Leafs Goaltending Department

[baton elevated]

I find we are not dedicated to pickingthe best goalie when available early in the draft. The glaring failure was not taking Hart when he was offered up on a platter.
All this goalie voodoo nonsense is bunk. Sometimes you have to plug your nose and dive in.
Potvin was our only in house homerun. Rask was.......but we know how that went.
Whether it's poor scouting or team philosophy it isn't working.
There is a guru that is about to shake free this year, his first name eludes me at the moment. They were discussing him on the Fan a couple of days ago. He has developed or righted more goalies than anyone else in the league.
He won't come cheap (no issue there) but will be highly sought after.

Mitch korn?? Not sure if this is the guy.

 

[123offtheglass]

Good scouts but maybe not goaltending wise. They take a while to develop and Dubas has only been in charge of influencing or making those decisions for a short while. I like that they went after a European goalie in Artur Akhtyamov in 4th round of 2020 draft. I don't know anything about him other than that he's put up good numbers, especially in comparison to Yaroslav Askarov of Nashville who is a stud.

 

[Buds17]

There's probably only going to be so much cap allocated to goaltending for the "now" (which might not necessarily be a bad thing altogether). As such, it potentially becomes tougher to identify the best solution. Drafting requires patience and developmental time. Trading requires having expendable assets of quality. Free agency requires a certain amount of cap space and putting forth the winning bid.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

sorry is he in the HOF?

Probably should be one day.

 

[Faltorvo]

Probably should be one day.

i give him about the same chance as Spezza

 

[Le Cobra]

I don't think goalies are voodoo. It's a misunderstood science.

One amazing quote I'm paraphrasing now is Jarmo Kekekalainen talked about how CBJ looked for goalies who had the size and athleticism to develop a technical game but the compete level to make the second and third save. So it's a mix of having the right body type, the right systematic approach and the head for the game. We certainly saw that on display with Korpisalo and Merzlikins playing completely out of their minds last summer.

And while Connor Hellebuyck is fresh on our minds, I forget who the coach was who was working with him, but was credited with helping him rebuild his game to his Vezina caliber by helping him focus or something like that. If I can find it I'll share it.

Guys like Bill Ranford have developed a number of goalies for the LA Kings over the past decade, turning completely random free agent signings like Martin Jones and Cal Petersen into starting material, rehabbing Jack Campbell, etc.

So anyway, we don't find the right athletes and we don't seem to program them very well either.

Is it Lyle Mast or Stephen Valiquette?

 

[Le Cobra]

I think we need a goalie coach like Tretiak was in Chicago in the 90s he helped coach two goalies named Belfour and Hasek.

maybe make Belfour our goalie coach no get Reimer back since his favourite goalie is Belfour that could work out.

otherwise I think the best place to draft goalies from is Russia. There is a rookie I think will be a future NHL starter Timur Bilyalov. We were rumoured to be looking at him a while back

 

[hotpaws]

I think we need a goalie coach like Tretiak was in Chicago in the 90s he helped coach two goalies named Belfour and Hasek.

maybe make Belfour our goalie coach no get Reimer back since his favourite goalie is Belfour that could work out.

otherwise I think the best place to draft goalies from is Russia. There is a rookie I think will be a future NHL starter Timur Bilyalov. We were rumoured to be looking at him a while back

The problem with Bilyaliov is he’s listed at 5’10” and chances are he might be shorter than his listed height .

 

[Joey Hoser]

When you consider that there are only 1-3 quality goaltenders that come out of every draft, it's pretty reasonable that we haven't developed one since 2016.

NHL Draft: It Ain't Easy Picking Goalies

 

[613Leafer]

We haven't internally developed a starting goalie, whether drafted, undrafted, or a young goalie we traded for who wasn't already proven, since Potvin in the early 1990s. I know Shanahan did a pretty big overhaul of the scouting/development departments when he got here, but if goaltending wasn't one that he addressed, then he definitely should.

Having Reimer as the high water mark for developed goalies over the last ~25 years is pretty sad. Freddie has been significantly better than any other goalie we've had in the cap era, but I still don't trust him to be the backbone to a Cup contending team, and he seems to be getting worse the last two years.

 

[Spirit of 67]

You can't hold decades of failure against this current regime.
They've changed up a lot of things in effort to properly develop not just goalies but all types of players. Something we've traditionally sucked at.
Currently, it's too early to tell but right now, goaltending is a massive Achilles Heel.

 

[Alamo Leafer]

sorry is he in the HOF?

Compared to Andersen, YES!

 

[Stigma]

Imagine that the Leafs could have easily drafter Carter Hart instead of Yegor Korshkov.

Yep. It's not even one of those "hindsight" situations. At that time, the majority of us were screaming Hart of Debrincat on this forum. Like, 95% of us. Easy choices served on a platter. That decision, to me, was one of the worst draft decisions the Leafs made in the last 5 or 6 years.

