Post-Game Talk: Leafs Eliminated.

[sunstersun]

Few things that really stood out to me this series.

1. Our lack of foot speed was very evident. We just aren't a really fast team anymore. Florida skated better than us overall.

2. Our stars still don't react well to physicality.

3. Trying to make a cute play versus simple hockey hurt us.

4. One goal from Matty and Marner this series doesn't cut it. It's unacceptable.

How sad? We're both slow and not physical.

What a disaster.

 

[wingman75]

I'd rather a 3-4 rebuild and a chance to win with a different locker room vs running it back with the exact same one that has failed for 7 years, for exactly the same reason. Lack of effort, lack of heart.

We got a serious reality check, we have the more skilled team by a COUNTRY mile. You know what won the series ? Playing with maximum effort and the correct mindset.

I don't think the problem is lack of effort or heart. I think it is lack of brains and will. You have to play a certain way in the playoffs, some of these guys refuse.

It's like some of them are trying to fit the square peg in the round hole, over and over and over... while the round peg is sitting on the floor next to them and they know it will fit, but their ego is so big they won't give it an honest try.

 

[ToneDog]

Well they did score 3 today, but the ref screwed up.

If the usual suspects stick around we should be hearing this for another year along with the Tavares goal called back due to the Holl pick.

 

[GoonieFace]

Woll's lateral movement and puck tracking need a lot of work. He is terrible on wrap arounds and several times would make an awkward save on an ordinary shot then slide far out of position. It's immaterial that he managed to not get burned on any of these plays. They're a symptom of a goalie who isn't ready to start in the NHL and these faults in goaltending techniques would show over the long haul.

Maybe so, but goaltending wasn’t the real issue.

 

[Arzak]

I have a bad feeling winning 1st round after 20 years could be enough to save Dubas and Keefe.

btw can we stop calling Nylander "core 4"? He is neither taking 10mill nor playing like shit, so not sure why are we grouping him with dead weight.

 

[sunstersun]

I have a bad feeling winning 1st round after 20 years could be enough to save Dubas and Keefe.

btw can we stop calling Nylander "core 4"? He is neither taking 10mill nor playing like shit, so not sure why are we grouping him with dead weight.

Core 1?

 

[Cynical]

One big srewup by Dubas is who he surrounded Matthews, Marner and Nylander with when they were younger. They have now developed into soft guys who would rather skate away from the puck than take a hit and play it. Dubas really screwed that up. Should have surrounded these guys with a bunch of veterans who could actually show these guys how to play.

That's not Marleau.

 

[Nineteen67]

Who are we replacing him with? Are we ready for a 3-4 year rebuild?

Something like Power, Tuch, and some other youngsters and picks

 

[Eye Test]

Rielly and Nylander are the only core guys that actually showed up every single night and played with f***ing energy and effort that you can be proud of. We must hold on to them at all costs. I'm open to moving Matthews/Marner.

As great as Matthews has been here for us, this is now the 7th year where he failed to show up in the playoffs. Round 1 he was decent, 0 goals in round 2 is unacceptable. I don't care if it's f***ing Hasek in the other net, 11.5M and you're apparently the Ovechkin of this generation and 0 goals ? My plan for next year would be as follows

1) Have a conversation with Matthews right now, figure out where his heads at and what he wants in terms of his future. Try and extend him before July 1st, if you can't you have to trade him. We cannot afford to lose him for nothing, it will be catastrophic for this teams future. That's the first conversation I have, before I even talk to Marner.

2) Look to move Marner, if Matthews is locked up long term I'm shopping Marner. He's not built for the playoffs, guy is straight up terrified, his numbers made him look a lot better than he really was. Complete non-impact when you need him most. What I'd look for in a trade is either two very gritty/physical top 6 players or a legitimate #1D. We keep Matthews/Nylander as the core forwards, Tavares we can't move. Marners entitled attitude is just unacceptable, and the softness he shows in the playoffs is infuriating. Getting punched in the face and you're smiling.

3) Coaching change, Keefe is a likeable guy but he's unable to adjust and seems to get out coached in every single series and for whatever reason can't get his team to start on time.

4) Re-sign Schenn at all costs, try to re-sign ROR if the price makes sense and just go from there.

Pretty much agree.

Resign accari kampf as well. Hell even ZAR who I hate played wel early on he can be the 13F and lafferty can resign for cheap.

I’m just the most torn at 34. Best leaf well ever see and he has no heart. (No Sundin is not better. Yes I watched every game of his). I don’t know what we could get in a return that would make me trade 34 even though he’s a loser.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I have a bad feeling winning 1st round after 20 years could be enough to save Dubas and Keefe.

btw can we stop calling Nylander "core 4"? He is neither taking 10mill nor playing like shit, so not sure why are we grouping him with dead weight.

I think if Dubas is extended, the contract was sorted out way before these playoffs.

I don't see how you can extend him.based on these playoffs.

I said a while ago that I believe a contract was already signed earlier in the season and that these playoffs would have no bearings.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I actually don't think Dubas was a bad call, he's done some good supporting things. His flaw is, and always has been, sticking by his core that produces good analytics results. But when the chips are down in the playoffs and analytics are less relevant, they just can't get it done.

