Confirmed with Link: Leafs acquire Bernier for Frattin, Scrivens, 2nd in 14 or 15

[weems]

enroth didn't play enough to qualify for the leaderboards, like Bernier didn't.

You just said we might have traded for the shortest goalie in hockey. What does qualified leaderboards have anything to do with that?

I also love these statistically breakdowns you come up with. I remember the time when you tried to say Alexei Ponikorovski was just as good as Patrick Sharp.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Don't discount the Tim Leiweke factor, the guy knew of Bernier and interesting the deal goes down after he is hired to MSE.

Favours via Lombardi to former bosses.

"I'm very happy," Bernier told the Los Angeles Times. "And [Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment President and CEO] Tim [Leiweke] just called. He's very excited to have me on board."

Bernier, 24, is set to become a restricted free agent after making $1.525 million US last season. Nonis said no contract talks have taken place between the Leafs and their new netminder, but he doesn't anticipate a problem in getting a deal done.

 

[weems]

Not that it matters but he's listed as 6'0 tall

Yep just looked and both NHL.com and Yahoo have Bernier listed as 6'0

 

[LeeIs]

Sad to see Frattin go. I think he's going to improve and become a solid 3rd line tank. But have to give up something to get something.

I hope Bernier pushes Reimer to get even better.

 

[hotpaws]

I'm a fan of Reims but this is a heck of a deal by Nonis . I'm actually surprised another team didn't top this offer .

I know Bernier isn't proven but he never got the chance to do so playing behind Quick . This is also much better than signing a vet b/u considering we have no one in our system that projects out to be a quality NHL starter and no one who could potentially step in if Reims should falter or get injured .

 

[crump]

I'm a fan of Reims but this is a heck of a deal by Nonis . I'm actually surprised another team didn't top this offer .

I know Bernier isn't proven but he never got the chance to do so playing behind Quick . This is also much better than signing a vet b/u considering we have no one in our system that projects out to be a quality NHL starter and no one who could potentially step in if Reims should falter or get injured .

Agreed,

If they were going to get another goalie, I am glad it is someone without an albatross contrqct and is a few years away from retirement. He can become our #1, a solid 1a and give us a solid young tandem for years, or be used to trade for other assets later.

 

[Stephen]

Yeah, Bernier is a little small for the modern NHL. Let's see how he does.

 

[ULF_55]

Much better! Nice to see some input from a Leafs fan who has actually watched Bernier in action.

West Coast:

62 career NHL games over 4 years
30 career NHL playoffs minutes

I doubt you'll find many Leafs fans with a lot of viewing of this "backup" (which is what he was) goaltender.

Looks like Reimer will be starting against Montreal and Buffalo, with Bernier starting against Washington.

 

[FriedEgg]

Not sure about this one. On a priority list of offseason upgrades, goaltending was well down on mine. Address the lack of top 4 d, #1 centre, production from 3rd line etc...

Have to give nonis the benefit of doubt and assume he's going to tackle this other issues as well.

 

[Stephen]

Not sure about this one. On a priority list of offseason upgrades, goaltending was well down on mine. Address the lack of top 4 d, #1 centre, production from 3rd line etc...

Have to give nonis the benefit of doubt and assume he's going to tackle this other issues as well.

Doesn't mean the other positions won't be addressed. If Horton and Clarkson or some combination of wingers with size are brought in to replace MacArthur and Frattin, that's a big upgrade in experience also. The Stanley Cup hasn't even been awarded yet!

 

[zeke]

You just said we might have traded for the shortest goalie in hockey. What does qualified leaderboards have anything to do with that?

I also love these statistically breakdowns you come up with. I remember the time when you tried to say Alexei Ponikorovski was just as good as Patrick Sharp.

hey man, I just went to the leaderboards, and checked the size of every goalie listed.

if it makes you feel better to include guys who barely played, that's fine.

And it's interesting that you'd insult me over our previous disagreements over the numbers, considering how Reimer has turned out like I said he would, and far better than you ever wanted him to be.

and hey, here's another statistical breakdown for you....

The luxuries of being a protected backup behind a workhorse starting goalie.....


