Rumor: Leafs considering stripping John Tavares of captaincy (per Kypreos)

[PromisedLand]

quite frankly... I'd let JT ride out the last year as captain. It is not JT's fault Dubas f***ed up the RFA signging of mattews and marner; and then did F-all to address defense and goaltending or heck even depth scoring or big bodies getting the likes of f***ing malgins and petans

the only "Drama" we need next season is Marner. We don't need the "C" drama here. Tavares apparently gave a discount to sign with the Leafs meanwhile the pieces of trash in both matthews and especially marner got rfa deals that were even better than ufa deals that kucherov signed.

Let next year be about what we can get in a package for kicking marner the F out of town LOL

 

[hotpaws]

quite frankly... I'd let JT ride out the last year as captain. It is not JT's fault Dubas f***ed up the RFA signging of mattews and marner; and then did F-all to address defense and goaltending or heck even depth scoring or big bodies getting the likes of f***ing malgins and petans

the only "Drama" we need next season is Marner. We don't need the "C" drama here. Tavares apparently gave a discount to sign with the Leafs meanwhile the pieces of trash in both matthews and especially marner got rfa deals that were even better than ufa deals that kucherov signed.

Let next year be about what we can get in a package for kicking marner the F out of town LOL

apparently based on rumors Mathews and Marner also gave discounts on their rfa deals so either all 3 are ''pieces of trash'' or none of them are

 

[kevsh]

Has to go to Nylander.

He can talk to the press.
He can tell his teammates to grow up.
He committed the rest of his career to the team.

No one else meets that criteria.

Oh please no.

Guy that refuses to take a hit can never wear the "C" for any self-respecting Canadian hockey team. He's also way too laid back, the opposite of a guy that hates to lose/driven to win.

On the upside, I think he's by far more mature than Mitch and Auston and yes he does deliver great individual performances in the playoffs, but he doesn't elevate those around him. Talk to the press? Honestly, that's completely irrelevant to anyone except the MLSE board. Signed long-term yes, but with the money they threw at him does it really reveal his commitment to the team or he's just laughing all the way to the bank?

He's not the guy, but admittedly there isn't a lot of options with this group. But I think all of this is a moot point as we all know when JT is gone (or stripped of the "C") it's going to AM.

 

[ULF_55]

Oh please no.

Guy that refuses to take a hit can never wear the "C" for any self-respecting Canadian hockey team. He's also way too laid back, the opposite of a guy that hates to lose/driven to win.

On the upside, I think he's by far more mature than Mitch and Auston and yes he does deliver great individual performances in the playoffs, but he doesn't elevate those around him. Talk to the press? Honestly, that's completely irrelevant to anyone except the MLSE board. Signed long-term yes, but with the money they threw at him does it really reveal his commitment to the team or he's just laughing all the way to the bank?

He's not the guy, but admittedly there isn't a lot of options with this group. But I think all of this is a moot point as we all know when JT is gone (or stripped of the "C") it's going to AM.

"self-respecting Canadian hockey team"

Toronto Maple Leafs

Hmmm?

At least Nylander was Canadian born.

Maybe Fraser ... just leave it unfilled if Tavares leaves.

 

[ACC1224]

Oh please no.

Guy that refuses to take a hit can never wear the "C" for any self-respecting Canadian hockey team. He's also way too laid back, the opposite of a guy that hates to lose/driven to win.

On the upside, I think he's by far more mature than Mitch and Auston and yes he does deliver great individual performances in the playoffs, but he doesn't elevate those around him. Talk to the press? Honestly, that's completely irrelevant to anyone except the MLSE board. Signed long-term yes, but with the money they threw at him does it really reveal his commitment to the team or he's just laughing all the way to the bank?

He's not the guy, but admittedly there isn't a lot of options with this group. But I think all of this is a moot point as we all know when JT is gone (or stripped of the "C") it's going to AM.

He wasn’t too mature in the playoffs when he refused to run the set play that was called.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Oh please no.

Guy that refuses to take a hit can never wear the "C" for any self-respecting Canadian hockey team. He's also way too laid back, the opposite of a guy that hates to lose/driven to win.

On the upside, I think he's by far more mature than Mitch and Auston and yes he does deliver great individual performances in the playoffs, but he doesn't elevate those around him. Talk to the press? Honestly, that's completely irrelevant to anyone except the MLSE board. Signed long-term yes, but with the money they threw at him does it really reveal his commitment to the team or he's just laughing all the way to the bank?

