Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 3-2 | BREAK UP MATTHEWS AND MARNER!

[Guided by Veseys]

I’ll hot take: looks like Nylander came into camp in wicked shape and Marner and Matthews seem less athletic than ever. Tavares seems to have put some work in this summer as well as his skating seems more effective this season.

 

[ToneDog]

Can we give the have nots on this team a shot on PP1 and with the goalie pulled? Does it have to the the haves all the time? f*** you Keefe.

It was not supposed to be about the 5 losers but it always is. Let somebody else fail ffs.

 

[HolyCrap]

I expected a loss tonight just like lastnight. This team will be fighting for a wildcard spot if theyre lucky.

 

[Captain34]

Dubas is the POS who handed out contracts like they were candycanes who got us into this mess in the first place.

I'm no Tre defender, but the f*** with Dubas and his single series playoff win in 8 years as well. Piss poor cap management, throwing away money, picks like candy. He's as much to blame for this mess out of anyone outside of Shanny and I'd glad hes gone.

I don't disagree and by no means mean that the Leafs should have kept Dubas.

Just how it was done, the timing of it, desparate hire in Tre, never had a proper list of candidates to interview and vet...what did Tre did in his career to justify his hiring?

Shanahan needs to be accountable for this mess he created.

 

[Stephen]

Marner in particular has been a disaster. I Can get behind Knies next to Matthews. Marner deserves relegation to the third line until he sorts his shit out. That line has been ass mostly because of his lack of a brain

Matthews and Marner are inseparable in blame. The only guy who looked credible to me was Matthew Knies because as things around him devolved into chaos, he still went in the corners, still put his body in traffic, still went to the net hard and wasn't pull that pull up, curl back, wrap around garbage Matthews was attempting. Matthews also was making awful passing decisions all night. PP1 pass from the point to no one with a clean look to the net. The diagonal drop pass to a ghost late in the third.

 

[wingman75]

I’ll hot take: looks like Nylander came into camp in wicked shape and Marner and Matthews seem less athletic than ever. Tavares seems to have put some work in this summer as well as his skating seems more effective this season.

My worry has been, since the hot start Willie has had, is that it was all show for the trip to Sweden... And he would cool off after said trip. Hoping to be so wrong.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Auston Matthews is a player with Top 2-3 ability, dogged effort level meets ideal pro frame, can back a defense with speed, a scary shot arsenal, who has come to a lazy cruise control of Top 20-ish player.

Unpredictable effort and engagement level shift to shift. Sometimes he's a power guy who wants to lead by example. Other times he's impersonating a 5'11" skill center afraid of traffic and defers the shot like he's an equal with Marner. Sometimes he wants to be defensively dogged, block shots and penalty kill. Other shifts he's a out for a pleasure skate. Just wasting his abilities and seems to be less and less serious as a player as time goes on.

Marner is awful. Sometimes reminds me of the James Harden quote, I'm not a system player, I am the system. How undisciplined do you have to be to belly flop multiple times on poke checks at opposite ends on the same shift?.

That description is not of someone who should be making 13.5. This is the description of someone who should be making 9.5-10. A guy who IF he figures it out, he’s unstoppable, but he probably won’t. It’s been too long, if he isn’t getting it now, he’s not getting it

Marner’s favourite move is the bellyflop poke check. His second favourite is a turn around shot from the point. His third favourite move is taking a backhand from 20 feet out. He spends more time at the point in the ozone than anywhere else on the ice. He is allergic to the front of the net, and his passes go nowhere.

 

[Nineteen67]

Once again they didn’t show up. Maybe it’s time to look at getting rid of the Arizonnion. A

 

[notbias]

I also would like for them to fix it but I don’t think it’s going to be a simple fix. Their hands are tied with the cap structure and when two of your supposed top players are not getting it done that’s a problem.
what do you work on first and how

I mean, I don't think Marner/Matthews playing like a 2nd line is going to last, so I am probably less concerned about them than most, but it is still concerning to some degree.

I think having a healthy D will help... Liljegren is super underrated, and Timmins being up to speed will be good.

Step 1. Get a fully healthy team
Step 2. Address issues

Maybe an upgrade on D, but like I said, I think the forwards will work themselves out, and honestly, although Woll hasn't looked great, he has been amazing in some games and I'd just like to see him get more reps before we try to do anything drastic there.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

My worry has been, since the hot start Willie has had, is that it was all show for the trip to Sweden... And he would cool off after said trip. Hoping to be so wrong.

Holy shit. I hope not. Now I’m going to have trouble sleeping. Thanks a lot!

 

[Aashir Mallik]

My worry has been, since the hot start Willie has had, is that it was all show for the trip to Sweden... And he would cool off after said trip. Hoping to be so wrong.

If nylander falls off, we fall out of a playoff spot. It’s that simple

He needs to keep up a 100+ point pace and this effort level to keep that 2nd line a 1st line.

Or Matthews and Marner need to wake the f*** up

 

[m1ker]

Can’t even blame the players at this point. It’s 100% coaching. Shoot the puck and get to the net or you don’t play. It’s simple.

 

[ULF_55]

When does the Canucks game start?

They changed their entire team in the offseason and look what happened.

Oh?

Nevermind.

But does the game start?

