Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 4-2

[hector morrison]

Ok so say 20 games in and we're still holding our head above water with a .500 record, I still have a weird/bad feeling that Dubas is hoping and praying that things magically solve themselves so he doesn't need to make a high risk move.

I just got a bad feeling of how this season is going to transpire.

Nobody in the office is gonna be able to make an accurate assessment without a full regular roster...so maybe not till December before everyone is back and clicking. Babs job is safe this year. No playoffs,1st round exit ,might be the end for him.

 

[hector morrison]

Think that’s more to do with the style of play. for example, I can see a line up of JT-Matthews-Willie/Marner but I cant see Willie-Matthews-Marner on the same 5v5 line.

Funny thing really. Babs excuse has been ,'there isn't enough puck' ,but ,after watching the broons top line,they seem to have found a way to share the puck as arguably the most prolific line in hockey. Not sure what combo works for the Leafs,but there has to be one threesome in there somewhere that can be a bona-fide top line!

 

[hector morrison]

oh lol 100% Babcock would run Boston's top-6 like that. He'd do something dumb like put Heinen with Marchand/Bergeron and Debrusk with Krejci/Pasta and make it an overall less effective top-6 while spouting his "not enough puck to go around" BS the whole time.

Thats funny ...I just used that same quote ...Ha,Babs..he is so predictable,other coaches are never sureprised by what he does...he even plays a 'road game' at home..matching the other team instead of forcing them to match him...really unsure about how this year is gonna end up!

 

[ZEBROA]

“What I’m a fan of is harmony in groups. I like harmony and I like potential, so that harmony has to have a bit of an edge to it and I’ve always liked creating those environments. You get along, sure, but there’s still an edge, a respect, a bite. And I also just like leading people, always have since I was young. I’m a teacher at heart. If I run into players now from Edmonton or the Swiss National Team, we’ll go to dinner or out for drinks. Making them better people was the goal all the while trying to win games. Same here. I’ll do this until I feel I can’t grow anymore in the role and then I’ll do something else. ’’

I want this coach...

 

[ruaware41]

This 'style' of no retaliation,non aggressive (physically) hockey ,must be by design. They are going with speed/skill as much as possible. I get it,but I bet it's somewhat embarrassing for a Leaf player deep down to be constantly on the receiving end. Leaf management think it is smart hockey. Perhaps it is! Yet ,somehow it hasn't translated into more Power Plays ,which would justify the '***** hockey ' that they are playing. Also,it's embarrassing as a fan to see the player's not stick up for each other.It must be for them as well.

The low point of the season,thus far ,for me was watching the newly crowned Captain get crunched against the boards by Webber. No retaliation from anyone on the ice and no retaliation after the fact. Clean hit or not,(I don't think it was)that needed to be addressed. That single act made me question whether I really wanted to watch anymore of this brand of hockey. I still am ,but I'm not diggin' it!

The high point of the season for me so far,and I didn't even think he should have a job on the Leafs,was Marincin putting the headlock on Backes and the ensuing take down ,for running Freddy. Muzzin did something similar to kissy-face Marchand later in the game. This is a recent development,maybe they figured that Freddy on the shelf for a while is worth more than a 2 minute PP opportunity to 'make them pay'. I hope the protection continues with even more aggression!

I originally thought that,when the Leafs hired Shanny to be at the helm and his trust in the bright young analytic Gm,Dubas who was mentored by Lou Lam,the talented young players acquired through the draft/trades,along with the high profile coach would finally lead to success. It is hard to criticize the regular season improvement...yet,too easy to make excuses for the playoff exits. I know it's easy to suggest(amongst other deficiencies) that a few tougher players would of helped...but it would of!

This management/coaching strategy of getting players to buy into the discipline of knowing that being tough means you have to 'take the guff and ya suffer' (Stompin'Toms lyrics) need to realize that:

1) Most teams don't have a PP success rate of more than 25% ,so 1 in 4 chances isn't a good rate of 'making them pay for their infractions',it really isn't the best equalizer. Especially if that player gets injured on the play! If other teams know(and they do) that the Leafs don't retaliate,it will be(is) open season on all Leaf players.

