Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose in OT 4-3

[Twine Tickler]

really challenging to not over react here. Truly terrible start to the season, and in all honesty we are very fortunate to be 4-4-2. Especially when you consider Matthews and Marner have not been very good.

I am torn on where to go from here. I would say I am fairly rational when it comes to shit like this. I have been a huge supporter in running it back for as long as we have. But unfortunately something just feels different this season. It's almost as if the skill that allowed us to win with consistency has started to regress. We are not crisp by any means, and when we have possession, it is almost exclusively on the perimeter. For those referencing last season's start, I get it, but the 2 just are not the same. We had every underlying metric working in our favor last season despite not getting the results, yet this season we have the exact opposite. We were unfortunate to have a poor record last year, whereas we are almost fortunate to have the record we have ATM. Or at the very minimum we are deserving of our record.

I try to remove emotion from my posts, but this may be the worst stretch of hockey I have witnessed from this group since being constructed in 2016. They have yet to even come close to a full 60 minute effort, and they cannot make a pass to save their lives.

I think I give it another 2 weeks before I'd pull the trigger on any moves, but I'd be working the phones hard right now. This group needs to be held accountable for their play IMO. I think firing Dubas/Keefe seem like the easy and convenient conclusion, but I am not convinced either are the problem TBH. We have serious confidence issues in times of adversity. Time and time again we fail to rise to the occasion in tough moments. It is 1 step forward and 4 steps back.

I am torn at this point. Hard to think this may be the beginning of the end for this core group, but they aren't giving us much of an option. These next 2 weeks are do or die IMO.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I notice the dubas fan boys like to say Lou is lucky and dubas is unlucky but that Lou sucks and dubas is amazing.

A bit strange when one has 2x gm of the year awards in the last 3 and the other has nothing.

Or they both suck.

 

[ZEBROA]

Keefe needs to be a better in game coach. When the team aint on its toes first period, shake things up right away. He needs to react so the players will act(hopefully). Try to get the Maplebeast in motion. Not "Lets watch it sleep and hope it wakes up". And give the few players who are on there toes more icetime, and better chances to win games for us.

I would just tell Marner and Matthews "U got next game to figure this out, and then i separate you" . And if they dont , just switch Marner and Nylander a few games. Like a reset, just to help them get started before you put them together again.

 

[Blowfish]

Babcock and Lou right now

well deserved

 

[Koolboss]

Well..it only took some of y'all 5 years to get it.

Welcome to reality

So true

Dubas fans please say something
Lol

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Leafs are 4-4-2, anyone know what the Leafs record was after 10 games last year?

 

[yubbers]

Nah nice try, you must get offended watching the Leafs

No.That's just train wreck comedy. Hard to be offended about a team you give zero f***s about.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I know the Leafs will turn it around soon, but I have to admit that I'm glad that I have not renewed my nhl.tv subscription.

I cancelled mine too, but I'm considering renewing it so I can watch some good hockey.

 

[Koolboss]

That right there is the line. Dubas is a good GM and a good person. But loyalty and being a good person doesn’t necessarily win you championships. You have to be cut throat and make hard decisions. Sometimes you might not be liked.

Dubas is a good GM?
Hell no unless GM stands for Goofy Moron

 

[BallardEra]

Leafs are 4-4-2, anyone know what the Leafs record was after 10 games last year?

5-4-1

 

[Al14]

No firings announced, so I will NOT be watching the next game!!!

 

[notDatsyuk]

Dubas had to give up a pick to move Marleau, a lou signing. Lou was/is a mediocre GM at best. If I'm being brutally honest, Lou is a shit GM who's still riding the coattails and reputation of those 90's Devils teams. Easily the most overrated GM in my mind. He got incredibly lucky with scouting, same as Holland.

I guess you missed the earlier part of the conversation, or maybe just my point.

They were both very similar 'bad' Lou signings, but he got rid of Komarov at no cost, while Dubas had to waste a first to do the same with Marleau.

