Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 4-2

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This game was a realization that the top players aren’t nearly as good as what they are being paid. Leafs have an excellent bottom 6. But the top 6 and once again shitty defence will be the downfall of this team. Babcock gets fired at the end of the season and Dubas sees the Leaf media and fans in his nightmares.
 
Bruins fan here and I would like to chime in. Its early in the season and I would give the kids some slack. Marner was your best player in the Playoffs in both years against us. He will be alright.

Well that's not true. He was mediocre at best after the first couple games last year.
 
Miss gardiner, at least he could get the puck moving. So damn sad that a player like ceci is making more than Gardiner. I hope Carolina wins the cup. Doesn’t feel like the same Toronto team. Remember in Ot we would send out willy, Matthews and Jake. Deadly 3 man. The Rilley Johnny T and marner
 
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Matthews and Marner look like they won the lottery and quit their jobs.
It's getting hard to watch these guys blocking the top with salary and lacking key elements beyond skill. Compete, drive train, aggression, etc.

If this keeps up, Matthews should be moved to the wing. He is not displaying what is required at center. His 2 way game has eroded some. He doesn't use his big body enough to protect, shield, etc. He can score but doesn't give much to his teammates as he is on pace for 20 assists. He would be better off on the wing where scoring is his primary focus with less responsibility down the middle for starters.

I much prefer watching the 3rd and 4th lines and shrug when the others step on the ice.
 
Who is the crappy one?
yeah I think Dubas was right to replace the assistant coaches, but how many games does he give Babcock now? It's been 11 and the team is as lackadaisical as the latter part of last year. When I said worse I was talking strictly about structured play and special teams, as I think coaching really isn't doing us any favours
Guys on overdrive say american Thanksgiving
They better be in a playoff spot or not just Babcock will go
 
Matthews "calling out" the team after the loss was good in one sense, but instead of saying "look each other in the eye and be accountable", he should start with "LOOK IN THE MIRROR".
 
Bruins fan here and I would like to chime in. Its early in the season and I would give the kids some slack. Marner was your best player in the Playoffs in both years against us. He will be alright.
What? He was good in game 1 last year but was garbage for the following 6 games. Not sure what you were watching. Matthews was way better in last years series than Marner was.
 
It is still early in the season. Of all the teams that stepped on the gas to begin last season, none won the cup. This is a very talented bunch. They will be fine. Closer to the holiday break we will see what we really have. Come January Matthews and Marner can step on the gas. Why get burned out in October.
 
I only started watching you guys last season, but I have to say that I am dissapointed. I wanted JT to win a cup, even if it wasn't with us, and I thought you guys had as good a shot as anyone.

It's not even that the Leafs are being outplayed - they aren't even entertaining to watch. The other team always seems to make bigger hits, score nice goals, have better passing plays, etc. The Leafs are on the wrong end of every game highlight. Not what I expected with so many electric players.
 
I actually thought they played pretty well last night. The major difference being the Bergeron line as per usual owned the ice every time they were out there and the Matthews line was invisible. I even thought Hutch played well but Matthews has to snap out of this haze. I don't understand how he starts out every season like a house on fire and then falls off a cliff a half dozen or so games in. He doesn't even look like the same player right now. Really disappointed him and Mitch haven't been able to take advantage of playing together. Although, I don't think it's on Mitch. Nylander and Matthews have been our worst forwards over the last few weeks. That's just depressing
 


If Keefe was such a cant miss coaching talent, he would have gotten a job in hockey from someone other than Dubas. He hasn’t.

Keefe would get laughed out of the room at the NHL level. He tries to use scare tactics and tell everyone that he can identify coach killers because he was one himself.

Those tactics don’t work against multi millionaire players who have more leverage than a coach.
 
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If Keefe was such a cant miss coaching talent, he would have gotten a job in hockey from someone other than Dubas. He hasn’t.

Keefe would get laughed out of the room at the NHL level. He tries to use scare tactics and tell everyone that he can identify coach killers because he was one himself.

Those tactics don’t work against multi millionaire players who have more leverage than a coach.
Let it happen. In order to expose other underlying issues we know exist, you have to start cutting the snake until you get to the head. Perfect opportunity to start the dissection.
 
I think it could be more situational, Pasta might be better at certain aspects,but not sure where this 'heart' comes in.I bet if Babs was Bruins coach,no way Bergy ,kissy face and Pasta get to be a line...gotta have a grinder with 2 top players..gotta spread out the scoring...can't have 3 guys who know how to score. Basically ,if Willy were subbed in for Pasta on that line ,he would likely have success as well. Maybe!

can this be anymore MORONIC??????

berg,Pasta,March play grindy hockey

want to know why babs has to put a grinder with matty,nylander

these 2 wallflowers have a COMBINED total of 3 hits on the season.
 
Korshkov is better and plays that style. And he has some top 6 potential to be a complimentary winger like Hyman. I like Marchment but at best hes a 4th liner. I wouldn't mind having both in the lineup tbh. Teams like the Bruins roll those types of players on every line and our guys get their asses handed to them.
with what cap room???
 
Would Pastrnak be the player he is today if the Leafs drafted him instead of Boston? Or would he be a 60-70 pt Nylander? Both were close friends so I imagine must have had some similar personality traits. Nylander was always regarded as the better player from what I've read.
it's a interesting question, no doubt Boston has a team first culture whereas Toronto seems to have a "me first" attitude.
 