2)Relying on the questionable integrity of the refs. The Leafs are one of the fastest/skilled teams but are not getting the calls. So,the strategy of playing nice isn't working!Last in the League over the past 4 years or close to it. Maybe they(the refs) don't like Babs! 4 years and it still isn't working out! Maybe try some other strategy!

3) Intimidation is a real thing,it is used and dealt with in a variety of ways.Anyone who has played competitive physical sports knows this. Leaf management can ask their players to put up with the dirty play,the non calls,etc...let the refs/league do the policing,but they cannot expect the players to not be affected by the intimidation factor.It isn't a realistic expectation.Makes it difficult to feel like you're part of a team when you're not allowed to back each other up.

Anyway,I was almost buying into the attitude of a tough guy being a waste of a roster space or a liability,but after witnessing the first 10 games,I think it's very necessary to have one or two players who won't put up with the other team taking liberties. Even if it means taking a number for later,picking your spots or whatever,I think the young lads would appreciate someone to provide protection. Yes ,it would be great if that player(s) were a decent hockey playeras well,but I'm not sure the Leafs can afford not to have someone who can take care of business!

Interesting take and I agree with your 3 numbered points. With that said, does high skilled fast paced hockey and playing with some fire, standing up for teammates, defending one self, forechecking hard have to be mutually exclusive? There are several teams in the league that have chosen to go the route of building a skilled team and none are such pushovers. If there are any such examples, hey I'm pretty open minded. If anyone can list such an example I'll spend a week or two exclusively watching their games and see if they play like the leafs but I can pretty much guarantee it's impossible to find such teams in the NHL.

I wonder if the players feel any shame and are told to play this way or that they have just to tuned out the coach and by extension each other as well

 

[horner]

For all the people criticizing Matthews which is deserved, he for the most part looks great with Nylander. However with Marner, completely different story.

Taveras and hyman regular linemates gone .

Marner needs to play better.

He's also killing penalties which Mathews doesn't.

They all have to start playing a complete 200' games .

Passion, heart, pay the price and give a shot.

 

[horner]

This team needs to go for a 3 game road trip and due some bonding.

 

[BushFireRecordsRedux]

Greedlander needs 2 be better

 

[horner]

I can’t stand Marner. At least Matthews was great last night. Marner has been absolutely pathetic all year.

Rielly has been garbage too.

What f***ing part of Mathews game has been great.
The second highest paid player in the game. Wow
If this was a grt game by Mathews we are in trouble.

Jesus buddy don't make it so advious that you hat Marner or Mathews can do know wrong .
Wow just wow.

At least some of us on here state that our core Al have to be better, not just one or 2.

Again watch the game and take you blinders off.

 

[ruaware41]

“What I’m a fan of is harmony in groups. I like harmony and I like potential, so that harmony has to have a bit of an edge to it and I’ve always liked creating those environments. You get along, sure, but there’s still an edge, a respect, a bite. And I also just like leading people, always have since I was young. I’m a teacher at heart. If I run into players now from Edmonton or the Swiss National Team, we’ll go to dinner or out for drinks. Making them better people was the goal all the while trying to win games. Same here. I’ll do this until I feel I can’t grow anymore in the role and then I’ll do something else. ’’

I want this coach...

Tbh this family man, good people, good children, good wife crap has probably run its course now with Mike 'family man' Babcock at the helm and may have contributed to the attitude on the ice. I want a coach that doesn't decide on who to play based on who's a gud person but his only f***ing goal is to help the team win and thrive and has a genuine passion for his players thriving. The off ice crap needs to be left off ice. Come to think of it how can you expect someone to give a slash back or a cross check when digging pucks along the boards when Mr. Aristotle can't stop talking about the virtues of being a gud family man. I want someone that's not a narcissistic camera loving philosopher but someone that just wants to win

 

[Twowingcantfly]

Thats funny ...I just used that same quote ...Ha,Babs..he is so predictable,other coaches are never sureprised by what he does...he even plays a 'road game' at home..matching the other team instead of forcing them to match him...really unsure about how this year is gonna end up!

