Friedman: Leafs and Knies talking extension

[FriendlyGhost92]

You’ve been insinuating that he’s worth near Slaf and Fabers contracts. I’m saying it’s nice to know how highly regarded he is to be compared to those players. It ain’t hard to understand.

I insinuated that where? Quote it.

 

[Rob Brown]

Treliving gave Nylander everything he could possibly ask for and then some. That monster deal was so ridiculously favorable to Willie it probably made Kyle jealous.

IMO it's more because Dubas set the precedent.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

I insinuated that where? Quote it.

I did earlier in the thread. Like others have said, he’s definitely worth more than 4 Million per. But I don’t see him getting over 6 million on max term unless he has a major breakout year this season.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I think all the long term contract talk is a waste of energy. This seems like an obvious bridge contract. Leafs are paying big money to the core. Knies is a complimentary piece until he proves he isn't. The Leafs should be looking at how to make the roster as competitive as possible especially at the beginning of those monster Nylander, Matthews and soon to be Marner contracts.

This is what RFA contracts are for. Sign him as cheap as possible for 2 or 3 years. No sense overpaying now to save money later. Leafs need to be winning not planning on winning. This is the windows not 3,4, 5 years from now.

I think a bridge deal makes too much sense for a window in the next 3-4 seasons. I just kind of want to get a steal of a contract locked up because I don't see the Leafs being competitive in years 6,7,8 of that deal.

It could work out for the Leafs a bit like the flyers where they moved JVR with years of term at a great caphit and got back a recent 5th OA pick. If the Leafs were to rebuild, Knies would basically be one of the best pieces we had to kickstart it (along with Nylander but who knows what that deal looks like then)

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I did earlier in the thread. Like others have said, he’s definitely worth more than 4 Million per. But I don’t see him getting over 6 million on max term unless he has a major breakout year this season.

Gonna assume you're talking about this one?

Now that we're past that, you can go back to comparing Knies taking 8 x $4M to Faber, (8 x $8.5M) Sanderson (8 x $8.05M) and Slafkovsky. (8 x $7.6M)

Which was clearly mocking his comparison of Knies to those players and their contracts? Did I need to throw in a sarcasm emoji to help you?

Here's a post from me on page one saying he's not worth $5M right now.

He's not worth $5M+ right now. He'd also be stupid to lock himself into an 8 year deal because he might be worth more than $5M in 2-3 years.

So again, show me where I insinuated he's worth Faber or Slaf's contracts?

Sounds a lot more like your reading comprehension is just poor.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Which was clearly mocking his comparison of Knies to those players and their contracts? Did I need to throw in a sarcasm emoji to help you?

It's clear the point I was making went over your head. I was never comparing Knies to those players.

 

[eojsmada]

Treliving gave Nylander everything he could possibly ask for and then some. That monster deal was so ridiculously favorable to Willie it probably made Kyle jealous.

So don't assume that because there's a new GM in town that MLSE's philosophy on treating their stars like royalty (and paying them as such) has changed. Clearly it hasn't.

Unfortunately for Knies he's not a star yet so they may not roll up the Brink's truck to his door, but I believe he'll get a very generous offer if he's willing to sign long-term.

Never underestimate Shanahan and bad contracts...LOL

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

It's clear the point I was making went over your head. I was never comparing Knies to those players.

It's clear that your comparisons weren't valid in the first place. That was kinda the point.

In fact I pointed this out here... And interestingly enough you elected not to respond:

Thanks for naming players getting in the ballpark of 8 x $8M to back up your 8 x $4M suggestion.

Proved my point.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Who is he slated to play mostly with this year?

 

[HockeyVirus]

It's clear that your comparisons weren't valid in the first place. That was kinda the point.

In fact I pointed this out here... And interestingly enough you elected not to respond:

This will be the third time I am saying they were not comparisons and my point went over your head.

My point was those were players who could have bridged and gotten a higher AAV like you are saying Knies should do. Their ability being higher does not matter. Instead of 5M -7M with Knies, it would be 8M-12M for those guys. Same concept.

I think you just didn't have a valid counter argument so you decided to enforce some imaginary threshold that excludes the range Knies is in

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

This will be the third time I am saying they were not comparisons and my point went over your head.

My point was those were players who could have bridged and gotten a higher AAV like you are saying Knies should do. Their ability being higher does not matter. Instead of 5M -7M with Knies, it would be 8M-12M for those guys. Same concept.

I think you just didn't have a valid counter argument so you decided to enforce some imaginary threshold that excludes the range Knies is in

You don't really get to excuse your point being bullshit by claiming it just went over my head lol.