He deserves to be fired on that merit.

Florida traded Huberdeau after a President's trophy win and a second round epic disappointment .. the Leafs clung to their core after they let a shitty Montreal all team come back from a 3-1 series deficit and win a series.

He made a lot of moves to support that core .. and they failed.

I'm glad you brought up the Huberdeau example. he's a guy that lit up the regular season but that they couldn't justify re-signing for the money he wanted given his playoff performances.

This sounds familiar.

 

[DarkKnight]

I’ll never get over that goal call. Feels like we deserved that game, but we put ourselves in that tenuous position.

 

[Cynical]

Something like Power, Tuch, and some other youngsters and picks

So you want to trade a 25 year old elite scorer who's not even in his prime for picks and younger players with the hope one of them can turn into him?

Matthews is the one core player who actually knows how to play along the boards, hit and take hits. He just needs to be surrounded by skilled guys who can do the same. The issue is more Marner, and Tavares. They need to replace those guys with better skaters who can play tough. The skating and being able to take a hit became huge again in these playoffs. Someone needs to open up the ice for Matthews. If you look at these playoffs Tkachuck did nothing and neither did Barkov.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Maybe the Senators finally get their revenge in the playoffs?

Please don't even say that right now, I don't think this board has enough mental health specialists for that lol

 

[LeafsandSharksfan]

Wining the cup is a huge mountain to climb and I think breaking the curse this year finally gave us an objective view of how far away we are from really contending. The Panthers provided no more challenge than your average second round team imo.

 

[leafsrdue]

This is painful to say. Sam Bennett would look good with Matthews. He was a beast in this series.

 

[Cynical]

This is painful to say. Sam Bennett would look good with Matthews. He was a beast in this series.

They need guys like this with Matthews instead of too many guys like Marner. Bennet can also skate better than Marner.

 

[Niagara Bill]

I think you keep Matthews, but you need your second and third best players to be tougher than Marner. And they need to get out of the Tavares contract somehow. The issue is their 4 main guys are all perimeter oriented guys who can't operate in these playoffs situations. Nylander has speed so he's able to use that to wreck havoc on the defense.

I think Marner and Tavares are the two this team really needs to move on from. They also just need better skaters all around. The Leafs just looked absolutely slow against both teams. No more trades for slow footed guys who are over the hill. Get some guys like Lafferty and Kampf who can skate and hit but have better skill. Your best guys can't be guys who can't play in the rough areas and also can't skate. If you look at the teams that beat the Leafs it was really the third liners who gave the most trouble because of their skating ability.

JT is not a perimeter guy. He takes a beating, with no one coming to help. He does not skate well for sure but he heads for the front of the net.

 

[justashadowof]

Maybe so, but goaltending wasn’t the real issue.

Goaltending would've turned out to be a real issue if the star talent had delivered otherwise. We just never got to that point.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I have a bad feeling winning 1st round after 20 years could be enough to save Dubas and Keefe.

btw can we stop calling Nylander "core 4"? He is neither taking 10mill nor playing like shit, so not sure why are we grouping him with dead weight.

Because after next year he's going to be asking for 10+ million. I don't think he's worth it.

 

[Nineteen67]

So you want to trade a 25 year old elite scorer who's not even in his prime for picks and younger players with the hope one of them can turn into him?

Matthews is the one core player who actually knows how to play along the boards, hit and take hits. He just needs to be surrounded by skilled guys who can do the same. The issue is more Marner, and Tavares. They need to replace those guys with better skaters who can play tough. The skating and being able to take a hit because huge again in these playoffs. Someone needs to open up the ice for Matthews. If you look at these playoffs Tkachuck did nothing and neither did Barkov.

It’s a tough trade, but one of them has to go and they better get it right.

 

[Stephen]

Yeah Woll was decent but he was flopping around a lot. He still needs to work on his fundamentals. He didn't look sound. Maybe that comes with more experience.

He seems really good fundamentally and plays a quiet game, absorbing pucks and calming things. What he hasn't shown yet or doesn't have is that casually high end athleticism or explosiveness in his movements.

 

[Nineteen67]

JT is not a perimeter guy. He takes a beating, with no one coming to help. He does not skate well for sure but he heads for the front of the net.

Tavares is an overpaid JVR.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Lol, sucks to be the guy that believed. I was a nonbeliever.

If you(general you, not you personally) didn't believe in this core, you were proven right. Personally, I'd much, much rather be proven wrong and have the team do better.

This is an era wasted. No one that has ever cheered for the Leafs should be happy with this. The most potential the Leafs have had in decades and it was all for nothing. Being right, being wrong, it doesn't matter...the era was wasted for every fan. Everyone, and I mean everyone, loses.

 

[ToneDog]

thats the right move IMO

as long as Tavares's contract is on the books Leafs should not look to go for the cup. They should use this period wisely and retool/rebuild.

The window is closed for the next 2 to 3 years IMO, Leafs gotta have a foresight and do the right thing. Bring in a new GM and let him get this roster ready to compete within 3 to 4 years time

If they can find and trade for the next Shesterkin/Sorokin, they'd be set in goal for the next decade. If that guy is Askarov, go after him hard. One thing you cannot do is have Dubas making trades for any of the 3 amigos.