Babs has become predictable because of the players he has to work with. A good example of this is: Most teams have a top 6 that can rotate to any position on the PP if need be. How many players in our top six can you say the same for. This is why he has to match lines, because he has the same problem with a few players he has to play. A couple of them cannot rotate at the drop of a hat even at 5V5.
Dubas is at fault. A GM should always consult with the head coach. Especially when signing big ticket players..

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

why wont they try Marchment up here?

 

[Twowingcantfly]

people here told me i was stupid when i said barrie is not better than jake g

Funny. I was saying the same thing, and they called me dumb and stupid too. LOL...

 

[Hustlr]

I nominate Barrie as the next whipping boy on D.

8x8

 

[Man Bear Pig]

why wont they try Marchment up here?

Korshkov is better and plays that style. And he has some top 6 potential to be a complimentary winger like Hyman. I like Marchment but at best hes a 4th liner. I wouldn't mind having both in the lineup tbh. Teams like the Bruins roll those types of players on every line and our guys get their asses handed to them.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

couple things- im 46, fan since i was like 5 years old. They really miss Naz. 2. If Reilly keeps this up Dubas will only overpay him by 2 instead of 3 million. No heart, no compete, scared. They need to bring up Marchment. Babs needs to BENCH BOTH Marner and AM. The compete level of this sorry group is sickening.

 

[Legion34]

They may not have played top teams in the league but they at least have a system that works. Their top players actually try and they do play defense.

the..... sabres?????
what happened last year? Or the year before?? Or the year before?

Eichel became Bergeron overnight?

 

[ZEBROA]

Tbh this family man, good people, good children, good wife crap has probably run its course now with Mike 'family man' Babcock at the helm and may have contributed to the attitude on the ice. I want a coach that doesn't decide on who to play based on who's a gud person but his only ****ing goal is to help the team win and thrive and has a genuine passion for his players thriving. The off ice crap needs to be left off ice. Come to think of it how can you expect someone to give a slash back or a cross check when digging pucks along the boards when Mr. Aristotle can't stop talking about the virtues of being a gud family man. I want someone that's not a narcissistic camera loving philosopher but someone that just wants to win

That quote was from R Krueger the new coach of Buffalo. Who the players respect and who make them play better than ever before as a team. So i realy think he would have been better for this team. I like his philosophy. If its harmony at work you work better. Common sense.

 

[ZEBROA]

Greedlander needs 2 be better

Noone with such name on this team. That must be your gardener or something. You should take it up with him directly instead.

 

[Lenovs]

just re-watched the game, really brutal.

no way we're making it past round one in the playoffs (if we get there at all) with this kind of effort. marner has been a disgrace so far and matthews gets invisible again the moment he's facing strong opposition. not even starting on barrie.

I find it hard to stay interested in this bunch of grossly overpaid non-performers. the whole organisation needs a a wake up call.

 

[HomerJLeafs]

couple things- im 46, fan since i was like 5 years old. They really miss Naz. 2. If Reilly keeps this up Dubas will only overpay him by 2 instead of 3 million. No heart, no compete, scared. They need to bring up Marchment. Babs needs to BENCH BOTH Marner and AM. The compete level of this sorry group is sickening.

Disagree. Marner needs to be benched or somehow get his shit 2gether.
Matthews need to be on the same line with Nylander because that worked works. Babcock needs to get his shit 2gether too.

 

[Gallagbi]

why wont they try Marchment up here?

Because the people he'd replace are actually playing decent or about to be demoted

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Our bottom six are better then our top 6 and are making 80% less money. Go figure! Embarrassing

 

[ZEBROA]

Just got so say i was wrong. Matthews and Marner dont seem to gel at all. Still dont know if Nylander Tavares works, but if the first dudes sucks together then its no reason to try the others. Hyman and Tavares please come back fast so we got to lines intact.

 

[Sevendust]

Bruins fan here and I would like to chime in. Its early in the season and I would give the kids some slack. Marner was your best player in the Playoffs in both years against us. He will be alright.