Bernier vs. Opponent, in order of opponent GPG:

1. PIT: 0gms, .000sv%
2. CHI: 0gms, .000sv%
3. TBL: 0gms, .000sv%
4. MTL: 0gms, .000sv%
5. WAS: 0gms, .000sv%
6. TOR: 0gms, .000sv%
7. NYI: 0gms, .000sv%
8. ANA: 2gms, .837sv%
9. PHI: 0gms, .000sv%
10. LAA: 0gms, .000sv%
11. DAL: 1gms, .867sv%
12. CAL: 1gms, .963sv%
13. BOS: 0gms, .000sv%
14. CAR: 0gms, .000sv%
15. NYR: 0gms, .000sv%

Vs. Top-15 Offenses: 4gms, .882sv%

16. WPG: 0gms, .000sv%
17. STL: 2gms, .867sv%
18. EDM: 0gms, .000sv%
19. DET: 1gms, .970sv%
20. VAN: 0gms, .000sv%
21. PHX: 1gms, .952sv%
22. MIN: 2gms, .958sv%
23. BUF: 0gms, .000sv%
24. SJS: 2gms, .917sv%
25. CLM: 1gms, .923sv%
26. COL: 0gms, .000sv%
27. OTT: 0gms, .000sv%
28. NJD: 0gms, .000sv%
29. NAS: 1gms, .947sv%
30. FLA: 0gms, .000sv%

Vs. Bottom-15 Offenses: 10gms, .937sv%

 

[Ari91]

West Coast:

62 career NHL games over 4 years
30 career NHL playoffs minutes

I doubt you'll find many Leafs fans with a lot of viewing of this "backup" (which is what he was) goaltender.

Looks like Reimer will be starting against Montreal and Buffalo, with Bernier starting against Washington.

You don't need to see a ton of games by a player to get a sense of the kind of tools they possess. Not all players are able to put it all together which is why young players are bought because of potential because until you give them the opportunity, they can't prove anything. I doubt many Leafs fans have seen enough of Bernier's games (even if there aren't that many), to get very upset about the trade but yet so many are upset. The difference between Bernier and Reimer's NHL experience is that Reimer was given a chance and he had no where the competition to earn that #1 spot that Bernier had. Reimer had a mentally weak Gustavsson and an injured Giggy. I'm pretty sure that if the roles were reversed and it was Reimer acquired via trade, he would have also played 62 NHL games and 30 minutes of NHL playoff hockey because he would also would have come to us as a back-up goalie. No way he would have wrestled the #1 from Quick either.

I have no problem with people who don't want to label him an elite goalie (I won't do that either). I have no problem with people reserving judgement. But it does boggle my mind when people appear so close minded about a player they probably know very little about just because they've become attached to a player we currently have. This team isn't a Cup contending team as is and changes will have to happen in order for the Leafs to get there. If Leafs fans want to see a team that has a fighting chance at winning a Stanley Cup, then they need to get used to changes happening.

I think it's way too early to talk about who gets the start. I think that will all come down to training camp and exhibition games.

 

[ULF_55]

Doesn't mean the other positions won't be addressed. If Horton and Clarkson or some combination of wingers with size are brought in to replace MacArthur and Frattin, that's a big upgrade in experience also. The Stanley Cup hasn't even been awarded yet!

Leafs have to watch the cap, they can't continue to rely on UFA's to fill positions, or to trade for players getting large increases.

They have 11 players under contract and 20 million in space.

Kadri
Gunnarsson
Bernier
Franson

Have to be signed, leaving about 8 million to sign 5 players to get to 20 players.

Buy-out Komisarek gives them another 3.6 (his cap hit after the AHL reduction).

 

[egd27]

no, but ask anybody else and they will tell you that JB is the real goods. I was merely pointing out how a fan of another team came here to tell us what he's seen from following his team (thus bernier) don't know why your so upset over this, or why you point me out. Obvioulsy I wasn't quantifying Fatty as being the NHL's goaltending guru, thought that was obvious.

Not upset, I think we got a great prospect for a good price, but I'd like to see him actually play some games with the team before deciding that our goaltending is set for the next 10 years.

However you did quote "Fatty" and say "there you have it folks" in reference to his praise as if he were some kind of expert, and the rest of us "homers" (your words) didn't know what we were talking about.

