Leafs Goaltending Department

[Stephen]

Jeez.

 

[bodechek]

Joseph Woll started his pro career during the 2019/2020 season. Ian Scott 2020/2021 season. Zachary Bouthillier is in the QMJHL and Artur Akhtyamov is in the KHL after the participating in the 2021 under 18 world junior championship. Goalies take the longest to develop. How about we all give them a few years in the minor leagues before we pass judgment

 

[Zonk]

name the last Stanley Cup champs that didn’t have a great goalie. I’ll wait.

On 9 June 2010, Niemi led the Blackhawks to a Stanley Cup championship with a 4–3 overtime win over the Philadelphia Flyers.

 

[McSnypsky]

Jeez.

Briere knows how to run a Biotech company, but what does he know about goaltending?

 

[Stephen]

Joseph Woll started his pro career during the 2019/2020 season. Ian Scott 2020/2021 season. Zachary Bouthillier is in the QMJHL and Artur Akhtyamov is in the KHL after the participating in the 2021 under 18 world junior championship. Goalies take the longest to develop. How about we all give them a few years in the minor leagues before we pass judgment

Take a peek at Boston’s Jeremy Swayman or Dan Vladar making steady early progress in the AHL. Not every goalie prospect starts off like an unplayable tire fire.

 

[cookie]

Jeez.

contrast that with this

 

[Stephen]

contrast that with this

Yeah, I also noticed some Curtis Joseph vibes with Campbell. Posted that in the Campbell thread too!

 

[JKG33]

Out of curiosity - what did he do or say that made you think this? I just have a hard time believing you’ve been able to come to the conclusion that he’s the problem when you’ve met him a “few times”

For sure. I had him as a goalie coach when I was in my early teens, and after a few sessions I knew he was a quack. He spent way too much time on the mental aspect and not enough on actual skills. Dumb shit like packing/unpacking your bag a certain way, visualize success and all those new age mental buzzwords. On the ice he was more concerned with turning guys into perfect little robot clones of his ideal goaltender. He didn't understand that different goalies have different styles/weaknesses.

I moved on to GDI, now called Rink Hockey Academy. They're the best in the business here (They trained Chris Dreidger, as well as just about every goalie in the WHL and NCAA that's from Winnipeg and surrounding area). My coach there tailored my game based on my strengths/weaknesses and adapted his coaching to teach me a style that was best for me. He didn't have some cookie cutter coaching for every goalie. When I needed help on the mental side he fixed me up there too, again with a more personal approach. He told me how and why things work (or don't) for me, as opposed to Briere's "do this cause I said so" style.

Now if you don't believe me that's fine, I wouldn't blame you. I'm just some dickhead on a message board. But one thing I'll never understand is how Briere jumped from being a Jr. A goalie coach in the NAHL, with his own private coaching business on the side, straight to the NHL. Don't get me wrong, the NAHL is a great league if you're trying to go play NCAA. But they aren't known for producing NHLers. So how does this nobody move up from there to the Leafs of all teams? And even more so, how does he stay around this long when in his entire tenure in Toronto he hasn't actually produced a single NHL goalie? Literally all he's done is make Andersen worse, and churn out a revolving cast of backups. No prospect has turned out in his 5+ years. That to me is the most telling of all

 

[JKG33]

Jeez.

That's exactly what I'm talking about in my above post. This dude is the coaching equivalent to a snake oil salesman. It's embarrassing that he's managed to fool Shanahan for this long

 

[Stephen]

For sure. I had him as a goalie coach when I was in my early teens, and after a few sessions I knew he was a quack. He spent way too much time on the mental aspect and not enough on actual skills. Dumb shit like packing/unpacking your bag a certain way, visualize success and all those new age mental buzzwords. On the ice he was more concerned with turning guys into perfect little robot clones of his ideal goaltender. He didn't understand that different goalies have different styles/weaknesses.

I moved on to GDI, now called Rink Hockey Academy. They're the best in the business here (They trained Chris Dreidger, as well as just about every goalie in the WHL and NCAA that's from Winnipeg and surrounding area). My coach there tailored my game based on my strengths/weaknesses and adapted his coaching to teach me a style that was best for me. He didn't have some cookie cutter coaching for every goalie. When I needed help on the mental side he fixed me up there too, again with a more personal approach. He told me how and why things work (or don't) for me, as opposed to Briere's "do this cause I said so" style.

