Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 3-2 in OT | Down 3-0 in the Series

[Fogelhund]

""

Just when they were needed the most....

 

[Suntouchable13]

what's worked in 55? its ok we can make the trades and miss the playoffs for another 10 years sounds like a fantastic plan

Who says you have to get rid of all of them? Make a shrewd deal or 2 involving a couple of our “core” players. They have done everything except touch the core 4. How come teams that have less talent than us actually score more goals? Florida, Seattle? 40M is a huge waste of cap space if they can’t score much in the playoffs. The way the team is built is broken

 

[Pinto]

You expected this core to actually do something lmao? Crazy people still down playing the importance of Knies in that first round. He was literally on the ice for every OT winner and had the 2nd highest xGF%, just behind Matthews.

I know, crazy of us to think they would when they showed up and beat a much better team than Florida in round 1. Got us again Peasy

 

[seventieslord]

There absolutely is an argument against it. When you have three young superstars you can retool rather than rebuild.
Matthews has looked fine in the playoffs and is rounding into a hell of a two way superstar.

Mitch is a ppg star but seems to disappear under pressure and Willie has always been an enigma.

We have d pieces we can move and we have a young goalie coming up who looks like he may be legit.

The one thing we have not yet done is mess with the big four. Clearly that's our next step.

We also need someone in management that will stand up for the team (that the NHL gives a crap about).
The liberties taken against this team and the imbalance in how things are enforced are beyond gross.

When I heard you say retool instead of rebuild I was highly disagreeing with you until I read further and realized what you meant. Although I would back a full scale down to the studs rebuild at this point, the fact is that three of the big four are big time assets to a lot of NHL teams right now.

And a lot of those teams are up against the cap and we would have to be getting salary coming back the other way. Which means we would be getting capable NHL players. If we do it right we may even get players that are a net positive compared to Matthews and Marner in a playoff environment, Just for less money.

A retool is feasible. But I honestly don't want to see any of the so-called big 4 back. Not one of them, not for one more game.

 

[The Best Leafs Everr]

Well whoever didn't think that the Leafs are getting swept after the firsr 2 games is a joke.

Lol, I was saying the same thing. These guys don't know how to win or don't want to win, but they are all fundamentally flawed.

 

[ToneDog]

Lol, I was saying the same thing. These guys don't know how to win or don't want to win, but they are all fundamentally flawed.

They want to win, just not willing to play outside their comfort zone and do what it takes.

 

[PromisedLand]

They want to win, just not willing to play outside their comfort zone and do what it takes.

Its like wanting an A+ on the exam but not studying for it LOL

 

[The Best Leafs Everr]

They want to win, just not willing to play outside their comfort zone and do what it takes.

That means they don't want to win. To win or a victory needs sacrifices if you don't make them then you don't win.

 

[Nineteen67]

It's not hard, your stars have to perform this time of the year to win...is he being naive, or just letting the core 4 off the hook?

He finally realises that they just may not be good enough. Not a lack of effort, but a lack of ability.

 

[Trapper]

You might have a point...perhaps the way Dubas and Keefe prefer this team to play doesn't work for this team...keeping possession at all cost doesn't work when you're doing it at your own blueline and turning the puck over...remember that spin-o-rama that Dermott tried in OT against the Habs in his own zone to keep possession instead of just shooting the puck out? That also resulted in an OT loss.

Or the drop back passes in the zone or trying to dangle a blue line instead of dumping the puck.
We are giving these players every chance before replacement. If they can’t do it, if we have to Huberdeau someone, then that’s what happens.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I'm still in awe at what a shameful performance our core forwards have put up in this series. Could not have been more wrong about their character or fortitude. "Now that the first round hurdle is passed they're really gonna go on a run now!" What a joke.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Id say last years D was slower. Muzzin's a much worse skater than McCabe and Schenn/Boosh are about on par. Maybe a slight edge to Boosh

Thats fair and i thought they looked real slow last year too. Though Gio does seems a lot slower this year

 

[egd27]

What I can't wrap my head around is how this team, who on paper should be the best that Dubas has assembled, is playing worse hockey than they ever have with this core 4. All the first round exits we've had in the past 7 years, the team has played much better overall. These two series they haven't come close to playing their best.

