Confirmed with Link: Leafs acquire Bernier for Frattin, Scrivens, 2nd in 14 or 15

[Pierre Gotye]

Also: Food for thought. Since this deal was made, does this now make drafting Zach Fucale at #21 probably an unlikely possibility now?

 

[Patty Lee]

Crazy, crazy, crazy.

If no goalie controversy exists, the Leafs just go out and create one. I suppose that Reimer is next to move, you can't have two number one goalies. Anyone remember the Joseph/Potvin fiasco.

Is Bernier an upgrade in net? Over the past four years the stats look like this...


Bernier: GP: 58 GA: 120 GAA: 2.07 W: 28 L: 17 T: 6 SVs: 1315 SV%: .916
Reimer: GP: 104 GA: 263 GAA: 2.52 W: 53 L: 32 T: 14 SVs: 2840 SV%: .915

The stats suggest otherwise... The Leafs were clearly the worse team defensively between the Kings and Leafs, and yet Reimer posted identical numbers making 27 saves per game vs 22 saves per game for Bernier.

Was goaltending the real position that needed to be addressed?

you think that's the only thing that will be addressed?

yes, an upgrade was needed as BS isn't the answer to anyone needs

 

[thewave]

I agree, he had some solid games. Why do People want to throw guys under the bus?

He was number 2 to a good tender. That doesn't take anything away from him just he is not a starter. He may end up being nothing over there.

The whole trade here was based on a weary team. The package is full of well what ifs... Ie. If Frattin doesn't pan out maybe Scrivens will, if Scrivens doesn't maybe the second pick will someday. They don't want to be left holding the stick is what it amounts to. Everyone knows the ceiling of Bernier is potentially Elite and almost for sure at the very least good tender.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Also: Food for thought. Since this deal was made, does this now make drafting Zach Fucale at #21 probably an unlikely possibility now?

I'd say so.

Not a fan of drafting Goalies in the 1st round either.

Look no further then the trade - Quick stole the job from his teams first selection(Bernier); the year prior he was drafted in the 3rd. (after 7 goalies were picked)

The bloom later, a guy like Fucale may be a for sure thing. But i'd rather stock pile a few later round goalies; then waste one in the 1st. IMO

 

[Pierre Gotye]

I'd say so.

Not a fan of drafting Goalies in the 1st round either.

Look no further then the trade - Quick stole the job from his teams first selection(Bernier); the year prior he was drafted in the 3rd. (after 7 goalies were picked)

The bloom later, a guy like Fucale may be a for sure thing. But i'd rather stock pile a few later round goalies; then waste one in the 1st. IMO

Some goalies like Roy, Price, Brodeur, Rask, Luongo, etc., were 1st round picks and they turned out ok.

Goalies take longer to develop. It's hard to broadbrush all 1st round goalie picks as flops. When you look at the overall picks it's a mixed bag. But, you could say the same for players drafted as defenseman or by nationality, or playing environment circumstances as well, which is a factor for every prospect drafted in the 1st round.

The Leafs however, don't really have a a blue-chip goalie prospect. Rynnas and Owuya clearly aren't going to be NHLers. Sparks is a long-shot prospect.

It still makes sense for them to get a good one. Reimer still gets injured from time to time, and there's no telling how Bernier turns out.

Who knows how Fucale will turn-out, but he would certainly become the #1 goalie prospect within the ranks without a doubt.

 

[MapleLeafGardens*]

Nonis clearly said at the presser that the Kings shopped Bernier around the NHL before agreeing to the deal from the Leafs.

Considering what LA got from Toronto was the best offer...clearly only Leafs fans feel Bernier has elite potential. If any of the other 28 NHL teams felt Bernier has elite potential they would have offered far far more than a backup AHL goalie a winger who has never scored more than 7 goals in a season coming off knee surgery and a 2nd round pick.

 

[YearsintheWilderness]

4 goals in 16 minutes to complete the biggest 7th game collapse in NHL history.

That's all you need to know that this is a trade worth making.

Nonis is such a refreshing change after the self-aggrandizing, self-serving, monumentally over-rated buffoon/blowhard Burke.

 

[7even]

4 goals in 16 minutes to complete the biggest 7th game collapse in NHL history.

That's all you need to know that this is a trade worth making.

Nonis is such a refreshing change after the self-aggrandizing, self-serving, monumentally over-rated buffooon/blowhard Burke.