Now if you don't believe me that's fine, I wouldn't blame you. I'm just some dickhead on a message board. But one thing I'll never understand is how Briere jumped from being a Jr. A goalie coach in the NAHL, with his own private coaching business on the side, straight to the NHL. Don't get me wrong, the NAHL is a great league if you're trying to go play NCAA. But they aren't known for producing NHLers. So how does this nobody move up from there to the Leafs of all teams? And even more so, how does he stay around this long when in his entire tenure in Toronto he hasn't actually produced a single NHL goalie? Literally all he's done is make Andersen worse, and churn out a revolving cast of backups. No prospect has turned out in his 5+ years. That to me is the most telling of all

Really interesting read to get this perspective. I'm not a goalie expert but I've been a fan of the position for a long time and like keeping tabs on the trade around the league.

I've heard guys like Marty Biron and Jarmo Kekalainen talk about identifying good modern goalies and it's a similar shopping list of mental game, technical game and physical frame, and I've long suspected there was something missing with the technical game in the Leafs goalie factory from identifying talent to developing it. When I look at Garrett Sparks as the only big AHL product to roll off the assembly line the, it was really shocking to see a guy at the NHL level basically rely on pure athleticism, not tracking the puck properly, not using his frame and just guessing/flailing wildly. It's like he didn't learn anything down there and just came up winging it. I know the Leafs had Francois Allaire and Rick St. Croix during the Brian Burke era but whatever we seemed to acquire guys, it was big, athletic reflex stoppers who didn't have the technical structure: Gustavsson, Rynnas, Owuya. It's like they fall in love with the pure athleticism and aren't looking for anything else.

Then I contrast this with NHL teams that seem to consistently find good goalies: the mini goalie factory the LA Kings have with Billy Ranford and it's like they have a Goalie Rescue program, just rebuilding athletes like Campbell, Petersen, Martin Jones into quality NHL goalies over the years. Mitch Korn with his work in Washington with guys like Holtby, Grubauer, Varlamov, etc. Columbus with Korpisalo, Merzlikins, Tarasov, hopefully VV.

 

[JKG33]

Really interesting read to get this perspective. I'm not a goalie expert but I've been a fan of the position for a long time and like keeping tabs on the trade around the league.

I've heard guys like Marty Biron and Jarmo Kekalainen talk about identifying good modern goalies and it's a similar shopping list of mental game, technical game and physical frame, and I've long suspected there was something missing with the technical game in the Leafs goalie factory from identifying talent to developing it. When I look at Garrett Sparks as the only big AHL product to roll off the assembly line the, it was really shocking to see a guy at the NHL level basically rely on pure athleticism, not tracking the puck properly, not using his frame and just guessing/flailing wildly. It's like he didn't learn anything down there and just came up winging it. I know the Leafs had Francois Allaire and Rick St. Croix during the Brian Burke era but whatever we seemed to acquire guys, it was big, athletic reflex stoppers who didn't have the technical structure: Gustavsson, Rynnas, Owuya. It's like they fall in love with the pure athleticism and aren't looking for anything else.

Then I contrast this with NHL teams that seem to consistently find good goalies: the mini goalie factory the LA Kings have with Billy Ranford and it's like they have a Goalie Rescue program, just rebuilding athletes like Campbell, Petersen, Martin Jones into quality NHL goalies over the years. Mitch Korn with his work in Washington with guys like Holtby, Grubauer, Varlamov, etc. Columbus with Korpisalo, Merzlikins, Tarasov, hopefully VV.

I appreciate that. I'm actually in a very unique personal situation here. The Leafs have always been my favorite team, but I cheated a bit by cheering for LA when they acquired Mike Richards (somewhat "local" guy from Kenora). I've followed both teams ever since. Even more so, I've been a huge fan of Campbell ever since his first WJC. As a goalie I fell in love with his style, incredibly athletic and somewhat of a throwback. Not entirely unlike Quick. I was absolutely shocked when he never made the jump to the NHL in Dallas, who were desperate for a quality young goalie. Now when Campbell got sent down to the ECHL Idaho Steelheads in 2016, I was playing for the WSHL's Jr Steelheads. We often practiced before/after the ECHL team, so I got to spend some time watching Campbell practice and got to meet him. Unreal goalie and an unreal person. He was only there a couple months but everyone in that organization had good things to say, right down to the PA announcer.