The only conclusion is that this core 4 doesn't fit well together, doesn't rise up to big moments, are lacking drive and heart, or quite frankly aren't good enough. One or two have to go. I know Tavares should go, but that's going to be difficult. Marner is a great regular season player, but the playoffs are too big a moment for him. Nylander has so much skill that he uses inconsistently. And Matthews is the big centre all good teams need to succeed. He's the only one I'd have difficulty losing, unless he really wants to leave.

Are they a fast team?
Are they a hard forechecking team?
Are they a grinding team?
Are they a physical team?
Are they an opportunistic team?
Are they a disciplined team?
Are they a "safe" team?
Are they a smart team ?

What exactly is the identity of this team, and who is supposed to decide and bring that out to the best of their ability?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Well?

While losing in 7 after coming back would for sure be painful, that gives the Leafs too much respect and makes us too happy even in a loss for that to be their fate. Losing at home in 5 is closer to what I'd expect, but I think the "Leafiest" option is getting swept for the first time in 40+ years. We'd have broken one embarrassing streak (19 year series drought) only to end a sort of respectable streak of having not been swept since the 80s.

 

[egd27]

Do you want to see them win game 4 and extend the series? Or would you rather just put them out of their misery? I don’t know, personally, I still hope to extend the season. Gimme one more game, at least. I just love playoff hockey when the Leafs are still playing. Love the anticipation on game day, and love watching when I have rooting interst. Once Leafs are out, it’s not as enjoyable watching the rest of the playoffs.

Oh they might as well win on Wednesday (and Friday) if only to provide more hope for Leafs Nation before pulling the rug out from under them in Game 6 (or even worse Game 7)

 

[ITM]

Do you want to see them win game 4 and extend the series? Or would you rather just put them out of their misery? I don’t know, personally, I still hope to extend the season. Gimme one more game, at least. I just love playoff hockey when the Leafs are still playing. Love the anticipation on game day, and love watching when I have rooting interst. Once Leafs are out, it’s not as enjoyable watching the rest of the playoffs.

Is retaining the Campbell avatar a commentary on belief against all odds? If it is I can see how the question comes to be; Of course Leafs fans want the Leafs to win. I hope the question was asked as more of an "atta boy" to the fans - these are difficult times to explain and swallow.

I think the problem is akin to watching a person with a substance abuse problem put on their best behavior and reek of the boos or twitch from the drugs and insist -- in convincing fashion despite appearances -- that they're fine when they couldn't be worse.

I think that's where we are now. Only in this instance it's degrees of focus? confidence? courage? because what's happening with the club and what has happened feels existential. Like this can only happen here and cannot happen elsewhere. And it can only happen in Toronto because the situation is the most extreme for better and worse at the same time.

We're the center of the hockey universe but no one told the command crew that the center is an incomprehensible nightmare of a black hole that isn't simply mindlessly consuming matter around it, but completely aware that it is malevolent in it's selection and happy to be seen as such.

For me -- and I'll repeat it every chance I get -- the switch flipped on Salming's Night. If that was the Peter Horachek led Leafs or Imlach's from 67 it shouldn't have mattered...And there's Salming, dying and weeping (along with Sittler and Williams...) and HE'S saying thank you...By God you shift into something elemental as a man and go out on your multi-million dollar shield. If you lose on the scoresheet you punctuate the game with memories of a team that put their whole heart into a game for him to take into his heart for his long journey over the hill so to say.