You were asked to provide recent examples of the contract you were suggesting. You provided examples of players well above Knies' level, who have exhibited play well above Knies' current play, who signed contracts well in excess of the number you were suggesting.

When you come up with recent examples of players Knies' age who signed 8 x $4M or 8 x $5M, let me know.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

You don't really get to excuse your point being bullshit by claiming it just went over my head lol.

You were asked to provide recent examples of the contract you were suggesting. You provided examples of players well above Knies' level, who have exhibited play well above Knies' current play, who signed contracts well in excess of the number you were suggesting.

When you come up with recent examples of players Knies' age who signed 8 x $4M or 8 x $5M, let me know.

Not sure if it's "recent", but Alex Tuch signed for 7 x $4.75M in 2018 after a 15 goal, 37 point season. I think he was 22 years old.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I think you just didn't have a valid counter argument so you decided to enforce some imaginary threshold that excludes the range Knies is in

You were asked to provide recent examples of the contract you were suggesting. You provided examples of players well above Knies' level, who have exhibited play well above Knies' current play, who signed contracts well in excess of the number you were suggesting.

And we're done here

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Not sure if it's "recent", but Alex Tuch signed for 7 x $4.75M in 2018 after a 15 goal, 37 point season. I think he was 22 years old.

I wouldn't call it recent as it was signed October 2018, but his production and age when signing that deal is a solid comparison.

The problem, however, is that Tuch's deal in 2018 would inflate to $5.5M+ under a $92.5M cap. (I'm using that one by OPs own complaint that GM's assume the following year's cap) Tuch was also in his D+5 when he signed it. Knies would be D+4. That's a minor difference, though.

And we're done here

So you don't have any recent examples. Got it.

Your "Imaginary threshold" isn't imaginary. You don't have any recent examples of the contract you suggested because players haven't signed contracts like that in years. The best you could do is come up with comparisons that were double the total you're asking Knies to sign. These are not in the same stratosphere and you know it.

The best you could maybe come up with is Kotkaniemi, (Inflates to $5.4M/year) and that's turning out splendidly for Carolina.

 

[Golden_Jet]

This will be the third time I am saying they were not comparisons and my point went over your head.

My point was those were players who could have bridged and gotten a higher AAV like you are saying Knies should do. Their ability being higher does not matter. Instead of 5M -7M with Knies, it would be 8M-12M for those guys. Same concept.

I think you just didn't have a valid counter argument so you decided to enforce some imaginary threshold that excludes the range Knies is in

Should of come up within a list of guys that signed in the 4-5 million range you think, x 8 years

 

[Garbageyuk]

I'm aware, I'm joking based on your 'time to put your money where your mouth is guys' comment as if the fans have any decision making power.

I’m aware, just pointing out the ridiculous double-think of Leafs fans.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Who is he slated to play mostly with this year?

He’s been on the 1st line with Matthews and Marner throughout early practices.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Should of come up within a list of guys that signed in the 4-5 million range you think, x 8 years

He's probably on the verge of going back to whining that it must just be an anti-Toronto thing that people say Knies at 8 x $4M is not a logical contract suggestion.

I do like how @leafsfan2point0 bailed on arguing that I was comparing Knies to Faber/Slaf/Sanderson when he realized what was actually going on, but is still popping up in here to be HockeyVirus' hype man by liking his posts.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

He’s been on the 1st line with Matthews and Marner throughout early practices.

I'd definitely want a bridge if I were him then.

 

[NyQuil]

Is Knies really going to develop into the type of player where you're going to see big cap savings?

People love to cite Jack Hughes, but that was a unique and special case where you had an injury-prone 1st overall talent who had no track record to negotiate from.

 

[NVious]

I heard Knies was unhappy with the contract Matthews got and is looking to reset the market for Arizona based players

 

[Golden_Jet]

I heard Knies was unhappy with the contract Matthews got and is looking to reset the market for Arizona born and bred players.

Matthews was born in California.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

He's probably on the verge of going back to whining that it must just be an anti-Toronto thing that people say Knies at 8 x $4M is not a logical contract suggestion.

I do like how @leafsfan2point0 bailed on arguing that I was comparing Knies to Faber/Slaf/Sanderson when he realized what was actually going on, but is still popping up in here to be HockeyVirus' hype man by liking his posts.

I’m still here, I don’t know why we’re arguing lol. I think everybody is mostly on the same page about where his value would be right now.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Should of come up within a list of guys that signed in the 4-5 million range you think, x 8 years

Why does the AAV matter? It was said players don't just take less than they can get in a few years I gave several examples. I can give examples of lower AAVs than that as well.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Why does the AAV matter?

Apples to apples instead of
Apples to carrots