I was thrilled when LA traded for Campbell that summer. I had already seen them turn Quick, Bernier and Jones into legitimate NHL goalies. If you look at my post history I'm pretty sure I said Campbell would be an NHL starter when LA was done with him. Fast forward and now they've turned Kuemper's career around, in addition to Campbell and Petersen playing phenomenal as well. Needless to say I was even more thrilled when my favorite goalie got traded to my truly favorite team in Toronto.

Apologies for the tangent there, but I've been wanting to tell that story on here. I agree with you 100% on LA, WSH, CBJ and NYI. Absolute goalie factories. Ian Clark in Vancouver (formerly Columbus) is phenomenal too. As is Roland Molanson, who had Markstrom in Vancouver and now Blackwood in New Jersey. I don't have great things to say about St. Croix, another Winnipeg guy who I've dealt with. But at least he has legitimate pro experience as a coach unlike his replacement Briere. It's a damn shame Allaire was let go.

Sparks had talent, I'm not sure how sharp mentally he was but the talent was there. I just hope Woll doesn't get ruined by Briere too. He seems like a solid prospect from a strong USA hockey system

 

[Mr Hockey]

For sure. I had him as a goalie coach when I was in my early teens, and after a few sessions I knew he was a quack. He spent way too much time on the mental aspect and not enough on actual skills. Dumb shit like packing/unpacking your bag a certain way, visualize success and all those new age mental buzzwords. On the ice he was more concerned with turning guys into perfect little robot clones of his ideal goaltender. He didn't understand that different goalies have different styles/weaknesses.

I moved on to GDI, now called Rink Hockey Academy. They're the best in the business here (They trained Chris Dreidger, as well as just about every goalie in the WHL and NCAA that's from Winnipeg and surrounding area). My coach there tailored my game based on my strengths/weaknesses and adapted his coaching to teach me a style that was best for me. He didn't have some cookie cutter coaching for every goalie. When I needed help on the mental side he fixed me up there too, again with a more personal approach. He told me how and why things work (or don't) for me, as opposed to Briere's "do this cause I said so" style.

Now if you don't believe me that's fine, I wouldn't blame you. I'm just some dickhead on a message board. But one thing I'll never understand is how Briere jumped from being a Jr. A goalie coach in the NAHL, with his own private coaching business on the side, straight to the NHL. Don't get me wrong, the NAHL is a great league if you're trying to go play NCAA. But they aren't known for producing NHLers. So how does this nobody move up from there to the Leafs of all teams? And even more so, how does he stay around this long when in his entire tenure in Toronto he hasn't actually produced a single NHL goalie? Literally all he's done is make Andersen worse, and churn out a revolving cast of backups. No prospect has turned out in his 5+ years. That to me is the most telling of all

He was teaching you the foundation on positioning and how to block shots,etc ... you had to use that along with your own skill set to figure out how keep improving your game ... NHL players are always developing there game some way, its all mental

 

[JKG33]

He was teaching you the foundation on positioning and how to block shots,etc ... you had to use that along with your own skill set to figure out how keep improving your game ... NHL players are always developing there game some way, its all mental

His one size fits all approach obviously works for some, but theres a reason my play drastically improved when I made the switch. Winnipeg hasn't produced much in the way of NHL goalies lately, but the ones that have made it were either trained by Rick St. Croix (older generation, probably in their 30's at the youngest now) or GDI (Chris Dreidger and Cal Pickard are some names people should recognize). I can't think of a single one who trained under Briere.

Additionally I ran through some of the names he's coached at the Jr A and college level. He had Cam Talbot for 1 season as a backup in Alabama-Huntsville, and Cal Petersen for a whopping 2 games with Topeka. That resume is quite sparse for a supposed NHL goalie coach.

 

[Mr Hockey]

His one size fits all approach obviously works for some, but theres a reason my play drastically improved when I made the switch. Winnipeg hasn't produced much in the way of NHL goalies lately, but the ones that have made it were either trained by Rick St. Croix (older generation, probably in their 30's at the youngest now) or GDI (Chris Dreidger and Cal Pickard are some names people should recognize). I can't think of a single one who trained under Briere.

Additionally I ran through some of the names he's coached at the Jr A and college level. He had Cam Talbot for 1 season as a backup in Alabama-Huntsville, and Cal Petersen for a whopping 2 games with Topeka. That resume is quite sparse for a supposed NHL goalie coach.

