Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 4-2

[Coatsy79]

So what's up with this team, its the same shitty effort and excuses they had going back years now to the kessel era

 

[Ports]

If this piss poor play continues, this team needs to be booed and heavily. Every ****ing game until either management makes some necessary changes of the players get so embarrassed that they start putting some effort in. I've been watching since the 70's and have never been so disgusted in a group overall.

And that says alot given some of the past teams we had to watch. At least they pushed back occassionally.

 

[biotk]

Marner's been atrocious, as has Tavares. At least Matthews and Nylander have carried play

I agree for the most part. Matthews and Nylander have not been good enough at 5v5, but have at least been far better than Marner and Tavares (although it would be near impossible to be worse) - and Matthews and Nylander have been better together (119.4 TOI with 2.51 P/60 for both at 5v5) than when apart (Matthews 1.19 P/60 away from Nylander in 50.5 TOI; Nylander 0 P/60 away from Matthews in 36.1 TOI).

 

[Ports]

I get it. Coach is easiest to replace. You can't get rid of the talent. But you can try with another coach. A lot of you know I'm not the biggest Babcock fan.

But to see our high-end talent just tuning him out, not playing for the crest on front is very disappointing. Replacing Babcock is easy. But is that what we want to teach our young players? "If things don't go your way, or you don't believe in coach, just stop playing and we'll find someone else?"

What happens if they tune out the next coach in a few years? Get rid of him too?

Shanahan has to have a heart-to-heart with our key guys. He can get through to them. He's played the game.

I can't believe I'm defending Babcock a bit, but what these players are doing is not right. Really bad mentality. I liked Kerfoot's post game presser. That's what a pro sounds like. Anyway. We'll see what happens. I don't see them firing Babcock. Atleast not yet.

Babs has his faults but this team is poorly constructed. No defense, grit, work ethic and no cap space to do much to change it and that is on Dubas.

 

[Gabriel426]

If I am Babs, I would put Soup with Matthews and Willie, hopefully give this line some size and then sign Soup right away before he explodes playing with those two.
Have Moore-Kerfoot and Marner then have AJ-Spezza-Kap and Timo-Goat-Shore.
Petan is nice but Shore actually stand up for others.

 

[Ports]

Tbf I've seen and see plenty of other soft teams with no enforcers or fighters and they all stick up for each other always. Toronto is not a small team compared to other NHL teams anyway. Matthews, Tavares, Muzzin, Gauthier, Marincin, Mikheyev, Rielly are no slouches physically. In fact, it's Boston that has a bunch of sub 6 feet guys with Napoleon complexes. Leafs are probably both bigger and stronger on average. It's a culture issue. No one can really pin point the exact reasons though as to why it became like this.

Size doesn’t mean a thing if you don’t use it. Marchand and Krug arent big but boy they are tough and will go through a wall to win. Matthews is big but doesn’t use his size to separate the puck from the puck carrier and wouldn’t back up a teammate if his life depended on it.

 

[Gabriel426]

Babs has his faults but this team is poorly constructed. No defense, grit, work ethic and no cap space to do much to change it and that is on Dubas.

Defense, grit, and work ethic are something that can be coach. I am not saying Dubas is not at fault but what’s the point of having a coach, if not for coaching defense, grit and work ethic. Come on, you can blame Dubas for poorly constructing the team when Babs pretty much turned guys like Martin and Leo into fringe NHLers but both of them are pretty solid playing under Trotz.

 

[Beaninfritz]

The team just played a back to back, and the team at the tail end of it went to game 7 of the stanley cup finals last season. Losses happen. But I guess the Leafs are gutter trash now, and the Sabres are now a dynasty with this small sample size.

 

[Ports]

Defense, grit, and work ethic are something that can be coach. I am not saying Dubas is not at fault but what’s the point of having a coach, if not for coaching defense, grit and work ethic. Come on, you can blame Dubas for poorly constructing the team when Babs pretty much turned guys like Martin and Leo into fringe NHLers but both of them are pretty solid playing under Trotz.

You can’t coach toughness. You either have it or you don’t. Too many skilled guys who don’t want to get their noses dirty. I’m not a Babcock fan but Dubas traded or let those Islander players you referred to go. He has traded or failed to resign any players who had grit and gave their money to four of the softest players in the league.

 

[Ports]

Tyson Barrie was absolutely pathetic, he's a 4th forward. It boggles my mind we don't have one RHD that plays elite leve

Tyson Barrie was absolutely pathetic, he's a 4th forward. It boggles my mind we don't have one RHD that plays elite level defensively

No defenseman period who plays defense very well.

 

[TMLS]

Fire Babcock already. He is so stubborn even in how he uses the goalies in back 2 back games. Dead set on starting Andersen 1st game NO MATTER who they are facing the 2nd night. We lost to Capitals couple of weeks ago bc of this too, used Andersen 1st night agasint Minny and used backup agasint the better team the following night.

