Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 3-2 in OT | Down 3-0 in the Series

[Da Mash]

This core is in no way terrible. Don't look at our emotional reactions from last night. lol They are amazing players. Playoffs EVERY year with these guys. It's not because they suck. The playoffs is a bit different and our boys have a harder time adjusting to it.

They are not terrible but they have to be better. All three are in the top 10 salaries in all NHL so expectations should be higher.

We have 10 goals in our last 5 playoff games and those guys none in this series. Unlucky or not it’s the reason we are down 3-0

I still have hope because they are so talented….but it sure seems we need a change.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

This team celebrated the 1st round like it was the Cup they just stopped playing in round 2. Blew their load after 1 damn round lol

Premature Ejaculeaftion. Like many of the posters here.

 

[Trapper]

They're not elite. The season is 82 games, the Panthers have played 10 games, which is a very small sample size. Remember Florida was down 3-1 in games to Boston and barely Bobrovsky saved them from losing in the 1st round 4-1 in games. They're having a great run, but even if they win the cup are they really an elite team? Tkachuk, Bobrovsky and 1 or 2 others are elite.

If the Leafs won the Cup would you be upset if they weren’t really an elite team? If nobody on the team got more than 70 points in a season? If they only had 1 or 2 guys and the rest just hard working blue collar?

 

[WillNy29]

ONE regulation win in 9 playoff games. ONE. ENOUGH SAID.

hey Man the tabs won a cup with 6 regulation wins out of 16 I don't care how they win

 

[capfit9]

hey Man the tabs won a cup with 6 regulation wins out of 16 I don't care how they win

Won’t be us this year that’s for sure

 

[Thornbury]

The Ballard era started when he became majority owner and president of the Maple Leafs from 1972 until he died in 1990.

Starting in 1972 the team was
27-41
35-27
31-33
34-31
33-32
41-29
34-33
35-40
28-37
20-44
28-40
26-45
20-52
25-48
32-42
21-49
28-46
38-38

His last 11 years the team was 301-481.
By then Ballard had time to destroy our once proud franchise.
A whole generation of kids had nothing to cheer for. He made this franchise his toy and wouldn't spend to help it in any way.

That might be why I am a Dubas supporter. I was a fan every day in a decade of horrible hockey.

The 80s were indeed a disaster for the Leafs. Painful memories.

 

[seventieslord]

This has to be a schtick post you do based on your username, right?

What's wrong with it? He's saying to mess with the big 4, which is what most of us have said for years needs to happen, and which the on-ice results have never substantiated more than they do at this moment.

They're young, under contract, super talented, and for whatever reason, when together in Toronto, can't do a goddamn thing in the playoffs. And we're gonna either lose them all for nothing or pay them even more until they're 33-34 and get worse ROI than we did at ages 19-26. We absolutely should be looking at dismantling this core.

Furthermore, no one needs to be really scared of that idea. Although I'd support a full rebuild down to the studs, Chicago-style (you think they regret the nonsensical Debrincat trade now??), we don't have to go that far. If the young 3 were sent packing in similar deals for a young middle of the roster player, a top prospect and a couple of picks, and JT gets sent away just for the cap room. the present lineup suddenly looks a lot like the one that Seattle is rolling with. And assuming those middle of the roster players we take back have some salary, there's about 30M left to immediately improve the roster with trades and we have tons of draft capital to help with that.

A fast retool is possible. And I think a lot of times it would be delusional to think so, but in this case we have three huge assets that a couple dozen other teams would be in on. Losing them for nothing would be the stupidest thing ever, and the way that happens is if we are stupid enough to go back to the well again for another 50 win, 3 playoff win season with this group.

 

[Superstar]

You're absolutely right about them, except, there won't be any fight in the contract negotiations, they're UFAs, they won't have to fight anybody, they can just take the highest offer, which you God damn know they will

They will definitely be squeezing any team they negotiate with for the last penny.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I lost some hope after the 3 of them took the Leafs organization to the cleaners with their contracts...it really showed me what their priorities were - money above all things...and that's never a good look, considering playing hockey was supposed to be their passion since they were kids...all of a sudden, money is the most important thing...I had some cautious optimism because of their potential and talent, but after so many years of playoff failure, they've proven to be money hungry imposters...watch them fight to the death on their next contract negotiations.

The three that took the Leafs to the cleaners were Tavares, Matthews, and Marner, and I don't think either Matty or Mitch would have been given what they did if not for the Tavares deal. That was what triggered the whole mess.

 

[notDatsyuk]

They were down when Lyon was starting for them. Since Bobrovsky has started it's been different. We were elite for 82 games and then decided not to be elite anymore in the games that matter while Florida decided to wait until the games that mattered to be elite. I think I like their formula better than ours if that's the case. How can we be considered elite when we perform like this every playoffs?