He's not the guy, but admittedly there isn't a lot of options with this group. But I think all of this is a moot point as we all know when JT is gone (or stripped of the "C") it's going to AM.

"Refuses to take a hit" isn't quite accurate.

Hits taken: 5v5 - all
Knies - 123 - 126
Bertuzzi - 117 - 122
Kampf - 105 -114
Holmberg - 102 - 107
Tavares - 92 - 112
Nylander - 75 - 93
Matthews - 72 - 86
Jarnkrok - 71 - 75
Gregor - 65 - 66
Domi - 62 - 68
Marner - 61- 77
Robertson - 56 - 63
McMann - 52 - 55
Reaves - 51 - 51
Dewar - 21 - 22

That highlighted comment eliminates Matthews and Marner even moreso.

I do agree he's too laid back, although in a different way to JT.

 

[ULF_55]

"Refuses to take a hit" isn't quite accurate.

Hits taken: 5v5 - all
Knies - 123 - 126
Bertuzzi - 117 - 122
Kampf - 105 -114
Holmberg - 102 - 107
Tavares - 92 - 112
Nylander - 75 - 93
Matthews - 72 - 86
Jarnkrok - 71 - 75
Gregor - 65 - 66
Domi - 62 - 68
Marner - 61- 77
Robertson - 56 - 63
McMann - 52 - 55
Reaves - 51 - 51
Dewar - 21 - 22

That highlighted comment eliminates Matthews and Marner even moreso.

I do agree he's too laid back, although in a different way to JT.

I should have added, and a man of the people.

 

[Maple Leaf]

I should have added, and a man of the people.

View attachment 893145

Looks like my aunt

 

[ULF_55]

Looks like my aunt

Family resemblance?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Looks like my aunt

Nylander is the one on the left, not the right.

 

[Gabriel426]

It is quite sad that instead of saying what a great Capt, JT led charge and won the Cup for the Leafs and now is taking a huge discount to sign this extension to make sure he retires as a Leafs, we are discussing whether or not he should be strip of being Capt.

This is what happens when you don't produce in the playoffs.

 

[Tak7]

It is quite sad that instead of saying what a great Capt, JT led charge and won the Cup for the Leafs and now is taking a huge discount to sign this extension to make sure he retires as a Leafs, we are discussing whether or not he should be strip of being Capt.

This is what happens when you don't produce in the playoffs.

He held up his end of that contract - it was always going to be painful the final year or two, but even a slow year last season he put up 65 points.

I do think you can extract another year of decent performance out of him next season if he's stapled to Marner's line and has Mitch driving play for him. Otherwise, you're really just wasting him on your roster.

 

[therealkoho]

He has been here for 6 yrs and despite the talents and team, only managed to lead the Leafs to ONE first round series win. Plus not being the best player in any of the 7 series in 6 years.

Why is he the Captain again? Is it because he came home at UFA?

He has been here for 6 yrs and despite the talents and team, only managed to lead the Leafs to ONE first round series win. Plus not being the best player in any of the 7 series.

Why is he the Capt? Is it bc he came home when he hits UFA?

you can apply this to any of the big four(5?)

 

[Apex Predator]

apparently based on rumors Mathews and Marner also gave discounts on their rfa deals so either all 3 are ''pieces of trash'' or none of them are

They gave discounts?

 

[Gabriel426]

you can apply this to any of the big four(5?)

Pretty much.

 

[Gabriel426]

He held up his end of that contract - it was always going to be painful the final year or two, but even a slow year last season he put up 65 points.

I do think you can extract another year of decent performance out of him next season if he's stapled to Marner's line and has Mitch driving play for him. Otherwise, you're really just wasting him on your roster.

That’s the thing.
He needs PP1 time and need to live off the other big 3.

 

[hotpaws]

They gave discounts?

yup , the exact same discounts JT gave that he's so beloved for .

Friedman said Dubas believed and Elliot didn't hear otherwise that the Yotes were going to offer sheet AM at the full 20% allowed under the cap which would have been about 16m per year at that time and Marner said he was offered an offer sheet that would have paid him more .

 

[Tak7]

That’s the thing.
He needs PP1 time and need to live off the other big 3.

And?

Did you expect something different in years 6 & 7 of the deal?

 

[hotpaws]

And?

