be the case this year. Fact is getting behind early is not ideal. Do they have the ability to make up for it? Surely. Will they? Well it’s not a given

 

[Menzinger]

As well as just because they turned it around last year doesn’t mean it automatically will be the case this year. Fact is getting behind early is not ideal. Do they have the ability to make up for it? Surely. Will they? Well it’s not a given

They've also only lost one game....

 

[Tak7]

Well alot of fans thought the roster got worse this summer and making the playoffs is seen as a god given right amongst a lot of this fan base, but we still have to make it there for that sentiment to hold any water. I personally don’t think it’s a lock this team finishes top 3 in the Atlantic and I wouldn’t be surprised if were fighting for a WC spot by the end of the season. The whole “regular season doesn’t matter” only really applies if the team can make the playoffs.

Lol, jesus.
They'll be absolutely fine with regards to the playoffs.
Incredible.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

f*** off how did that stay out?

 

[Gallagbi]

Would be really nice (and necessary) for our first line to step up and take over to win this one