Did they 'decide' not to be elite anymore, or did we just get shown that they were never elite?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Everyone join me for Eeyore's Requiem. Bitter, yet yummy drink perfect for us all and what the leafs are doing to us hahaha.

1 1/2 ounces Campari
1/2 ounce Tanqueray gin
1/4 ounce Cynar
1/4 ounce Fernet Branca
1 ounce Dolin Blanc Vermouth
15 drops orange bitters
Stir with ice and garnish with orange peel!

Cheers.
Lol

I'll be having few more Wednesday during the game.

Can't stand gin myself, but that's me. Made some Sex On a Snowbank yesterday and Purple Rain today.

Cheers!

 

[Superstar]

The three that took the Leafs to the cleaners were Tavares, Matthews, and Marner, and I don't think either Matty or Mitch would have been given what they did if not for the Tavares deal. That was what triggered the whole mess.

Tavares was a UFA, he took lower than what San Jose was offering him to come home...Willy sat out for a long time until he got what he wanted.

 

[Squiffy]

Can't stand gin myself, but that's me. Made some Sex On a Snowbank yesterday and Purple Rain today.

Cheers!

One bourbon. One scotch. And one beer. Repeat.

My bottle of Crown took a beating last night.

 

[notDatsyuk]

What's wrong with it? He's saying to mess with the big 4, which is what most of us have said for years needs to happen, and which the on-ice results have never substantiated more than they do at this moment.

They're young, under contract, super talented, and for whatever reason, when together in Toronto, can't do a goddamn thing in the playoffs. And we're gonna either lose them all for nothing or pay them even more until they're 33-34 and get worse ROI than we did at ages 19-26. We absolutely should be looking at dismantling this core.

Furthermore, no one needs to be really scared of that idea. Although I'd support a full rebuild down to the studs, Chicago-style (you think they regret the nonsensical Debrincat trade now??), we don't have to go that far. If the young 3 were sent packing in similar deals for a young middle of the roster player, a top prospect and a couple of picks, and JT gets sent away just for the cap room. the present lineup suddenly looks a lot like the one that Seattle is rolling with. And assuming those middle of the roster players we take back have some salary, there's about 30M left to immediately improve the roster with trades and we have tons of draft capital to help with that.

A fast retool is possible. And I think a lot of times it would be delusional to think so, but in this case we have three huge assets that a couple dozen other teams would be in on. Losing them for nothing would be the stupidest thing ever, and the way that happens is if we are stupid enough to go back to the well again for another 50 win, 3 playoff win season with this group.

You could probably get value for Nylander, as he is underpaid and shows up in the playoffs (despite who he keeps having to play with), but how many teams will give up much for an overpaid winger who disappears in the playoffs? Matthews you're likely to have to take back some bad contract to balance the salary. JT you would have to retain max plus likely add a sweetener to get anyone to take that albatross of a contract.

A really good GM might be able to pull off some quality , but Dubas ain't it.

Better to see what a good coach can do, hopefully with JT on Robidas Island.

 

[seventieslord]

You could probably get value for Nylander, as he is underpaid and shows up in the playoffs (despite who he keeps having to play with), but how many teams will give up much for an overpaid winger who disappears in the playoffs? Matthews you're likely to have to take back some bad contract to balance the salary. JT you would have to retain max plus likely add a sweetener to get anyone to take that albatross of a contract.

A really good GM might be able to pull off some quality , but Dubas ain't it.

Better to see what a good coach can do, hopefully with JT on Robidas Island.

Teams trade star players in their mid 20s for huge returns all the time. Marner and Matthews would get returns on the very high end of the spectrum.

Maybe a few teams wouldn't touch them, but there are still plenty who would. It only takes a couple to start a bidding war.

JT isn't going anywhere for anything valuable, but the other three..... Easily. Three of the most marketable assets in the league

And no one said dubas has to be the guy to make those trades

 

[notDatsyuk]

Tavares was a UFA, he took lower than what San Jose was offering him to come home...Willy sat out for a long time until he got what he wanted.

Yes, there were reports that San Jose presumably offered JT more, but it made no difference, as he was coming here anyway. But just because someone else was fool enough to offer him more (assuming they did) doesn't mean it wasn't a bad contract. Even if there was no NMC or NTC, how much do you think we could get for him in a trade today? More accurately, how much would we have to add?

Even after holding out, Willy's contract was still good - no way you can call that 'taking them to the cleaners", especially after what the other three were given.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Teams trade star players in their mid 20s for huge returns all the time. Marner and Matthews would get returns on the very high end of the spectrum.

Maybe a few teams wouldn't touch them, but there are still plenty who would. It only takes a couple to start a bidding war.