I often wonder if what sports psychology has done in Toronto is aggregate all possible experiences into a perceived happy middle. And because of that I think shame has been removed and so has anger and so has a hatred for losing. Their kindness towards themselves breeds nothing but acceptance, and if there' one thing Christopher Nolan (on all things black holes)has taught us, it's that some situations have to be changed because it's necessary.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

watch the tnt stream if you can. very enjoyable.

I did for the first two periods last night. Breath of fresh air. It was nice to have the commentators focusing on explaining the plays rather than constantly harp on the Leafs while praising the opposition.

 

[SantosHalper]

He's a Red Wing at heart anyway.

I'd love to get our boy back home, he looked so happy at the alumni game while wearing the winged wheel again.

Jimmy D - Sr. VP of hockey operations
Stevie Y - Ex. VP of hockey operations & GM
Lidström - VP of hockey operations
Shanny - Jr. VP of hockey operations

After that we have to defect Fedorov again and the old band is back together.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Are they a fast team?
Are they a hard forechecking team?
Are they a grinding team?
Are they a physical team?
Are they an opportunistic team?
Are they a disciplined team?
Are they a "safe" team?
Are they a smart team ?

What exactly is the identity of this team, and who is supposed to decide and bring that out to the best of their ability?

Originally, Dubas' plan was to have a fast team even if that included smallish players on offence or defence. He had defencemen who moved the puck quickly and could skate. Then, he became aware/was told that to win in the playoffs you need grinders and players who play physical. So for the past few years, he's tried to build a hybrid team. The problem becomes when the core 4 doesn't produce and the grinders you bring in aren't good or fast enough because you can't pay those kind of players. So now, they are a team with no real identity.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Are they a fast team?
Are they a hard forechecking team?
Are they a grinding team?
Are they a physical team?
Are they an opportunistic team?
Are they a disciplined team?
Are they a "safe" team?
Are they a smart team ?

What exactly is the identity of this team, and who is supposed to decide and bring that out to the best of their ability?

The identity of this team is that they're a bunch of talented soft chokers who can't perform in the playoffs.

The media was talking to Marchant about smack talking and then asked if any of the leafs talk back at him. He replied "Yes, sometimes Marner talks to me about video games or his dog". The whole room exploded in laughter. On no other team would that joke land so hard.

THAT'S how the rest of the league see's this team.

 

[Subway Schenn]

I'm sad. Every year I check out just a little bit more with this team, and I'm afraid one day I won't care about them at all. The current installment clearly don't have 'it'.

How nice were the first couple years after we drafted Willy, Marner and Auston. Hope is nice. What do we have to look forward to now? Keefe being fired? Willy or Auston or both being traded for who knows what? Fun.

A freshly concussed Knies too. We're cursed.

 

[Superstar]

I'm sad. Every year I check out just a little bit more with this team, and I'm afraid one day I won't care about them at all. The current installment clearly don't have 'it'.

How nice were the first couple years after we drafted Willy, Marner and Auston. Hope is nice. What do we have to look forward to now? Keefe being fired? Willy or Auston or both being traded for who knows what? Fun.

A freshly concussed Knies too. We're cursed.

I lost some hope after the 3 of them took the Leafs organization to the cleaners with their contracts...it really showed me what their priorities were - money above all things...and that's never a good look, considering playing hockey was supposed to be their passion since they were kids...all of a sudden, money is the most important thing...I had some cautious optimism because of their potential and talent, but after so many years of playoff failure, they've proven to be money hungry imposters...watch them fight to the death on their next contract negotiations.

 

[Steven1562]

I can't believe they got us to believe again. They fooled us again. Smh to come out in a do or die game to play that way. It was shameful and disgusting. I feel a scorched earth rebuild is needed. From the top down start over again.

 

[hoglund]

I think the big question here is are the Leafs still "elite"

They finished the season in the top 5 of 32 teams in the league, I'd say that's elite.

 

[LaPlante94]

They finished the season in the top 5 of 32 teams in the league, I'd say that's elite.

Florida finished 17th.