 

[wingman75]

I mean, I don't think Marner/Matthews playing like a 2nd line is going to last, so I am probably less concerned about them than most, but it is still concerning to some degree.

I think having a healthy D will help... Liljegren is super underrated, and Timmins being up to speed will be good.

Step 1. Get a fully healthy team
Step 2. Address issues

Maybe an upgrade on D, but like I said, I think the forwards will work themselves out, and honestly, although Woll hasn't looked great, he has been amazing in some games and I'd just like to see him get more reps before we try to do anything drastic there.

Rational.

My biggest concern is the goalies because they have no real track record of sustained success.

Agree M&M get on track, or at least are likely to.

 

[PromisedLand]

Honestly just looks flat out bad in general at this point. He looks slower, less creative, his shot is as weak as ever.

Marner hasn't improved, he's become extremely predictable and quite honestly looks to already be regressing.

The frustrating part is that not only did they not contribute offensively; they were instrumental in Leafs getting hemmed in; and against pens' 4th line to boot. They hardly spent time in the offensive zone either.

if you can't dominate offensively; at least play safe hockey; put your shifts in and run out the clock without giving up quality scoring chances or goals against.

These are two highest paid AAV on teh team hell top 5 AAVs in the league. Its getting tiring and frustrating them not even doing simple things correctly

 

[Lemontree]

Every time the pressure builds on Marner, he responds by sulking and playing worse

Dude folds faster than the cowardly lion

Marner folds faster than Superman on laundry day,

 

[TimeZone]

I’ll hot take: looks like Nylander came into camp in wicked shape and Marner and Matthews seem less athletic than ever. Tavares seems to have put some work in this summer as well as his skating seems more effective this season.

I got mocked in an offseason thread for pointing out how Marner looked to be in pathetic shape and built like Bambi in his wedding videos doing his dorky dances.

The guy simply doesn't seem to take his offseason training seriously. The guy makes 11 million dollars a year, yet he comes in with the same muffin shot, mediocre speed on top of being built like your average 14 year old boy year after year. Teams have caught on to this, he hasn't even remotely evolved his game and players/teams have clearly caught on, especially in the playoffs when it comes to essentially just allowing him to shoot from the outside because it's painfully obvious he has a muffin.

In fact, Marner looks significantly slower this year, his skating looks putrid.

 

[BallardEra]

I didn’t get that Marner shot from the corner with the goalie pulled. There is no way he will ever score from there so why even try that crap?

 

[notbias]

Rational.

My biggest concern is the goalies because they have no real track record of sustained success.

Agree M&M get on track, or at least are likely to.

Agreed. No clue what the market is for goalies though, and Woll at least doesn't look shaky even if he has let in some softer goals recently.

There is a big difference in how each goalie gets scored on to me.

Regardless, you just need a goalie to get hot at the right now, Bobrovsky has been terrible for I don't know how many years now and pulled out that last year.

 

[ToneDog]

I expected a loss tonight just like lastnight. This team will be fighting for a wildcard spot if theyre lucky.

No worries, they gonna beat all the top teams. Marner gonna get 100 points in the remaining games. We good.

 

[MoreMogilny]

Matthews and Marner are inseparable in blame. The only guy who looked credible to me was Matthew Knies because as things around him devolved into chaos, he still went in the corners, still put his body in traffic, still went to the net hard and wasn't pull that pull up, curl back, wrap around garbage Matthews was attempting. Matthews also was making awful passing decisions all night. PP1 pass from the point to no one with a clean look to the net. The diagonal drop pass to a ghost late in the third.

I agree. But at the end of the day Matthews is going to be one of your top two down the middle.

I just find Marner a lot more ineffective these days. His decisions with the puck have been questionable at best. He is fumbling constantly. Give Matthews two wingers who will dig in and let them grind it out more.

Marner can play next to Domi and Robertson and see if he finds his game. I know it won’t happen but i would love to see the change for a while.

 

[theTTC]

Can’t even blame the players at this point. It’s 100% coaching. Shoot the puck and get to the net or you don’t play. It’s simple.

Not enough cap space to carry extra players in the press box, so can't swap out guys who aren't performing. Thanks, Dubie.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

If Leafs are still moping along by Christmas, Keefe is gone, right?

It's almost December and the Leafs still haven't escaped their October funk.

 

[Racer88]

I mean, I don't think Marner/Matthews playing like a 2nd line is going to last, so I am probably less concerned about them than most, but it is still concerning to some degree.

I think having a healthy D will help... Liljegren is super underrated, and Timmins being up to speed will be good.

Step 1. Get a fully healthy team
Step 2. Address issues

Maybe an upgrade on D, but like I said, I think the forwards will work themselves out, and honestly, although Woll hasn't looked great, he has been amazing in some games and I'd just like to see him get more reps before we try to do anything drastic there.

I hope you are right because honestly I don’t see that they can do much more than you just outlined. I don’t have a lot of faith in Matthews/Marner, they have been in the league long enough that they should be serious committed players but we are not seeing that.
as far as goalies go with a little more help from the defence they might be serviceable.

 

[Havoc]

We're not even 25% of the season in. ZERO people in here would bet that matthews and marner play like this for the majority of the regular season. Cut the "get rid of them" talks when you know you'll be their cheer leaders soon enough.