Did you expect something different in years 6 & 7 of the deal?

this board has been making excuses for his play literally from his second year here

JT was signed to help this team take the next step , it's spun it's wheels since he's been signed , NYI on the other hand has had the most success they've had since their early 80's dynasty teams the second after he walked

 

[Gabriel426]

And?

Did you expect something different in years 6 & 7 of the deal?

If different means Leafs would had won a Cup or two by year 6 or 7, yes, I expected it to be different.

As a player. His decline is expected but after watching him more over the past 6 years, he is really not as good on the defensive side as I thought. I was not expecting Bergy level but he is not even at Coyle’s level.

 

[Apex Predator]

yup , the exact same discounts JT gave that he's so beloved for .

Friedman said Dubas believed and Elliot didn't hear otherwise that the Yotes were going to offer sheet AM at the full 20% allowed under the cap which would have been about 16m per year at that time and Marner said he was offered an offer sheet that would have paid him more .

If this is true why didn’t he just wait? I know some are desperate to try and rationalize those guys gave us discounts but they didn’t. They continue to not give us a discount. The core 4 took the money and ran.

 

[Tak7]

If different means Leafs would had won a Cup or two by year 6 or 7, yes, I expected it to be different.

As a player. His decline is expected but after watching him more over the past 6 years, he is really not as good on the defensive side as I thought. I was not expecting Bergy level but he is not even at Coyle’s level.

this board has been making excuses for his play literally from his second year here

JT was signed to help this team take the next step , it's spun it's wheels since he's been signed , NYI on the other hand has had the most success they've had since their early 80's dynasty teams the second after he walked

He came as advertised.

Feels like some have wildly unrealistic expectations of what he was. He held up his end of the deal. The organization is the one that failed to live up to their end

 

[hockeywiz542]

LEAFS NOTES: Kyle Dubas delves into his 'biggest mistake' in new book and, no, it wasn't the Tavares signing

While Toronto's former general manager doesn't regret pursuit of John Tavares and a multi-year contract, the fallout had consequences.

torontosun.com

The past year in Pittsburgh has given Kyle Dubas time to reflect on his eventful years as Maple Leafs general manager.

While there were various on-ice accomplishments, multiple 100-point seasons for the team and some feel-good stories, playoff success eluded him, tied directly to contract difficulty with the NHL’s salary cap after he out-bid many teams for John Tavares with a seven-year, $77-million US offer.

In a new book by Craig Custance, an ESPN reporter now working for The Athletic, the entire Tavares pursuit by Dubas and his 10 years in Toronto are part of The Franchise: The Business Of Building Winning Teams.

Dubas has no regrets about the Tavares deal, with a year still to run on it, that’s caused inherent headaches for replacement Brad Treliving, but there are aspects of it he’d want back.

“The biggest mistake I think I’ve made in my whole time here has been not taking care of the three incumbent contracts,” Dubas told Custance. “(William) Nylander was up, (Mitch) Marner and (Auston) Matthews could have been done on July 1 extensions.”

Dubas laments not making more progress on all of those before Tavares, though he did talk to the trio about the impact winning the J.T. sweepstakes would have on their future standing.

“The thing I learned was once we signed John to the (AAV) we did, it lifted the lid on the entire ceiling,” he said.

Others have since come to Dubas’ defence and in the book, Darryl Belfry, then a member of the Leafs hockey office in player development, reminds that COVID-19’s fallout led to the flat cap at the time and history could have judged Dubas differently.

“What would the cap be, $90 million?,” Belfry theorized. “Kyle would never say it, but I will. You have a world shut down, it’s a flat cap for multiple years and you’re stuck holding the bag on a projection. You didn’t miscalculate, it’s an act of nature that beat you.”

 

[hotpaws]

LEAFS NOTES: Kyle Dubas delves into his 'biggest mistake' in new book and, no, it wasn't the Tavares signing

While Toronto's former general manager doesn't regret pursuit of John Tavares and a multi-year contract, the fallout had consequences.

torontosun.com

The past year in Pittsburgh has given Kyle Dubas time to reflect on his eventful years as Maple Leafs general manager.

While there were various on-ice accomplishments, multiple 100-point seasons for the team and some feel-good stories, playoff success eluded him, tied directly to contract difficulty with the NHL’s salary cap after he out-bid many teams for John Tavares with a seven-year, $77-million US offer.

In a new book by Craig Custance, an ESPN reporter now working for The Athletic, the entire Tavares pursuit by Dubas and his 10 years in Toronto are part of The Franchise: The Business Of Building Winning Teams.