 

[ULF_55]

You don't need to see a ton of games by a player to get a sense of the kind of tools they possess. Not all players are able to put it all together which is why young players are bought because of potential because until you give them the opportunity, they can't prove anything. I doubt many Leafs fans have seen enough of Bernier's games (even if there aren't that many), to get very upset about the trade but yet so many are upset. The difference between Bernier and Reimer's NHL experience is that Reimer was given a chance and he had no where the competition to earn that #1 spot that Bernier had. Reimer had a mentally weak Gustavsson and an injured Giggy. I'm pretty sure that if the roles were reversed and it was Reimer acquired via trade, he would have also played 62 NHL games and 30 minutes of NHL playoff hockey because he would also would have come to us as a back-up goalie. No way he would have wrestled the #1 from Quick either.

I have no problem with people who don't want to label him an elite goalie (I won't do that either). I have no problem with people reserving judgement. But it does boggle my mind when people appear so close minded about a player they probably know very little about just because they've become attached to a player we currently have. This team isn't a Cup contending team as is and changes will have to happen in order for the Leafs to get there. If Leafs fans want to see a team that has a fighting chance at winning a Stanley Cup, then they need to get used to changes happening.

I think it's way too early to talk about who gets the start. I think that will all come down to training camp and exhibition games.

I agree but close-minded works both ways, he isn't a guaranteed upgrade on Reimer (no evidence of that) and it is not out of the question he steals the job and becomes a .930 keeper.

Reading the hype on Bernier, I expect nothing less than a top 5 goaltender who'll be nominated for the Vezina within the next year.

He's the same age as Reimer but miles better ... or so I'm reading.

 

[zeke]

You don't need to see a ton of games by a player to get a sense of the kind of tools they possess.

It's amazing so many professional GMs and scouts aren't able to judge goalies' "tools" effectively, even after watching them play a ton of games.

 

[Hyperglide]

Not sure about this one. On a priority list of offseason upgrades, goaltending was well down on mine. Address the lack of top 4 d, #1 centre, production from 3rd line etc...

Have to give nonis the benefit of doubt and assume he's going to tackle this other issues as well.

Dominoes man. You can't always get everything you need early in the process and have to make moves in other areas of improvement, when they present themselves. You have to admit though, no one felt confident with Scrivens in net for a lengthy period of time and we have now solidified our Goaltending position for the first time in years, with 2 quality tenders and if one happens to go down due to injury or unforeseen circumstance for an extended period, we know, we'll have another solid tender in there to take over. Beats having to see Gustavsson, Scrivens, and Giguere. That was painful.

It might have not of been a priority move in the grand scheme, but if you have the opportunity to improve your club anyway you can, for a good cost, you do it. Nonis did just that.

 

[garce]

Doesn't mean the other positions won't be addressed. If Horton and Clarkson or some combination of wingers with size are brought in to replace MacArthur and Frattin, that's a big upgrade in experience also. The Stanley Cup hasn't even been awarded yet!

Hortons price along with the injury history worries me, Clarkson seems a lot more inviting provided the tag is not crazy. While I liked Frattins potential, Bernier was a top pick and although his play has been limited he has done nothing to dispell the justification for that status, other than playing behind a top 5 goalie in the league. If both Reimer and Bernier play well it's a great position of strength to be dealing from, well worth the risk to me.

 

[Mehar]

LOVE IT! Love it so much it's hard to describe! Frattin is a good player, but you have to give to get, and Bernier is such a talented young goalie. Who knows who pans out better between Bernier and Riemer, but I think it's almost a lock that at least one of them will be a long term, quality starter. If they both end up looking like studs in the future, then we can get nice assets for one of them in a trade. Very nice deal by Nonis.

My feelings exactly. I seen Bernier play in several games thanks to my dish, and he looked outstanding in the games he was in net. Nothing wrong with having two young goalies. One of them could be a trade chip later on as well. Solid deal by Nonis.

 

[Ari91]

I agree but close-minded works both ways, he isn't a guaranteed upgrade on Reimer (no evidence of that) and it is not out of the question he steals the job and becomes a .930 keeper.

Reading the hype on Bernier, I expect nothing less than a top 5 goaltender who'll be nominated for the Vezina within the next year.

He's the same age as Reimer but miles better ... or so I'm reading.

It certainly does go both ways as evidence in this thread so that's a very fair assessment of what's going on. I do feel more inclined to defend Bernier because the guy hasn't even put a Leafs jersey on yet and despite all of the accolades he's received from fans, scouts, etc. some people seem so unwilling to give the guy a chance or think of the upside if he pans out the way people expect him to.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

hey man, I just went to the leaderboards, and checked the size of every goalie listed.

if it makes you feel better to include guys who barely played, that's fine.