The players shoot too good these days. You can't rely just on skill and reaction. You need a that robotic positioning as a starting point and then use your skill/reaction to make the save ... robotic style is a less stressful, way to play in a very stressful game .... you can turn a 1000 different saves into just 10 different types of saves, by positioning and metal manipulation

 

[McSnypsky]

That's exactly what I'm talking about in my above post. This dude is the coaching equivalent to a snake oil salesman. It's embarrassing that he's managed to fool Shanahan for this long

Yeah its weird, I wonder if he knows Melnyk

 

[Mr Hockey]

 

[cookie]

A little article/interview about Jack Campbell’s road.
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020...-soup-really-does-relish-that-type-of-a-game/

 

[Stephen]

This is what I would refer to as Politically Correct Goalie Speak, but Campbell is clearly in an audition phase now.

 

[Stephen]

The players shoot too good these days. You can't rely just on skill and reaction. You need a that robotic positioning as a starting point and then use your skill/reaction to make the save ... robotic style is a less stressful, way to play in a very stressful game .... you can turn a 1000 different saves into just 10 different types of saves, by positioning and metal manipulation

Martin Biron breaks it down as 3 factors, technique, physique and a mental game, which can also be described as a compete/battle personality to make the second or third effort.

 

[Le Cobra]

Yeah, I also noticed some Curtis Joseph vibes with Campbell. Posted that in the Campbell thread too!

JC = CJ

 

[Le Cobra]

I appreciate that. I'm actually in a very unique personal situation here. The Leafs have always been my favorite team, but I cheated a bit by cheering for LA when they acquired Mike Richards (somewhat "local" guy from Kenora). I've followed both teams ever since. Even more so, I've been a huge fan of Campbell ever since his first WJC. As a goalie I fell in love with his style, incredibly athletic and somewhat of a throwback. Not entirely unlike Quick. I was absolutely shocked when he never made the jump to the NHL in Dallas, who were desperate for a quality young goalie. Now when Campbell got sent down to the ECHL Idaho Steelheads in 2016, I was playing for the WSHL's Jr Steelheads. We often practiced before/after the ECHL team, so I got to spend some time watching Campbell practice and got to meet him. Unreal goalie and an unreal person. He was only there a couple months but everyone in that organization had good things to say, right down to the PA announcer.

I was thrilled when LA traded for Campbell that summer. I had already seen them turn Quick, Bernier and Jones into legitimate NHL goalies. If you look at my post history I'm pretty sure I said Campbell would be an NHL starter when LA was done with him. Fast forward and now they've turned Kuemper's career around, in addition to Campbell and Petersen playing phenomenal as well. Needless to say I was even more thrilled when my favorite goalie got traded to my truly favorite team in Toronto.

Apologies for the tangent there, but I've been wanting to tell that story on here. I agree with you 100% on LA, WSH, CBJ and NYI. Absolute goalie factories. Ian Clark in Vancouver (formerly Columbus) is phenomenal too. As is Roland Molanson, who had Markstrom in Vancouver and now Blackwood in New Jersey. I don't have great things to say about St. Croix, another Winnipeg guy who I've dealt with. But at least he has legitimate pro experience as a coach unlike his replacement Briere. It's a damn shame Allaire was let go.

Sparks had talent, I'm not sure how sharp mentally he was but the talent was there. I just hope Woll doesn't get ruined by Briere too. He seems like a solid prospect from a strong USA hockey system

this is like an NHL insider article. Thanks for sharing!

 

[selltrade]

Ian Scott on leafs taxi squad as freddy is hurt. Practiced today with leafs. So woll can stay with marlies and Scott can get some practice time in and then join woll on marlies

 

[JKG33]

this is like an NHL insider article. Thanks for sharing!

My pleasure, the kind words are much appreciated. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Campbell can do in Toronto if he's given a shot at taking the starters role, something he hasn't had since playing for the Ontario Reign

 

[Joey Hoser]

What a weird point to make. Who would just keep playing him every game even if he is playing bad? If he keeps playing well then keep playing him.

Nobody needs to make a decision right now that's permanent for the rest of the season. Why would you do that?

 

[tellermine]

On 9 June 2010, Niemi led the Blackhawks to a Stanley Cup championship with a 4–3 overtime win over the Philadelphia Flyers.

Oh but Niemi was good goalie years to come. He did well in Sharks.