Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 3-2 in OT | Down 3-0 in the Series

[JT AM da real deal]

i got a gut feeling Matty is gone folks .. there is a friction between Shanny/board and Dubie on his next contract negotiation .. leafs won't go beyond 15% of CAP where MAC is and McJesus at 15.2% .. matty has apparently asked for more .. i think Leafs tap out at $12.6M per .. you may very well be seeing Matty for last time tomorrow night as a leaf unless he gets his head on straight .. this i have heard now from 2 buddies both of whom are parents .. from my perspective it is time to move him right now when trade value is very high and pick up 5 great assets .. a young fast big potential 1D, a promising potential 1G and 3 1st rounders .. team would get CAP relief to sign ROR and shore up our D

 

[57 Years No Cup]

i got a gut feeling Matty is gone folks .. there is a friction between Shanny/board and Dubie on his next contract negotiation .. leafs won't go beyond 15% of CAP where MAC is and McJesus at 15.2% .. matty has apparently asked for more .. i think Leafs tap out at $12.6M per .. you may very well be seeing Matty for last time tomorrow night as a leaf unless he gets his head on straight .. this i have heard now from 2 buddies both of whom are parents .. from my perspective it is time to move him right now when trade value is very high and pick up 5 great assets .. a young fast big potential 1D, a promising potential 1G and 3 1st rounders .. team would get CAP relief to sign ROR and shore up our D

It's inevitable.

 

[leafan11]

i got a gut feeling Matty is gone folks .. there is a friction between Shanny/board and Dubie on his next contract negotiation .. leafs won't go beyond 15% of CAP where MAC is and McJesus at 15.2% .. matty has apparently asked for more .. i think Leafs tap out at $12.6M per .. you may very well be seeing Matty for last time tomorrow night as a leaf unless he gets his head on straight .. this i have heard now from 2 buddies both of whom are parents .. from my perspective it is time to move him right now when trade value is very high and pick up 5 great assets .. a young fast big potential 1D, a promising potential 1G and 3 1st rounders .. team would get CAP relief to sign ROR and shore up our D

You’re clued in on matthews contract negotiations? , when not a single insider has said a peep about it

 

[seventieslord]

Why are people talking about trading Matthews? Doesn't his NTC kick in this summer? I doubt he'd accept a trade. He'd just ride the situation out to free agency. And knowing he'll be UFA next summer, how much do you really think a team would give up for him? IMO, the best move is to keep Matthews and hope he can be resigned for something less than infinity.

NTC just means the player can choose where he goes. It's rarely, if ever used to actually block any and all trades.

And yes, let's just "hope" he can be resigned. Great strategy! Great asset management.

Ignoring the fact that Eichel is considered by many to be a better player, and is on a better contract, I didn't say we couldn't get a good return for Matthews.

There are still people who think Eichel is better than Matthews? That would be news to me.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

NTC just means the player can choose where he goes. It's rarely, if ever used to actually block any and all trades.

And yes, let's just "hope" he can be resigned. Great strategy! Great asset management.


There are still people who think Eichel is better than Matthews? That would be news to me.

Auston Matthews is 100% going to free agency in a year unless the Leafs give it all up to him this summer. That's why his team asked for the NTC on his final year. There's no debate on this, it's happening. No team is giving up significant assets to trade for him under those conditions. Yes, he might accept a trade. We shouldn't is my point.

 

[seventieslord]

Auston Matthews is 100% going to free agency in a year unless the Leafs give it all up to him this summer. That's why his team asked for the NTC on his final year. There's no debate on this, it's happening. No team is giving up significant assets to trade for him under those conditions. Yes, he might accept a trade. We shouldn't is my point.

Yeah, that's not a good strategy. I'm honestly not sure whether it's worse to overpay him until he's 34, or to just lose him for nothing and get cap space back as an asset. Doing neither would be best but given the choice between those two, I honestly don't know what I would pick with a gun to my head.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Yeah, that's not a good strategy. I'm honestly not sure whether it's worse to overpay him until he's 34, or to just lose him for nothing and get cap space back as an asset. Doing neither would be best but given the choice between those two, I honestly don't know what I would pick with a gun to my head.