This guy is legit the biggest clown coach, and he gets paid 8 million for this. Most overated coach in the history of any sports. Just leave already with the money you got handed and go watch the hunting channel while listening to country music while dreaming about gud pros like Ceci, Marleu, Brown.

 

[Ports]

i have stated this several times here in the past

you can't just have 1 or 2 guys playing like that, they will eventually give up because , why should they be they only ones on the roster sacrificing their bodys?

29 million in cap spent on the big 3 are you ready for this shocking number????

nylander has 1 hit on the season ,
matty 2 ,
barrie 4,
marner 5

this is a 10 ply muffen soft roster

That’s pathetic.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Is Dubas trolling right now with this D core? All his "upgrades" are not upgrades. Imagine vs Boston in the playoffs again this year?? Leafs dont stands a chance. Boston wants to forecheck, Leafs are easy picking. They have no one to outmuscle guys along the wall. Leafs are basically on the PK when u dump the puck in, always out-manned, losing battles, alot of danger starts to happen.

 

[6ix]

I don’t always agree with Craig Buttons takes, but he’s bang on tonight.

The coach is supposed to provide the answers for the players, Egocock clearly doesn’t. It’s time to put the spotlight on Egocock and fire him to the moon.

 

[ruaware41]

Size doesn’t mean a thing if you don’t use it. Marchand and Krug arent big but boy they are tough and will go through a wall to win. Matthews is big but doesn’t use his size to separate the puck from the puck carrier and wouldn’t back up a teammate if his life depended on it.

Absolutely. The fact Boston plays like that despite having so many little guys only proves that we have a culture issue, not a size issue. I can't blame the players because it's way too oversimplistic. It's the same crop of NHL players others have, from the same leagues, same cultures, same nationalities. Even skilled teams have a wolf pack mentality that the leafs don't have. Unless one of us is in the room there is no way to pinpoint what has caused this attitude. It's beyond the current crop of players because I've watched a lot of them actively defend their teammates when they played on their old teams. Not getting in fights but at least letting your buddy know you're there for him and throwing your wacks and cross checks in retaliation. The only man that was unaffected by this corporate culture was one who didn't know how to control himself and got sent off to the mountains for it. We need to replace that energy somehow. Hell even when guys like Johnsson and Kap played in the A there was this wolf pack mentality. How does our AHL team have it but the Leafs don't

 

[Ports]

I just can't see Babcock last the entire season. This reminds me of when Randy Carlyle got fired. He spent weeks facing the media with no answers while the team kept imploding game after game. Well, same issues game after game here and Mike has said everything he can. He's yelled at them, he's tried playing nice.

They've tuned him out. It's time for the change

It’s the only option they have. Dubas handed over the keys to the vault and these over entitled kids have their money and no motivation to play hard. They’re definitely not Gud Pros.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This is a predictable team that is playing a very light skating game that is stick checking instead of body checking. Muzzin isn’t even hitting now. I watch players and i mean every single one of them passing up the hit for a fly by stick check at least a dozen or more times a game.

Teams that are fast like us should be the best at getting there and playing the man instead of the puck. For that you need puck support. This team is spread all over the ice playing strict positional hockey and they back off the puck in all three zones instead of attacking the puck.

This is a system failure and system failures are everyones fault.

Trading Kadri for Two players at a higher cap hit that combined aren’t as good was a wrong move also. Kadri got moved for getting suspended again last playoff. So the old adage that two wrongs don’t make a right rings true. Kadri was dumb getting suspended for picking up for a teammate and management was wrong for trading him and sending the message don’t get out of line.

Matthews is floating and his work ethic is pathetic.
Marner has no jump we are used to
Nylander is scared to go to force his way into the dirty areas for a shot (just watch how he always stops up turning to the boards and looking for the pass to the defense) its his way of bailing out on driving the net. Just watch for him going to the net! It doesn’t happen. He just has to change that move and the goals will come.

Nylander is not the only one. Remember Kadri goung in there causing trouble lots! I do.

Rielly skates circles around the offensive zone and can’t ever find anyone in the slot to pass to.

This is a skill team, skill systems flaw. Its gutless hockey we are watching and we need the coach gone for starters. We need some grit in the lineup and we need a backup goalie that is good enough.

That all said, its babcocks team and he has created this. He is on cruise control with no idea or care to fix this. Shanny better get off his ass and fix this fast or we are not making the playoffs and will be out of it by new year.

The coach has to go andi mean fast. He has lost the room and its because he’s a dumba$$ Pr!(k and everyone can’t stand him after the spezza deal in game one in ottawa. Barrie hates it here playing for him and his confidence and spirit are broken.

Babcock is a cancer

 

[biotk]

i have stated this several times here in the past

you can't just have 1 or 2 guys playing like that, they will eventually give up because , why should they be they only ones on the roster sacrificing their bodys?