Because knee jerk reactions are the best reactions, amirite?

 

[Drew75]

Nonis clearly said at the presser that the Kings shopped Bernier around the NHL before agreeing to the deal from the Leafs.

Considering what LA got from Toronto was the best offer...clearly only Leafs fans feel Bernier has elite potential. If any of the other 28 NHL teams felt Bernier has elite potential they would have offered far far more than a backup AHL goalie a winger who has never scored more than 7 goals in a season coming off knee surgery and a 2nd round pick.

Not true - I was reading that other teams were not able to offer the same for reasons such as they couldn't take on the $500K, or the players they had to offer had bigger contracts / were pending UFA's next summer, etc.

It just turned out to be the best fit between Toronto and LA.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Nonis clearly said at the presser that the Kings shopped Bernier around the NHL before agreeing to the deal from the Leafs.

Considering what LA got from Toronto was the best offer...clearly only Leafs fans feel Bernier has elite potential. If any of the other 28 NHL teams felt Bernier has elite potential they would have offered far far more than a backup AHL goalie a winger who has never scored more than 7 goals in a season coming off knee surgery and a 2nd round pick.

Right they were trying to see the best deal.

but:
1: the Leafs & Kings were trying to do this for months. [apparently the sticking point was the pick. the Kings wanted the 2nd round this year, and Nonis wanted the 14/15 option]

2: the 500.000 in salary retention this year. I'm pretty sure as most teams are cap strapped couldn't handle this. (to the point of say Philly/Minny could have matched that we could have retained say 600.000 or something).


it's not so much that the 28 other teams didn't offer more for him is that we were able to actually match up the offer (Bernier easily could have gone to Philly who was making a hard push).

 

[ULF_55]

I'd say so.

Not a fan of drafting Goalies in the 1st round either.

Look no further then the trade - Quick stole the job from his teams first selection(Bernier); the year prior he was drafted in the 3rd. (after 7 goalies were picked)

The bloom later, a guy like Fucale may be a for sure thing. But i'd rather stock pile a few later round goalies; then waste one in the 1st. IMO

I don't like drafting unless they are so far superior to every other goalie prospect, and I don't see one there.

And yes, Bernier cost very little to acquire, and is just now becoming a viable (potential) starter.

For the most part goalies are not good bargaining chips.

 

[thewave]

Right they were trying to see the best deal.

but:
1: the Leafs & Kings were trying to do this for months. [apparently the sticking point was the pick. the Kings wanted the 2nd round this year, and Nonis wanted the 14/15 option]

2: the 500.000 in salary retention this year. I'm pretty sure as most teams are cap strapped couldn't handle this. (to the point of say Philly/Minny could have matched that we could have retained say 600.000 or something).


it's not so much that the 28 other teams didn't offer more for him is that we were able to actually match up the offer (Bernier easily could have gone to Philly who was making a hard push).

They wanted low cost guys to come in, the league teams are holding those because they are the difference of being under the cap. You can't just throw salary players at a cap strapped team and nobody wants to move high picks.

 

[egd27]

but you've already decided he's the Leafs number 1??

Well everyone is talking politically correctly about healthy competition, and nothing set in stone, but they just gave up 3 assets and cash to acquire Bernier.
I think this is a pretty clear example of actions speaking louder than words.
Honestly, who gives up that package for a backup? Its Bernier's job to lose, not Reimer's.

 

[WesM*]

Timing is a little tough now, as I really like Reimer, but better late then never. I have been wanting the Leafs to get this guy for years. I have been keeping an eye on this kid since he was in the Q when he back-stopped Lewiston to the QMJHL championship. He had a 16-1 record, a 2.34 goals-against average and a .919 save percentage in that run. I really like Frattin, I think he will be a solid 2nd or 3rd line guy who can grind, has speed and can score. If he did not get hurt early this season, when he was on that tear, who knows how many goals he could have scored.
I also again, really like Reimer. This gives the Leafs a potentially solid goalie tandem, and is a good just in case scenario if Reimer gets hurt again.

 

[ULF_55]

Well everyone is talking politically correctly about healthy competition, and nothing set in stone, but they just gave up 3 assets and cash to acquire Bernier.
I think this is a pretty clear example of actions speaking louder than words.
Honestly, who gives up that package for a backup? Its Bernier's job to lose, not Reimer's.

Same age, similar results, different pressures.