Dubas has no regrets about the Tavares deal, with a year still to run on it, that’s caused inherent headaches for replacement Brad Treliving, but there are aspects of it he’d want back.

“The biggest mistake I think I’ve made in my whole time here has been not taking care of the three incumbent contracts,” Dubas told Custance. “(William) Nylander was up, (Mitch) Marner and (Auston) Matthews could have been done on July 1 extensions.”

Dubas laments not making more progress on all of those before Tavares, though he did talk to the trio about the impact winning the J.T. sweepstakes would have on their future standing.

“The thing I learned was once we signed John to the (AAV) we did, it lifted the lid on the entire ceiling,” he said.

Others have since come to Dubas’ defence and in the book, Darryl Belfry, then a member of the Leafs hockey office in player development, reminds that COVID-19’s fallout led to the flat cap at the time and history could have judged Dubas differently.

“What would the cap be, $90 million?,” Belfry theorized. “Kyle would never say it, but I will. You have a world shut down, it’s a flat cap for multiple years and you’re stuck holding the bag on a projection. You didn’t miscalculate, it’s an act of nature that beat you.”

''Dubas laments not making more contract progress with the core 3 before July 1" the idiot said in an interview at that time he was purposely going to slow play negotiations with them , i guess believing he could get them to bend to his iron will and take discounts , once Willie held out and got Dubas to cave KD basically dropped his pants and bent over in AM's and MM's negotiations .

he is being truthful about one thing however and that is signing JT to the highest cap hit in the NHL at that time did ''lift the lid on the entire ceiling''

no idea why he's even commenting on his time here other than he's an attention whore and being the GM of the Pens ranks him behind even the Steelers water boy so i'm guessing he misses the attention he had in Toronto

 

[Stephen]

LEAFS NOTES: Kyle Dubas delves into his 'biggest mistake' in new book and, no, it wasn't the Tavares signing

While Toronto's former general manager doesn't regret pursuit of John Tavares and a multi-year contract, the fallout had consequences.

torontosun.com

The past year in Pittsburgh has given Kyle Dubas time to reflect on his eventful years as Maple Leafs general manager.

While there were various on-ice accomplishments, multiple 100-point seasons for the team and some feel-good stories, playoff success eluded him, tied directly to contract difficulty with the NHL’s salary cap after he out-bid many teams for John Tavares with a seven-year, $77-million US offer.

In a new book by Craig Custance, an ESPN reporter now working for The Athletic, the entire Tavares pursuit by Dubas and his 10 years in Toronto are part of The Franchise: The Business Of Building Winning Teams.

Dubas has no regrets about the Tavares deal, with a year still to run on it, that’s caused inherent headaches for replacement Brad Treliving, but there are aspects of it he’d want back.

“The biggest mistake I think I’ve made in my whole time here has been not taking care of the three incumbent contracts,” Dubas told Custance. “(William) Nylander was up, (Mitch) Marner and (Auston) Matthews could have been done on July 1 extensions.”

Dubas laments not making more progress on all of those before Tavares, though he did talk to the trio about the impact winning the J.T. sweepstakes would have on their future standing.

“The thing I learned was once we signed John to the (AAV) we did, it lifted the lid on the entire ceiling,” he said.

Others have since come to Dubas’ defence and in the book, Darryl Belfry, then a member of the Leafs hockey office in player development, reminds that COVID-19’s fallout led to the flat cap at the time and history could have judged Dubas differently.

“What would the cap be, $90 million?,” Belfry theorized. “Kyle would never say it, but I will. You have a world shut down, it’s a flat cap for multiple years and you’re stuck holding the bag on a projection. You didn’t miscalculate, it’s an act of nature that beat you.”

Those aren't small details and regrets. That's the whole ballgame.

I do think there's an alternate reality where a lot of that careless spending could have been covered up, papered over by a more forgiving cap, no pandemic and whatever...

But we have to remember that the screw up of the Matthews, Nylander, Marner aren't the only mistakes he made at the time. He signed Kapanen and Johnsson to too much too early before 2019-2020 which required him to pay a heavy disposal cost on Marleau and Zaitsev, costing us the Jarvis pick and Brown. Kapanen and Johnsson were disposed of a year later, though the Kapanen deal could have been great if things had worked out differently and we had kept Rodrigues.

He also traded Kadri for a one year moon shot with Barrie. Completely inexplicable.

An easier question to ask is, what did he do properly?