29 million in cap spent on the big 3 are you ready for this shocking number????

nylander has 1 hit on the season ,
matty 2 ,
barrie 4,
marner 5

this is a 10 ply muffen soft roster

Are you ready for these shocking numbers: Drai has 2 hits, McDavid has 5...somehow Edmonton is still winning games. Buffalo is leading this division with Eichel (5 hits) and Dahlin (6). Buffalo's next two leading scorers: Olofsson and Skinner. 1 hit each.

But if you can possible handle even more shocking numbers - brace yourself. I am not responsible for the injuries you suffer when you fall out of your chair.....

Pasternak...…. 2 hits.

Marchand....gulp..… 4 hits.

 

[mikeyz]

I went to the Raptors opening night game. So I obviously didn’t see the game, but, from what I have been reading on here nd Twitter, I don’t think I missed much. Lol.

 

[Ports]

Absolutely. The fact Boston plays like that despite having so many little guys only proves that we have a culture issue, not a size issue. I can't blame the players because it's way too oversimplistic. It's the same crop of NHL players others have, from the same leagues, same cultures, same nationalities. Even skilled teams have a wolf pack mentality that the leafs don't have. Unless one of us is in the room there is no way to pinpoint what has caused this attitude. It's beyond the current crop of players because I've watched a lot of them actively defend their teammates when they played on their old teams. Not getting in fights but at least letting your buddy know you're there for him and throwing your wacks and cross checks in retaliation. The only man that was unaffected by this corporate culture was one who didn't know how to control himself and got sent off to the mountains for it. We need to replace that energy somehow. Hell even when guys like Johnsson and Kap played in the A there was this wolf pack mentality. How does our AHL team have it but the Leafs don't

Too many stars who don’t care or won’t pay the price and not enough foot soldiers. Their most effective players right now are on the third and fourth lines because they need to play hard every night to stay in the league. Plus it looks like they want to get the coach fired. Hard to say how much these guys really like each other. Could be a split in the room especially after the contract issues and lack of cap space. Tough to watch guys make big bucks like Nylander and Matthews go for a pleasure skate most nights.

 

[ruaware41]

Are you ready for these shocking numbers: Drai has 2 hits, McDavid has 5...somehow Edmonton is still winning games. Buffalo is leading this division with Eichel (5 hits) and Dahlin (6). Buffalo's next two leading scorers: Olofsson and Skinner. 1 hit each.

But if you can possible handle even more shocking numbers - brace yourself. I am not responsible for the injuries you suffer when you fall out of your chair.....

Pasternak...…. 2 hits.

Marchand....gulp..… 4 hits.

It's not about hits but moreso about how the players on the ice seem to treat the game like a 9-5 desk job instead of a battle. All for one and one for all. I have never seen a team "turn the other cheek" nearly as often as the leafs do. How will players not just do stick fly bys when no one on the team can even bother standing up for themselves or their teammates.

 

[Gabriel426]

You can’t coach toughness. You either have it or you don’t. Too many skilled guys who don’t want to get their noses dirty. I’m not a Babcock fan but Dubas traded or let those Islander players you referred to go. He has traded or failed to resign any players who had grit and gave their money to four of the softest players in the league.

That’s a huge misconception about toughness. How can you not coach that? Go out there and finish your check? Go out there and stand up for your teammates? Even Stamkos got into fight last season where the other player just look at him with the WTF are you doing, Stamkos, and pls don’t tell me Stamkos been fighting since JR hockey. Size also doesn’t matter, look at Tima and Moore on the Leafs. Playing tough, grit and defense is all on coaching. These kids need to play tough, by tough, it doesn’t mean they go out and fight the first guy they see fit but rather finish their checks, stand up for each other and don’t be a marshmallow around the ice.

 

[biotk]

It's not about hits

Then why were the statistics about hits "shocking"?

 

[Ports]

Why do you Marner apologists always need to bring up another Leafs player underachieving?

Both of them sucked ballz tonight. Happy? Does that somehow make up for the fact that Mitchy is massively overpaid for what he brings/has brought to the table thus far and we are essentially handcuffed for the next 4-5 years with the cap, as a result of it?

Seems like yesterday when we complained about being handcuffed with the Kessel, Phaneuf and Clarkson contracts and now this.

 

[Ports]

That’s a huge misconception about toughness. How can you not coach that? Go out there and finish your check? Go out there and stand up for your teammates? Even Stamkos got into fight last season where the other player just look at him with the WTF are you doing, Stamkos, and pls don’t tell me Stamkos been fighting since JR hockey. Size also doesn’t matter, look at Tima and Moore on the Leafs. Playing tough, grit and defense is all on coaching. These kids need to play tough, by tough, it doesn’t mean they go out and fight the first guy they see fit but rather finish their checks, stand up for each other and don’t be a marshmallow around the ice.

That’s my point. It has to do with the size of the heart not size of the body. Matthews and Nylander are both big, strong men but have the heart of a lamb and no coaching will change that.