 

[Zack47]

I actually think that Marner is a major problem on this team. No, no obvious evidence of this, except that now you have to reach to figure out why this team is not playing better. I don't think "the room" is in good shape: you've got Matthews and Marner, probably kind of separate from everyone else, you've got Nylander kind of multiplying the air of arrogance, you've got nice-guy Tavares, who can't stand up to whatever the problem in the room is. I just think Marner is not well-liked, ever since that contract.

But you have to start by to firing Keefe. It's not a matter of who is better, or saving the year, it is doing what is right. Also Dubas: he should be fired for making the fatal error of making so few changes of substance this summer. Look at other teams -- at least they tried. Calgary lost major players, their stars, and went out and got NEW major players, and now they are a team to watch.

Everything Toronto does tell the players there are no consequences. Lose playoffs, give up the puck and lose games, fumble away the puck on defense, play soft, doesn't matter. They're all out there skating around.

Trade Marner. Trade him now...

 

[Mess]

Everybody love and underdog and so it appears our Leafs are the underdogs in any game they play.

Leafs started with the easiest QofC schedule with 7 of their first 10 games against non playoff teams from last year and lost 5 of them.

 

[Gary Nylund]

really challenging to not over react here. Truly terrible start to the season, and in all honesty we are very fortunate to be 4-4-2. Especially when you consider Matthews and Marner have not been very good.

I am torn on where to go from here. I would say I am fairly rational when it comes to shit like this. I have been a huge supporter in running it back for as long as we have. But unfortunately something just feels different this season. It's almost as if the skill that allowed us to win with consistency has started to regress. We are not crisp by any means, and when we have possession, it is almost exclusively on the perimeter. For those referencing last season's start, I get it, but the 2 just are not the same. We had every underlying metric working in our favor last season despite not getting the results, yet this season we have the exact opposite. We were unfortunate to have a poor record last year, whereas we are almost fortunate to have the record we have ATM. Or at the very minimum we are deserving of our record.

I try to remove emotion from my posts, but this may be the worst stretch of hockey I have witnessed from this group since being constructed in 2016. They have yet to even come close to a full 60 minute effort, and they cannot make a pass to save their lives.

I think I give it another 2 weeks before I'd pull the trigger on any moves, but I'd be working the phones hard right now. This group needs to be held accountable for their play IMO. I think firing Dubas/Keefe seem like the easy and convenient conclusion, but I am not convinced either are the problem TBH. We have serious confidence issues in times of adversity. Time and time again we fail to rise to the occasion in tough moments. It is 1 step forward and 4 steps back.

I am torn at this point. Hard to think this may be the beginning of the end for this core group, but they aren't giving us much of an option. These next 2 weeks are do or die IMO.

I've been feeling like it's hard to put into words what I think or how I feel at this point but I agree with all this so I feel like you've done it for me. Nice post, let's hope that over the next 2 weeks they snap out of it!

 

[Twine Tickler]

So true

Dubas fans please say something
Lol

I have no problem saying I still believe in Kyle Dubas as a GM. He is a very smart hockey mind, and he has only gotten better as time has passed. Is this core an issue? potentially. But I have absolutely no problem with Kyle wanting to see this core to the absolute bitter end.

We all live in this heightened emotional state when it comes to this team. Everyone wants to trade and fire people just so that they can have their hurt feelings heard. But rarely does that accomplish anything in the end.

I think we can all agree that the level of play we have seen to start this season is unlike anything we have seen in years past. Our underlying metrics, conventional metrics, and eye test are all atrocious. This is something that has never occurred in the Dubas/Keefe era.

I maintain belief in Kyle's ability to manage. He knows how to assemble a good team. Unfortunately this group's talent does not supersede their inability to overcome their demons and rise to the occasion when the pressure mounts. It's an unquantifiable metric, but one that has become increasingly more clear as time has wore on.