And it's interesting that you'd insult me over our previous disagreements over the numbers, considering how Reimer has turned out like I said he would, and far better than you ever wanted him to be.

and hey, here's another statistical breakdown for you....

The luxuries of being a protected backup behind a workhorse starting goalie.....


Bernier vs. Opponent, in order of opponent GPG:

1. PIT: 0gms, .000sv%
2. CHI: 0gms, .000sv%
3. TBL: 0gms, .000sv%
4. MTL: 0gms, .000sv%
5. WAS: 0gms, .000sv%
6. TOR: 0gms, .000sv%
7. NYI: 0gms, .000sv%
8. ANA: 2gms, .837sv%
9. PHI: 0gms, .000sv%
10. LAA: 0gms, .000sv%
11. DAL: 1gms, .867sv%
12. CAL: 1gms, .963sv%
13. BOS: 0gms, .000sv%
14. CAR: 0gms, .000sv%
15. NYR: 0gms, .000sv%

Vs. Top-15 Offenses: 4gms, .882sv%

16. WPG: 0gms, .000sv%
17. STL: 2gms, .867sv%
18. EDM: 0gms, .000sv%
19. DET: 1gms, .970sv%
20. VAN: 0gms, .000sv%
21. PHX: 1gms, .952sv%
22. MIN: 2gms, .958sv%
23. BUF: 0gms, .000sv%
24. SJS: 2gms, .917sv%
25. CLM: 1gms, .923sv%
26. COL: 0gms, .000sv%
27. OTT: 0gms, .000sv%
28. NJD: 0gms, .000sv%
29. NAS: 1gms, .947sv%
30. FLA: 0gms, .000sv%

Vs. Bottom-15 Offenses: 10gms, .937sv%

4 games? Lol.

Stats are irrelevant due to such a small sample.

 

[egd27]

Lombardi said in a Cap system it is impossible to keep 2 No.1 Goalies, thus he was forced to move Bernier.

There is no way the Leafs are keeping both Reimer and Bernier for an extended amount of time, people need to stop drinking the koolaid.

If Reimer is not moved this summer, this might turn out to be a bad move, like Luongo and Schneider in Vancouver is right now.

Fuhr/Potvin and Potvin/Cujo didn't last long either, and there was no cap then.

People are not thinking long term and presently what the Bernier deal means to Nonis. It's all about assembling chips at the poker table.

I think your right and Reimer's days are probably numbered.

 

[zeke]

4 games? Lol.

Stats are irrelevant due to such a small sample.

The fact that he only played 4gms against the top-half offenses is just as significant as his save percentage in those 4gms.

 

[Leaf Army]

Mixed feelings on this trade.

On one hand Bernier has great potential and to get a 24 year old goalie who has a legit chance to be a high end NHL starter is obviously never a bad thing. The price we paid was high but fair and, if Bernier lives up to the hype, could end up being an outright steal for us.

On the other other hand giving up young, quality assets for a goaltender after the season Reimer put together is puzzling. It's like the day after the season ended everyone forgot how good Reimer actually was. He won twice as many games as he lost and had a .924 save percentage. He then followed that up with a very solid performance in the playoffs.

To put his .924 save percentage into perspective none of Belfour, Joseph or Potvin had a save percentage that high in any of their NHL seasons. Not once. Even Martin Brodeur has only done it once.

You could fairly say that he did it in a shortened season. But remember in his first NHL season in 2010-2011 he had a .921 save percentage. And he won twice as many games as he lost that year too.

Even if you still have questions about Reimer after last season I'm still not sure this was the time to go out looking for an upgrade. It's a pretty bold move after the season Reimer had. Competition between goalies doesn't always make them better. Having two guys who want ice time can backfire too.

It's probably not a bad trade but not one that I would have made.

 

[Ari91]

It's amazing so many professional GMs and scouts aren't able to judge goalies' "tools" effectively, even after watching them play a ton of games.

Having the tools to be successful doesn't guarantee you success which is why I said that all players are bought on potential. It's ultimately up to the player to play to his potential.

GMs won't commit to a player that has potential but never translates any of that into his performances...it's why Justin Pogge isn't in the NHL despite being just 27 years old.