JT isn't going anywhere for anything valuable, but the other three..... Easily. Three of the most marketable assets in the league

And no one said dubas has to be the guy to make those trades

Yes, star players get traded, but a star player with an oversize contract doesn't get as much, and a player (especially with an oversized contract) who disappears in the playoffs, isn't as likely to be considered a star.

Nylander, virtually as good but with a much better contract, is more marketable.

I didn't say Dubas has to be the guy to make those deals, but that he shouldn't be.

 

[seventieslord]

Yes, star players get traded, but a star player with an oversize contract doesn't get as much, and a player (especially with an oversized contract) who disappears in the playoffs, isn't as likely to be considered a star.

Nylander, virtually as good but with a much better contract, is more marketable.

I didn't say Dubas has to be the guy to make those deals, but that he shouldn't be.

Go ahead, tell me where this is wrong...

Lets look at an example. Buffalo trades Eichel. Pre-injury Eichel was not as good as Matthews but before he got hurt many thought he was a top 10 player/talent What do they get back? A first round pick. A guy (Krebs) who was a first rounder the year before. A 2nd round pick. Oh, and a former first round pick who was entering the prime of his career, one of the best forecheckers in the league and someone who just scored in the mid 30's for goals (Tuch). Buffalo did NOT get back any one player even close to Eichel's talent on paper, but what they got back was probably better than what they gave away. Its not easy to make a trade like that, but if you are going to trade Matthews there is no reason you can't get even more than Eichel got. He is going to command a very good NHL player or 2, a first round pick (or multiple ones), and maybe a legit prospect on the verge of making the NHL also.

I guess what I am saying is if you traded Matthews and Marner, how much worse is this team if in return you get 1 or 2 legit top 4 NHL defenders, and 1 or 2 forwards who score 10+ goals less per year but may bring something else to the team, AND possibly some future picks/cap space? I think you can take that team and ride it into the playoffs for the next few years.

 

[ktownhockey]

That explains why it seems he's skating on cement.

If that's true, what a poor run of luck for deadline pickups. The major ones, Foligno back, O'Reilly first the hand and now the foot. You can't even make this stuff up. No excuse, but awful luck.

 

[hoglund]

If the Leafs won the Cup would you be upset if they weren’t really an elite team? If nobody on the team got more than 70 points in a season? If they only had 1 or 2 guys and the rest just hard working blue collar?

No, I'd be happy and admit that we were lucky. Remember Montreal made it to the finals a couple of years ago and they weren't even a team that should have been in the playoffs. They got in because of covid adjusted playoffs format. The Leafs are an elite team that wears themselves out for the playoffs like what Boston did this year.

 

[ShaneFalco]

A flawed team, that's exposed in the playoffs every year
That's the identity.

 

[United35]

Have you seen the playoff record for this team? Saying it's a 3 game losing streak is just ridiculous

That’s what it is, a three game losing streak. Their record is 4-5.

And my point was, despite the potential disappointment, we can move pieces.

This isn’t a team filled with Rickard Wallin and Jason Blake.

Just because you don’t want it, doesn’t mean someone else doesn’t.

When we panic, we make Steen type trades.

And for the record perhaps Leafs Nation could use a trip down memory lane. What did Gilmour and Clark win for us again? Oh but that was Kerry Fraser, and the Habs were just going to give it to us like Florida was this series. Had nothing to do with Gilmour and Clark not being able to get it done either.

Question: Why did Clark never lay out Gretzky and take him out of the series?

So in one breath we cut up a 25 year old and tear the soul out of them 8 days after we were going to build a statue and then we often think back to the 90’s and talk about players of yesteryear who also didn’t get it done in Toronto as if the did.

So isn’t Matthews and the core just doing what some of the folks up in our banners did? Oh the irony.

But I guess that brand of losing delivered by those players was acceptable?

For the record I love Clark and Gilmour but we glorify the retired and $&$& on the current.

Go Leafs Go.

 

[ShaneFalco]

But I guess that brand of losing delivered by those players was acceptable?

They actually played their hearts out and would go through a wall to win. Block shots, drop the gloves, whatever it takes. Our "stars" look like playoff hockey isn't a fit for them. I can stomach losing if they the players give full out effort. And not be "easy tp play against" as we've heard so many times.. How you can compare the two eras.......

And maybe you were going to build a statue after winning one round in decades......

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Why are people talking about trading Matthews? Doesn't his NTC kick in this summer? I doubt he'd accept a trade. He'd just ride the situation out to free agency. And knowing he'll be UFA next summer, how much do you really think a team would give up for him? IMO, the best move is to keep Matthews and hope he can be resigned for something less than infinity.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Go ahead, tell me where this is wrong...

Ignoring the fact that Eichel is considered by many to be a better player, and is on a better contract, I didn't say we couldn't get a good return for Matthews.