Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 4-2

[Gabriel426]

Yea, and they have this bro code thing going.

Hit any of them dirty and the other 2 are jumping on you, without thought. Not one of them is 195+lbs
Hit one of AM,WN, MM dirty, and the other 2 will skate away.

I'm not saying be dirty players, or even gritty players, but for the love of god, at least stand up for your mates. You're supposed to be at war with them, not just a bystander.

Maybe petty.... I don't care, just my opinion.

I agree. Hockey is a physical sports and you have to stand tall and big for your brothers on the ice. None of them seem to do that and I think that’s a mentality that the Coach should impose.

 

[Pilky01]

Dubas is the GM he should choose HIS coach, if he's not allowed to do so then there's biiger problems with this franchise than the poor play of the team. I thought the "Richard Peddie" days were behind us............

Which is exactly why he will keep Babcock around for as long as possible. So long as Babcock is still here Dubas has a built in excuse for failure.

 

[Captain Crunch]

we’ll be done if they wait that long. He’s lost and now he is calling out the players more. I almost said i hope we lose the next two so he is fired but thst wouldn’t be true ha. That would probably get their attention focused on them.

That said, i think we are going to lose to SJ and the Habs

I used to want Babcock gone, but lately I have really changed my thinking. I think Dubas needs to go, and Shanahan should certainly accept part of the blame as well. I strongly feel we have some entitled players which is a bad thing. I don’t put all of the blame on the players, because they are looking out for themselves in the end. But how much do they really want to win a championship when they aren’t willing to take some of a discount so that the team can strengthen the areas that need it, like the defense. It is clearly obvious to me that Dubas was not ready for the type of challenge that he encountered in signing these three players. We are in a mess, and it will be very interesting to see how this all pans out. So for me, it’s Dubas and the players, as well as Shanahan that are to blame for the mess that we are in.

 

[Ports]

Yes ,I do,because I'm not seeing it! Have you seen it in recent years? Not since Martin left,even then ,he didn't seem to be ready to rumble either,which made him redundant!

By who? ..Leaf Brass..as I said,they think it's smart hockey! Don't get the retaliation penalty ! That was the norm for years,no call on the initial infraction,but the' take-no-shyte'player would give it back and get 2 minutes for not being disciplined...Not retaliating became the smarter play...but not easy for some players to take....I think the pendulum has swung to far in the Leafs case!

If that’s actually the case this team is doomed. Might as well find a non contact league to play in. It would be very surprising to me that players are actually told not to back each other up especially given the way Shanahan played. Seems Babcocks mentioning the cheap tripping, slashing, hooking penalties they’re getting is a subtle way of insinuating they get them because they never play the body and take the lazy penalty instead.

 

[Gabriel426]

at the cost most likely of another season, what happens if they turn it around, I can't see Babcock being ousted after a successful season? IF Dubas thinks Keefe is the guy he should be coaching the team NOW, have some faith in your decision Kyle and turf your security blanket.............

I think in order for Babs to not get fired, the team needs to make it to the Conf Finals. If that’s the case, I don’t really care who is the coach.

 

[Ports]

Your only believing that because thats what you want to believe. Nylander has been really good this season.

Actually I would like to believe that he’s playing really well but my eyes tell me differently. I guess it depends what you expect out of him. I expect him to work hard on every shift and not avoid contact at every opportunity. His offense is okay but the rest of his game isn’t where it needs to be. I’d rather have Mikheyev at $900k than Willy at $6.9M.

 

[Ports]

I think it could be more situational, Pasta might be better at certain aspects,but not sure where this 'heart' comes in.I bet if Babs was Bruins coach,no way Bergy ,kissy face and Pasta get to be a line...gotta have a grinder with 2 top players..gotta spread out the scoring...can't have 3 guys who know how to score. Basically ,if Willy were subbed in for Pasta on that line ,he would likely have success as well. Maybe!

Hypothetical so it’s hard to say. Pasta plays much harder than Willy. Goes to the dirty areas. Willy at this time is more of a perimeter player. The thing is with the Bergeron line, they are all grinders and scorers while both Matthews and Nylander are non contact skill players who lack the drive and intensity to match them. Johnsson doesn’t have as much skill but plays with the necessary intensity.

 

[rumman]

I think in order for Babs to not get fired, the team needs to make it to the Conf Finals. If that’s the case, I don’t really care who is the coach.

regardless of who the coach is success is what I'm after too, but many in these forums believe Babcock is the main problem with the team going as far as suggesting the players have "quit" on him. If this is true a coaching change should have happened all ready.

I wonder if Keefe will be just as willing to go to the desert each spring and wash Mathew's feet like Babcock has been doing when success still alludes the team?

 

[rumman]

Which is exactly why he will keep Babcock around for as long as possible. So long as Babcock is still here Dubas has a built in excuse for failure.

pretty much.