Playing in L.A. as a backup in a low-pressure situation.

Bernier might be given the starting job, but it would be based on hope and little else.

And the cost is really quite low, Frattin and a 2nd. Scriven was a throw in, and in fact offsets the salary retention.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

Bernier has a worse S% than Reimer, and he plays for a significantly better defensive team

9-3-1 last season, 1.88GAA, .922SV%, is a great puck-handler unlike Reimer, has a better glove hand, is more athletic, superior reflexes....

It's never a sure thing, but I'd be somewhat surprised if we aren't heading into the 2014-15 season with Bernier as our starter. That's not a knock on Reimer at all, but by all accounts, Bernier is the real deal. Nonis has set us up nicely in goal for years to come with this duo.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Because knee jerk reactions are the best reactions, amirite?

Knee jerk reactions?

Give me a break.

Reimer's performance in the playoffs was a microcosm of his entire career as a Leaf. He had a couple of very solid performances, but he was also very inconsistent. He allowed several weak goals throughout the series, he gave Boston far too many easy secondary scoring opportunities off of terrible rebounds from floaters from the point (which Boston exploited constantly), and his series ended in a crashing thud in game 7, wherein he should have had at least 2 or 3 of the goals Boston scored to prevent the Bruins from winning a series they had no business winning.

Reimer's a nice guy with a great personality, but that doesn't hide his deficiencies as a starting goaltender. He didn't necessarily play his way out of a starting role, but he certainly didn't play well enough to cement his role either.

 

[ULF_55]

9-3-1 last season, 1.88GAA, .922SV%, is a great puck-handler unlike Reimer, has a better glove hand, is more athletic, superior reflexes....

It's never a sure thing, but I'd be somewhat surprised if we aren't heading into the 2014-15 season with Bernier as our starter. That's not a knock on Reimer at all, but by all accounts, Bernier is the real deal. Nonis has set us up nicely in goal for years to come with this duo.

I like that people are willing to have faith in unproven assets in these types of deals.

We might have to have the same faith if Nonis moves out a proven defender for an unproven center who is also "the real deal" without having any NHL record to prove it.

 

[mydnyte]

if Reimer could actually catch and hold a puck, Leafs would have beat the Bruins, and Nonis may not have made this trade.
...though based on the cost to acquire Bernier, he may have made the trade anyways.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Because knee jerk reactions are the best reactions, amirite?

No, acting swiftly on flaws you see on your own team before everyone else exposes them is smart though.

 

[Nylanderthal]

It's like half of you here hang out with Reimer on weekends your defending him so much. It's pretty evident they brought Bernier in to start not to watch Reimer. Why go from backing up the best goalie in the league to backing up a back up?

 

[ForzaItalia]

Reimer not Pleased:

Link

 

[Silver91]

Because knee jerk reactions are the best reactions, amirite?

Because Nonis hasn't been working on this trade for months, amirite?

It's a good deal that gives us 2 potential starting goalies, one with higher potential than the other. Are they proven #1s in this league, I'd say no, neither is, but what we have today is better than we had yesterday morning.

As for not having to give up much, the goalie market is already weak as it is, then having to retain salary is something very few teams in the mix could afford. At the end of the day, unless you're dealing a proven #1, you're not getting what you want back. And the fact Lombardi promised that he'd deal Bernier before the draft, he had to find the best deal he could, whether he was 100% in love with it or not.

Also, this doesn't necessarily exclude us from taking Fucale in the draft. If Nonis & co. think he's BPA, and don't think trading down makes sense, there's nothing preventing you from taking him. Goalies typically don't make their mark in the NHL for 5-7 years after their draft, so a lot can change, and at worst we have to find a way to deal Fucale if it comes down to Bernier/Reimer being embedded here.

Long story short, there's really no reason to hate this deal. Yeah Reimer is a fan favourite, but if we're getting a tendy that could push him/surpass him, I couldn't care less that we're replacing a guy who I personally like and want to succeed.

 

[Budsfan]

Scrivens was not awful. Hes a backup, and performed very well for us in that role

Absolutely, Scrivens is a good goal tender and backed-up Reimer pretty well when called on, now we have two starting Goal Tenders in Bernier and Reimer, I hope we cand keep them both happy, maybe by alternating them more and go with the hot Goal Tender.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Reimer not Pleased:

Link

Well boo f---ing hoo...