I can agree with that, it may be the best strategy to just let him go. $15M would buy a lot of talent. If they can't sign him this summer, the next best move is to trade him at the deadline next February to a top contender, which I assume he would accept (unless we're in a great position in the standings then it gets dicey). I'm just saying if I'm Auston Matthews, there's no way in the world I'm signing this summer and no team would give up a lot for him in a trade if he could even be convinced to accept one. He's practically a dead asset already unless we're lucky enough to keep him at something approaching a reasonable price.

 

[seventieslord]

I can agree with that, it may be the best strategy to just let him go. $15M would buy a lot of talent. If they can't sign him this summer, the next best move is to trade him at the deadline next February to a top contender, which I assume he would accept (unless we're in a great position in the standings then it gets dicey). I'm just saying if I'm Auston Matthews, there's no way in the world I'm signing this summer and no team would give up a lot for him in a trade if he could even be convinced to accept one. He's practically a dead asset already unless we're lucky enough to keep him at something approaching a reasonable price.

History has shown that players this age and caliber are never a dead asset, no matter what their contract situation is.

 

[leafs in five]

Bennett's between-the-legs deke would have gotten him benched by Pat Quinn, remember the tomfoolery comment when Wellwood tried it

 

[JT AM da real deal]

You’re clued in on matthews contract negotiations? , when not a single insider has said a peep about it

I am not clued in at all .. but I have heard same thing from 2 different nhl dads who my kids played with in 2 different age groups and neither family knows da other family .. could be entirely coincidental .. one family in same 97 age group .. maybe i will ask Brian S when he comes to my june pool party

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

History has shown that players this age and caliber are never a dead asset, no matter what their contract situation is.

Players this age rarely get a NTC in their first RFA contract so I'm not sure history is an indicator of the future in this case. Auston holds all of the cards right now. He can dictate his future completely. We can only hope he wants to be a friend.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Yeah, that's not a good strategy. I'm honestly not sure whether it's worse to overpay him until he's 34, or to just lose him for nothing and get cap space back as an asset. Doing neither would be best but given the choice between those two, I honestly don't know what I would pick with a gun to my head.

I think with his injury history you take the safe bet and move him for the bonanza he’s worth now.

 

[seventieslord]

I think with his injury history you take the safe bet and move him for the bonanza he’s worth now.

Yes, I think that is obvious. I was just saying that if I had to choose between the two other alternatives I don't know which I would choose

 

[Gabriel426]

If AM or any other players want to leave, then leave. Leafs should be a team where it is a privilege to play for and not a team where just give you the most money. Just look at how Bruins is built. Every players buy into that culture.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Why are people talking about trading Matthews? Doesn't his NTC kick in this summer? I doubt he'd accept a trade. He'd just ride the situation out to free agency. And knowing he'll be UFA next summer, how much do you really think a team would give up for him? IMO, the best move is to keep Matthews and hope he can be resigned for something less than infinity.

No Move Clause kicks in July 1. He can be traded before then without any problem, and the Leafs can talk to his agent even though a new deal can't be signed until July 1.

 

[LaPlante94]

Did they 'decide' not to be elite anymore, or did we just get shown that they were never elite?

Who knows. Could be both.

 

[Superstar]

Yes, there were reports that San Jose presumably offered JT more, but it made no difference, as he was coming here anyway. But just because someone else was fool enough to offer him more (assuming they did) doesn't mean it wasn't a bad contract. Even if there was no NMC or NTC, how much do you think we could get for him in a trade today? More accurately, how much would we have to add?

Even after holding out, Willy's contract was still good - no way you can call that 'taking them to the cleaners", especially after what the other three were given.

JT certainly could have squeezed the Leafs for more money had he wanted to, since he was being offered more elsewhere...he's one of the biggest names to ever hit free agency.