 

[ACC1224]

Hypothetical so it’s hard to say. Pasta plays much harder than Willy. Goes to the dirty areas. Willy at this time is more of a perimeter player. The thing is with the Bergeron line, they are all grinders and scorers while both Matthews and Nylander are non contact skill players who lack the drive and intensity to match them. Johnsson doesn’t have as much skill but plays with the necessary intensity.

Now you've done it.
Prepare yourself for the onslaught.

 

[Ports]

That’s where you are wrong, I believe coaching can change that, just need to find a way to get the message through their heads.

No you’re wrong. It has nothing to do with the head. Skill players develop the skills to score, not the guts to play a hard,
physical style. Dubas needs to surround them with players who can and will. This is mostly on him.

 

[rumman]

I've seen that movie before, ****ty ending.

how many opportunities have been wasted since 67? Too many to count imo.

 

[Ports]

Now you've done it.
Prepare yourself for the onslaught.

The truth hurts doesn’t it.

 

[rumman]

Which is why we are in so much trouble.

We have moved beyond making hockey decisions and now its just about the higher ups keeping their jobs.

MLSE history implies that losing doesn't significantly reflect incoming revenue, so I wonder how concerned the MLSE board is with team success from a financial point of view?

 

[scotian1]

I agree with Ports assessment. Too many players on this team do not want to get their hair messed up. Matthews should be looking in the mirror and his own eyes. These high income players are simply not playing to their wage level and I don't know whether they can. If they can't this team is screwed.

 

[DarkKnight]

Wow Button is angry a lot, but today he is going off on the Leafs, in particular the "big" guns.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I think this team is underachieving and has been since Christmas.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I agree. Hockey is a physical sports and you have to stand tall and big for your brothers on the ice. None of them seem to do that and I think that’s a mentality that the Coach should impose.

Someone posted that Video a couple days ago where Orr and McLaren beat up the Montreal Canadians.
Every Canadian player knew they were so screwed, yet they all tried to do something anyways.

Marner was willing to stop a slap shot with his face in the playoffs. He should have no problem jumping on a guy like Dougie used too.

Marner was a feisty lil bugger right into the OHL. He used to check half often as well.

He has it in him - lol like a marchant jr.

 

[rumman]

Wow Button is angry a lot, but today he is going off on the Leafs, in particular the "big" guns.

haven't heard today's rant, but I'm pretty sure it's warranted. Speaking on rants here's a oldie, but a goodie from a former consummate player who NEVER mailed it in, enjoy...........

 

[Trapper]

Wow Button is angry a lot, but today he is going off on the Leafs, in particular the "big" guns.

Rightfully so.
Not really much to say about the bottom 6. They have been playing a skilled, hardworking, aggressive style game.

 

[HomerJLeafs]

Interesting quote by Matthews too:

“They kind of do things differently,” he said of Marchand, Pastrnak and Patrice Bergeron. “For us, [the coaches] kind of preach a guy in the slot, a guy on the net and then a guy in the corner, but they’re kind of all over the place. Their ‘D’ get active and it’s really hard to defend and they obviously do a good job of finding each other.”

I think he had it with babcock a season ago.
I do think they dont like eachother and i think Matthews doesnt believe in babcock or babcocks system
If we have to choose between the leader of this team vs the most overrated coach ever i know who im choosing

 

[stickty111]

Actually I would like to believe that he’s playing really well but my eyes tell me differently. I guess it depends what you expect out of him. I expect him to work hard on every shift and not avoid contact at every opportunity. His offense is okay but the rest of his game isn’t where it needs to be. I’d rather have Mikheyev at $900k than Willy at $6.9M.

Your eyes are wrong. Nylander has been one of our best players this season. You think he isn't playing well because he isn't hitting anybody.
I will take the better player which is Nylander.
By the logic you have, you think Patrick Kane is a bad player?

 

[Clark4Ever]

It doesn't matter if Babs is responsible for the effort level of some of our big guns or not. At a certain point, there has to be a new voice in the locker room.

 

[MyBudJT]

Your eyes are wrong. Nylander has been one of our best players this season. You think he isn't playing well because he isn't hitting anybody.
I will take the better player which is Nylander.
By the logic you have, you think Patrick Kane is a bad player?

"One of our best players this season"...

You can't make this stuff up!

Off the top of my head:
Matthews, Marner, Kapanen, Kerfoot, Mikheyev and Tavares all have all played better than Nylander in the games I've watched... Johnsson is pretty close, too.

 

[biotk]

In a post game interview Matthews blamed himself and the other top guys for the teams' poor performance as of late - I am not going to post about that because we all know that, but there also seemed to potentially be a shot fired at the coaching staff and the structure:

"For us, they preach a guy in the slot, a guy on the net, a guy in the corner but they’re (Pasta, Marchand, Bergeron) kind of all over the place. It’s really hard to defend. There’s a reason they’re a top line in the league. They’ve been a top line in the league for a couple of years now."

Seems to me like Matthews is complaining about rigidity and over-coaching. Many will disagree vigorously with any criticism of Babcock, but I have seen many, many times in my life a team springing to life with a coaching change.