 

[LeafGrief]

Yep. It's not even one of those "hindsight" situations. At that time, the majority of us were screaming Hart of Debrincat on this forum. Like, 95% of us. Easy choices served on a platter. That decision, to me, was one of the worst draft decisions the Leafs made in the last 5 or 6 years.

That is 1000% looking at the draft in hindisght. I had a similar conversation on reddit not too long ago and I went and found the old live and post draft threads. There's never much of a consensus from screaming hockey fans on the internet, and while Hart and Debrincat did have their acolytes, so did players like Benson, Asplund, Girard, and Dahlen. I think I wanted Will Bitten lmao. It's true that nobody wanted Korshkov, but it's not true that Hart or Debrincat was so obvious that even the fans saw it. I think Asplund was actually the most popular name I found in the reddit thread.

 

[DarkKnight]

I was really happy to pickup Woll and Scott, to me they both were intriguing adds to become a future goalie for us, hasn’t worked out to date.

 

[baton elevated]

Yep. It's not even one of those "hindsight" situations. At that time, the majority of us were screaming Hart of Debrincat on this forum. Like, 95% of us. Easy choices served on a platter. That decision, to me, was one of the worst draft decisions the Leafs made in the last 5 or 6 years.

Probably why Hunter is not a GM. He had a lot of misses after the obvious choices.
We could have done better just going with the central drafting list.

 

[Notsince67]

I thought I'd start this thread to spotlight an issue with the Toronto Maple Leafs that I've noticed for a long time but we've never really had one place to talk about it.

Whatever you think of the Leafs goaltending strength at the NHL level, it seems like the organizational machinery behind scouting, drafting/signing/acquiring and developing goalies at the ECHL and AHL level has been quite ineffective producing NHL viable goalies during this time. Compared to the detailed skills development and thinking, personnel and resources invested in other parts of the organization during the Shanaplan Era, you never hear too much about the goaltending department.

Since the Shanaplan Era started, we've drafted Joseph Woll, Ian Scott, Zachary Bouthillier and Artur Akhtyamov, so to be fair, not a lot of assets have been expended on the goalie department. Woll came through the college route, Scott has been derailed by injuries, Bouthillier likely doesn't have NHL potential and Akhyamov is a darkhorse in Russia, playing in their junior system. So even an optimist would have to file the best of this group under the long term project heading.

In terms of AHL and ECHL development, the Leafs system has produced barely 2 goalies since 2016. Garrett Sparks flamed out as an NHL backup, and Kasimir Kaskisuo aged out of the system and has continued his AHL career elsewhere with the Nashville organization. Antoine Bibeau was traded fairly early in his development.

So the question is, do we have a problem with amateur scouting? Do we have a problem setting aside more draft picks to restock the system with better goalie athletes? Do we have a goalie coaching problem with Steve Briere? Why are we unable to build our AHL goalies into serviceable NHL talent like Bill Ranford in LA or Mitch Korn in Washington/Islanders? Could this problem be impacting the quality of our NHL goaltending?

If there are any goalie experts among us it would be interesting to hear your thoughts!

Without going too far back in time, it might be more relevant to look at the actions closer to this time.
Andersen sucked last year and the leafs were reluctant to play Campbell for any sustained time. They granted the mantle of irrefutable starter to Andersen who will never get pulled. The difference in difficulty between the the NHL and everywhere else in goaltending is huge. You cannot develop a goaltender without NHL icetime. Both Campbell and Hutch need to play. If you cant trust them, get rid of them. You begin by fixing goaltender development there and give goalies a path to play and win a job.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I thought I'd start this thread to spotlight an issue with the Toronto Maple Leafs that I've noticed for a long time but we've never really had one place to talk about it.

Whatever you think of the Leafs goaltending strength at the NHL level, it seems like the organizational machinery behind scouting, drafting/signing/acquiring and developing goalies at the ECHL and AHL level has been quite ineffective producing NHL viable goalies during this time. Compared to the detailed skills development and thinking, personnel and resources invested in other parts of the organization during the Shanaplan Era, you never hear too much about the goaltending department.

Since the Shanaplan Era started, we've drafted Joseph Woll, Ian Scott, Zachary Bouthillier and Artur Akhtyamov, so to be fair, not a lot of assets have been expended on the goalie department. Woll came through the college route, Scott has been derailed by injuries, Bouthillier likely doesn't have NHL potential and Akhyamov is a darkhorse in Russia, playing in their junior system. So even an optimist would have to file the best of this group under the long term project heading.

In terms of AHL and ECHL development, the Leafs system has produced barely 2 goalies since 2016. Garrett Sparks flamed out as an NHL backup, and Kasimir Kaskisuo aged out of the system and has continued his AHL career elsewhere with the Nashville organization. Antoine Bibeau was traded fairly early in his development.

So the question is, do we have a problem with amateur scouting? Do we have a problem setting aside more draft picks to restock the system with better goalie athletes? Do we have a goalie coaching problem with Steve Briere? Why are we unable to build our AHL goalies into serviceable NHL talent like Bill Ranford in LA or Mitch Korn in Washington/Islanders? Could this problem be impacting the quality of our NHL goaltending?