Willy also took the organization to the cleaners whether you believe it or not...he signed a 6 year deal for $45 million...that's probably around $9 million per for 8 years, which he wasn't close to being worth at the time...Marner and Matthews are worse...Marner signed for 6 years for almost $11 million AAV...what do you think that's equivalent to for 8 years? That's literally McDavid money if signed for 8 years...Matthews at $11.6 million per for 5 years is so egregious, that an 8 year equivalent would be worth more than McDavid's contract. These 3 have been big flops at the most important time of the season...not showing up for game 3 against the Panthers in a do-or-die situation is unacceptable...perhaps it's karma for them being so greedy.

 

[PanniniClaus]

i got a gut feeling Matty is gone folks .. there is a friction between Shanny/board and Dubie on his next contract negotiation .. leafs won't go beyond 15% of CAP where MAC is and McJesus at 15.2% .. matty has apparently asked for more .. i think Leafs tap out at $12.6M per .. you may very well be seeing Matty for last time tomorrow night as a leaf unless he gets his head on straight .. this i have heard now from 2 buddies both of whom are parents .. from my perspective it is time to move him right now when trade value is very high and pick up 5 great assets .. a young fast big potential 1D, a promising potential 1G and 3 1st rounders .. team would get CAP relief to sign ROR and shore up our D

What do you think ROR would sign here for? I say here, because I assume he's gonna take slightly less to go to a contender or he goes for the longest term where he can get it..

 

[Darcy Tucker]

What do you think ROR would sign here for? I say here, because I assume he's gonna take slightly less to go to a contender or he goes for the longest term where he can get it..

He's already on a contender.

 

[PanniniClaus]

He's already on a contender.

Yes - I'm asking how much he will sign for to play with the Leafs or someone else close to a cup..

 

[notDatsyuk]

JT certainly could have squeezed the Leafs for more money had he wanted to, since he was being offered more elsewhere...he's one of the biggest names to ever hit free agency.

Willy also took the organization to the cleaners whether you believe it or not...he signed a 6 year deal for $45 million...that's probably around $9 million per for 8 years, which he wasn't close to being worth at the time...Marner and Matthews are worse...Marner signed for 6 years for almost $11 million AAV...what do you think that's equivalent to for 8 years? That's literally McDavid money if signed for 8 years...Matthews at $11.6 million per for 5 years is so egregious, that an 8 year equivalent would be worth more than McDavid's contract. These 3 have been big flops at the most important time of the season...not showing up for game 3 against the Panthers in a do-or-die situation is unacceptable...perhaps it's karma for them being so greedy.

Again, I don't think there is any proof that JT was offered more. And again, just because someone might have offered more, or that he could have squeezed more here, or even that he had a big name, none of it means the contract was good. It wasn't.

I have no idea why you are talking about 8 year contracts, or guessing what they might have been.

Nylander's cap hit is under $7M per season, and he has consistently performed at a rate easily higher than that, especially when compared to the three Leafs making between 57 and 67 percent more! If anything, he got taken to the cleaners.

I do agree that Tavares and Marner, and to a lesser extent Matthews and even Nylander "have been big flops at the most important time of the season".

 

[Superstar]

Again, I don't think there is any proof that JT was offered more. And again, just because someone might have offered more, or that he could have squeezed more here, or even that he had a big name, none of it means the contract was good. It wasn't.

I have no idea why you are talking about 8 year contracts, or guessing what they might have been.

Nylander's cap hit is under $7M per season, and he has consistently performed at a rate easily higher than that, especially when compared to the three Leafs making between 57 and 67 percent more! If anything, he got taken to the cleaners.

I do agree that Tavares and Marner, and to a lesser extent Matthews and even Nylander "have been big flops at the most important time of the season".

There's no doubt that JT was in high demand and other teams were willing to pay more. It was circulated that San Jose was willing to pay $13 million per. Why wouldn't they? All it cost to sign him was money, not draft picks, nor highly touted prospects, nor important roster players. JT was a franchise centre free agent, only 27 at the time, who was a Hart Finalist twice and almost won the Art Ross one year - lost it in the final game of the season to Benn.