This 'style' of no retaliation,non aggressive (physically) hockey ,must be by design. They are going with speed/skill as much as possible. I get it,but I bet it's somewhat embarrassing for a Leaf player deep down to be constantly on the receiving end. Leaf management think it is smart hockey. Perhaps it is! Yet ,somehow it hasn't translated into more Power Plays ,which would justify the '***** hockey ' that they are playing. Also,it's embarrassing as a fan to see the player's not stick up for each other.It must be for them as well.

The low point of the season,thus far ,for me was watching the newly crowned Captain get crunched against the boards by Webber. No retaliation from anyone on the ice and no retaliation after the fact. Clean hit or not,(I don't think it was)that needed to be addressed. That single act made me question whether I really wanted to watch anymore of this brand of hockey. I still am ,but I'm not diggin' it!

The high point of the season for me so far,and I didn't even think he should have a job on the Leafs,was Marincin putting the headlock on Backes and the ensuing take down ,for running Freddy. Muzzin did something similar to kissy-face Marchand later in the game. This is a recent development,maybe they figured that Freddy on the shelf for a while is worth more than a 2 minute PP opportunity to 'make them pay'. I hope the protection continues with even more aggression!

I originally thought that,when the Leafs hired Shanny to be at the helm and his trust in the bright young analytic Gm,Dubas who was mentored by Lou Lam,the talented young players acquired through the draft/trades,along with the high profile coach would finally lead to success. It is hard to criticize the regular season improvement...yet,too easy to make excuses for the playoff exits. I know it's easy to suggest(amongst other deficiencies) that a few tougher players would of helped...but it would of!

This management/coaching strategy of getting players to buy into the discipline of knowing that being tough means you have to 'take the guff and ya suffer' (Stompin'Toms lyrics) need to realize that:

1) Most teams don't have a PP success rate of more than 25% ,so 1 in 4 chances isn't a good rate of 'making them pay for their infractions',it really isn't the best equalizer. Especially if that player gets injured on the play! If other teams know(and they do) that the Leafs don't retaliate,it will be(is) open season on all Leaf players.

2)Relying on the questionable integrity of the refs. The Leafs are one of the fastest/skilled teams but are not getting the calls. So,the strategy of playing nice isn't working!Last in the League over the past 4 years or close to it. Maybe they(the refs) don't like Babs! 4 years and it still isn't working out! Maybe try some other strategy!

3) Intimidation is a real thing,it is used and dealt with in a variety of ways.Anyone who has played competitive physical sports knows this. Leaf management can ask their players to put up with the dirty play,the non calls,etc...let the refs/league do the policing,but they cannot expect the players to not be affected by the intimidation factor.It isn't a realistic expectation.Makes it difficult to feel like you're part of a team when you're not allowed to back each other up.

Anyway,I was almost buying into the attitude of a tough guy being a waste of a roster space or a liability,but after witnessing the first 10 games,I think it's very necessary to have one or two players who won't put up with the other team taking liberties. Even if it means taking a number for later,picking your spots or whatever,I think the young lads would appreciate someone to provide protection. Yes ,it would be great if that player(s) were a decent hockey playeras well,but I'm not sure the Leafs can afford not to have someone who can take care of business!
quality post. :thumbu:
 
I only started watching you guys last season, but I have to say that I am dissapointed. I wanted JT to win a cup, even if it wasn't with us, and I thought you guys had as good a shot as anyone.

It's not even that the Leafs are being outplayed - they aren't even entertaining to watch. The other team always seems to make bigger hits, score nice goals, have better passing plays, etc. The Leafs are on the wrong end of every game highlight. Not what I expected with so many electric players.

The Leafs are one of the least entertaining teams in the league and were last year as well.
 
Some uncomfortable themes are developing.
The Leafs have shown a profound lack of discipline in the last four games — giving opponents 17 power plays, including a pair to the Bruins courtesy of Andreas Johnsson in a perplexing 52-second stretch that allowed Boston to take a 1-0 lead on Tuesday.
They’ve also demonstrated an inability to negotiate tight moments and squeeze out victories. This was a 2-2 game with 20 minutes to play and there wasn’t much push, especially after Brett Ritchie scored off a broken play at 6:35.

What stands out most is how little fun everyone seems to be having.
Whether that’s a product of the sky-high expectations, of the hectic schedule, of all the new faces still searching for a niche — or some combination of those factors — only those on the inside can truly know.

Maple Leafs' Auston Matthews calls out team after Bruins loss - Sportsnet.ca


Interesting quote by Matthews too:

“They kind of do things differently,” he said of Marchand, Pastrnak and Patrice Bergeron. “For us, [the coaches] kind of preach a guy in the slot, a guy on the net and then a guy in the corner, but they’re kind of all over the place. Their ‘D’ get active and it’s really hard to defend and they obviously do a good job of finding each other.”
 
What ****ing part of Mathews game has been great.
The second highest paid player in the game. Wow
If this was a grt game by Mathews we are in trouble.

Jesus buddy don't make it so advious that you hat Marner or Mathews can do know wrong .
Wow just wow.

At least some of us on here state that our core Al have to be better, not just one or 2.

Again watch the game and take you blinders off.
I have no doubt that Mathews has the talent to be the 2nd best player in the league, however he won't ever get there with his mail it in efforts, even in games he plays well you just know he has so much more to give.......
 
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