I'll never sit here and defend Kyle's every move. He has plenty of blame to assume here too. But that doesn't take away from all the good he has done, and the talent he has as a GM.

I have no problem defending my stance on Kyle as our GM, that has not changed for me.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Rinse and repeat
Same old same old
Only partial good news is Matty looks like he is improving in his conditioning although it was da ducks so I will reserve judgement until I see him live against Flyers .. but he did not get caved last night
But then again Mitch decides to sh*t da bed it da worst possible way last night .. why did you even bother to lace em up Mitch???????? .. absolutely pathetic .. again it is 1 game but OMG why not just give da game away as well as sh*t da bed .. a double whammmy .. you would have helped team staying in da room after da stick break drama
Only thing positive I can say was Willy decided to play his best game of season .. man he tiled ice to us when he was on da ice .. way to go Willy .. we need that effort and speed every night (but good to see after taking last game off)
Take willy away from JT and he looks so much better .. JT is an anchor for Willy .. but then you can see da real JT now and it looks to me like a LWer right now .. he got caved again last night
Our D is da joke of da NHL .. I can't believe but we are bottom 5 in league again .. Holl Sandin are not NHLers .. Rielly looks scared in hos won end .. Brodie can't prop up Holl sorry no one can .. Gio really is off and on at this stage .. pathetic personnel grouping as a whole .. completely unacceptable we are so bad
I actually feel bad for Keefer because he likely takes da fall for Dubie pretty soon .. bad bad bad bad .. grow some b*lls Keefer .. when Mitch does that you tell him to go straight to room and take off his skates .. sets a terrible message to da guys .. terrible

 

[Oilers in NS]

Yea...Hire Trotz. This team is going no where unless we have fire lit under their asses.

not here to cause trouble because we have been thru this many times as well

How long would they go before pulling the plug and installing Trotz? Dubas has to protect his job so coach will be first causality

 

[Notsince67]

Keefe needs to be a better in game coach. When the team aint on its toes first period, shake things up right away. He needs to react so the players will act(hopefully). Try to get the Maplebeast in motion. Not "Lets watch it sleep and hope it wakes up". And give the few players who are on there toes more icetime, and better chances to win games for us.

I would just tell Marner and Matthews "U got next game to figure this out, and then i separate you" . And if they dont , just switch Marner and Nylander a few games. Like a reset, just to help them get started before you put them together again.

Marner wasn't good last game but Matthews has been a bit if a black hole for shots. He has had a lot of good passes on his stick but it hasn't translated to goals. Keefe is totally chicken shit to do anything. Sure...bench Marner for a shift but the shift he put on was awful and he got scared that his move would backfire and put the team back even further. That's when Marner came back on. Truth is that you can stop playing your core to try to get the message across that you aren't happy but the rest of the team is just plain bad this year. Message just gets magnified that this team is not prepared and that it is much more than a couple of holes.

 

[BallardEra]

Dreadful road trip shows Maple Leafs GM Dubas has not built a Cup contender

 

[Pebble live]

No firings announced, so I will NOT be watching the next game!!!

The team most likely didn't get home last night until 3 - 4 AM. No ones in the office yet. saying that, I highly doubt it comes after 10 games. 20 games is a popular point in time for a GM to judge their team. I suspect Shanahan and ownership will use the same time line.

If the team can maintain .500 hockey until then, there's still a good shot at a playoff spot.

One thing at a time but I doubt ownership allows Dubas to name another coach and put him on a long term contract. A Trotz hiring would need to come from ownership and Shanahan. So Dubas needs to go first. The front office needs to be re-shaped. Once the new GM is in place, let him choose the coach.

Trotz recently said in an interview he'd be looking more around January timeline for potential jobs.

 

[ULF_55]

So true

Dubas fans please say something
Lol

Who drafted those bums currently wearing blue and white?

 

[Nineteen67]

Who respects Kyle Dubas? He's the punchline to a joke. Voted GM you'd most like to negotiate with to get a good deal.