If there are any goalie experts among us it would be interesting to hear your thoughts!

I'm not sure scouting has really been an issue. Woll and Scott were both very solid prospects at their respective draft positions. Both big guys with excellent fundamentals. Akhtyamov is intriguing as well with his size and athleticism. Its too early to call any of them busts as they're all still 22 and under. Its not looking good for Scott with his health and huge delay in development though. I would like to see us take the best goalie in the draft at some point if management and Scouts feel he has the makings of an NHL starter. It sucks that we had 1st chance in the 2nd round to take Hart who was the best goalie and imo the most fundamentally sound goalie in the draft since probably Price. We already had 3 potential superstar forwards and a still young D man in Rielly and it would've been nice to have a stud Goalie prospect in the pipeline.

As far as development goes I would say it hasn't really looked good for Briere. Other than Campbell we haven't much consistency or promise in any of the tenders we've had in the organization. I wouldn't mind moving on from him if we have an opportunity to add someone different. I kind of want someone who has played in the NHL recently like what the Habs just did hiring Burke to coach Price and Bobby Lu in Florida rather than hiring another Allaire type whose teachings might be outdated.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'm not sure scouting has really been an issue. Woll and Scott were both very solid prospects at their respective draft positions. Both big guys with excellent fundamentals. Akhtyamov is intriguing as well with his size and athleticism. Its too early to call any of them busts as they're all still 22 and under. Its not looking good for Scott with his health and huge delay in development though. I would like to see us take the best goalie in the draft at some point if management and Scouts feel he has the makings of an NHL starter. It sucks that we had 1st chance in the 2nd round to take Hart who was the best goalie and imo the most fundamentally sound goalie in the draft since probably Price. We already had 3 potential superstar forwards and a still young D man in Rielly and it would've been nice to have a stud Goalie prospect in the pipeline.

As far as development goes I would say it hasn't really looked good for Briere. Other than Campbell we haven't much consistency or promise in any of the tenders we've had in the organization. I wouldn't mind moving on from him if we have an opportunity to add someone different. I kind of want someone who has played in the NHL recently like what the Habs just did hiring Burke to coach Price and Bobby Lu in Florida rather than hiring another Allaire type whose teachings might be outdated.

I think you look at another goalie coach if Andersen's replacement or Woll, Scott, etc. do not develop very well.

It's kind of hard to judge Briere when he has a mentally weak Andersen as his main project, and I would say he has done everything he realistically could to get the most out of Andersen. Andersen just does not have more than he has shown us to this point.

I want to see what he has done with Woll in all of this time that he had with the Leafs to see if he has made major improvements. In his first game he looked pretty good. Maybe a bit rusty, but he was a lot more calm and composed with his positioning than he looked for the most part last year. If he was able to iron out those issues, Woll could probably be our #3 next year.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I think you look at another goalie coach if Andersen's replacement or Woll, Scott, etc. do not develop very well.

It's kind of hard to judge Briere when he has a mentally weak Andersen as his main project, and I would say he has done everything he realistically could to get the most out of Andersen. Andersen just does not have more than he has shown us to this point.

I want to see what he has done with Woll in all of this time that he had with the Leafs to see if he has made major improvements. In his first game he looked pretty good. Maybe a bit rusty, but he was a lot more calm and composed with his positioning than he looked for the most part last year. If he was able to iron out those issues, Woll could probably be our #3 next year.

Agreed. I view it the same way as a coach or a Gm. You could teach someone everything you can or in a GMs case, try everything when it comes to assembling a team but in the end its on the players to get the job done.

Briere must be doing something right because Scott gave the staff a ton of credit for his turn around in that memorial cup season. Still wouldn't mind the Sean Burke type of hire though.

 

[Joey Hoser]

The only real mistake they've made recently was drafting Korshkov when Carter Hart was available. That's not just hindsight either. He was the best goalie prospect in awhile, and I wanted him at the time. Would have lined up well with the end of Andersen's contract.

 

[Mr Hockey]

The only real mistake they've made recently was drafting Korshkov when Carter Hart was available. That's not just hindsight either. He was the best goalie prospect in awhile, and I wanted him at the time. Would have lined up well with the end of Andersen's contract.

Leafs were probably happy with andersen and had intentions of locking him up long term since he was also pretty young, there was no need to take a goalie that high

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Wrong thread

 

[bodechek]

If Woll is our oldest goalie prospect, then it is too early to tell. It is no secret that it takes some time for goalies to develop. There has only been an exceptional few who made an impact right away after being drafted. Unfortunately, fans are going to have to be patient. We can all thank useless JFJ for trading Rask away when he was touted the best goalie prospect outside of the NHL. I'm hopeful that Wall and Scott will develop into a great goalie tandem. But as for the Leafs' current state, weak goaltending is killing this team. Hopefully Campbell will be back very soon

 

[Cypruss]

I'm sure there is a zamboni driver somewhere that would be a significant improvement. Campbell can't come back fast enough!!