The biggest reason Nylander, Matthews and Marner signed for less term was because it would cost more to buy more UFA years, and Dubas didn't want to go there, despite already overpaying them for their term. It's quite straightforward to compare these 3 to Kucherov's, Draisaitl's and McDavid's 8 year deals.

I bet Marner and Matthews would scoff if they were offered Brayden Point's most recent 8 year $76 million contract extension. Willy might even hesitate to sign it if he was offered that for his new deal. These 3 have literally lost sight of why they even love hockey...it's all about the money now. The Leafs don't need players like these...all the past Cup champions do not have Matthews, Marner or Nylander on their rosters, and that is the truth.

 

[hfman]

I am not clued in at all .. but I have heard same thing from 2 different nhl dads who my kids played with in 2 different age groups and neither family knows da other family .. could be entirely coincidental .. one family in same 97 age group .. maybe i will ask Brian S when he comes to my june pool party

lol this guy is a riot

 

[notDatsyuk]

There's no doubt that JT was in high demand and other teams were willing to pay more. It was circulated that San Jose was willing to pay $13 million per. Why wouldn't they? All it cost to sign him was money, not draft picks, nor highly touted prospects, nor important roster players. JT was a franchise centre free agent, only 27 at the time, who was a Hart Finalist twice and almost won the Art Ross one year - lost it in the final game of the season to Benn.

The biggest reason Nylander, Matthews and Marner signed for less term was because it would cost more to buy more UFA years, and Dubas didn't want to go there, despite already overpaying them for their term. It's quite straightforward to compare these 3 to Kucherov's, Draisaitl's and McDavid's 8 year deals.

I bet Marner and Matthews would scoff if they were offered Brayden Point's most recent 8 year $76 million contract extension. Willy might even hesitate to sign it if he was offered that for his new deal. These 3 have literally lost sight of why they even love hockey...it's all about the money now. The Leafs don't need players like these...all the past Cup champions do not have Matthews, Marner or Nylander on their rosters, and that is the truth.

Yes, "it was circulated". By whom? Any evidence except someone saying it? And you're still missing the point - just because someone else may have been willing to pay him more doesn't mean it was a good idea. If I offered you a million dollars to do my taxes this year, does that mean it's a good idea? And would someone else offering you two million automatically make my offer smart?

Matty and Mitch signed for a shorter term so they could reach free agency sooner. And usually longer term means lower AAV.

And I see you're still lumping Willy in with Matty and Mitch, despite the huge difference.

 

[Superstar]

Yes, "it was circulated". By whom? Any evidence except someone saying it? And you're still missing the point - just because someone else may have been willing to pay him more doesn't mean it was a good idea. If I offered you a million dollars to do my taxes this year, does that mean it's a good idea? And would someone else offering you two million automatically make my offer smart?

Matty and Mitch signed for a shorter term so they could reach free agency sooner. And usually longer term means lower AAV.

And I see you're still lumping Willy in with Matty and Mitch, despite the huge difference.

Tavares had a bunch of meetings with those interested teams and he chose the Leafs. He was being wooed tenaciously with fancy presentations, etc.. People were following it very closely...you could google it.

Longer term does not mean lower AAV when we're talking about buying prime UFA years for star players...so you're telling me Matthews would have settled for Eichel's $10 million AAV for 8 years? At $11.634 million AAV, a reasonable deal at the time would have been an 8 year term for Matthews...for 5 years, Matthews got everything. Dubas literally rocked the GM boat with that contract, and there were agents talking about how Matthews got everything. Marchand even trolled that Marner should get $12 million, and ironically $10.9 million AAV on a 6 year term is around McDavid money on an 8 year term. It's incredible that Dubas conceded everything.

It's quite obvious Dubious didn't value Nylander in the same light as Matthews and Marner, and he was the first to sign among the Leaf RFA's, so he didn't have as much leverage...no way he would have accepted that deal if he knew what Matthews and Marner would have gotten, though he was still overpaid for the term at the time...he just wasn't as overpaid as Matthews and Marner.