Reports Murray had a high draft pick attached to him, but not for Dubas. Andrew Ladd, worse contract, worse player, more term than Marleau, yet Marleau still cost them a 1st round pick. Why? Because the other GM's don't respect Dubas and know they can take advantage of him. Player agents as well.

Dubas is a beta. That personalty can make a swell husband/father/friend but its a liability as an executive.

really challenging to not over react here. Truly terrible start to the season, and in all honesty we are very fortunate to be 4-4-2. Especially when you consider Matthews and Marner have not been very good.

I am torn on where to go from here. I would say I am fairly rational when it comes to shit like this. I have been a huge supporter in running it back for as long as we have. But unfortunately something just feels different this season. It's almost as if the skill that allowed us to win with consistency has started to regress. We are not crisp by any means, and when we have possession, it is almost exclusively on the perimeter. For those referencing last season's start, I get it, but the 2 just are not the same. We had every underlying metric working in our favor last season despite not getting the results, yet this season we have the exact opposite. We were unfortunate to have a poor record last year, whereas we are almost fortunate to have the record we have ATM. Or at the very minimum we are deserving of our record.

I try to remove emotion from my posts, but this may be the worst stretch of hockey I have witnessed from this group since being constructed in 2016. They have yet to even come close to a full 60 minute effort, and they cannot make a pass to save their lives.

I think I give it another 2 weeks before I'd pull the trigger on any moves, but I'd be working the phones hard right now. This group needs to be held accountable for their play IMO. I think firing Dubas/Keefe seem like the easy and convenient conclusion, but I am not convinced either are the problem TBH. We have serious confidence issues in times of adversity. Time and time again we fail to rise to the occasion in tough moments. It is 1 step forward and 4 steps back.

I am torn at this point. Hard to think this may be the beginning of the end for this core group, but they aren't giving us much of an option. These next 2 weeks are do or die IMO.

We have no idea what was said to the team at the end of last year, but I assume the players were assured they would upgrade the team to help them get over the hump.
Then Dubas took these huge gambles and I can’t imaging the players felt inspired and weren’t left scratching their heads.

 

[Notsince67]

No firings announced, so I will NOT be watching the next game!!!

Thats all fine and dandy but I find the notion of publicly communicated boycotts on a fan site to be curious. Its like when Frank the Tank in the movie "old school" called for a group streak after a party and started running buck naked alone with no awareness that nobody was following

 

[francis246]

I actually think that Marner is a major problem on this team. No, no obvious evidence of this, except that now you have to reach to figure out why this team is not playing better. I don't think "the room" is in good shape: you've got Matthews and Marner, probably kind of separate from everyone else, you've got Nylander kind of multiplying the air of arrogance, you've got nice-guy Tavares, who can't stand up to whatever the problem in the room is. I just think Marner is not well-liked, ever since that contract.

But you have to start by to firing Keefe. It's not a matter of who is better, or saving the year, it is doing what is right. Also Dubas: he should be fired for making the fatal error of making so few changes of substance this summer. Look at other teams -- at least they tried. Calgary lost major players, their stars, and went out and got NEW major players, and now they are a team to watch.

Everything Toronto does tell the players there are no consequences. Lose playoffs, give up the puck and lose games, fumble away the puck on defense, play soft, doesn't matter. They're all out there skating around.

Trade Marner. Trade him now...

Lol, you can tell who actually listens to the players and watches preseason media videos and who makes up their own narrative. Tell me one player who hates Marner? Everyone loves him that’s the problem, he’s probably too influential in the room.

He’s not hated at all, Thornton, Marleau, Matthews, Bunting, Kerfoot, Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie and the list go on, all have mentioned being closest to Marner. I think a lot of people are probably right in their assessment that he is the biggest voice in the room and maybe he’s too emotional to be leading this group. But he’s definitely not unliked by his teammates.