Confirmed with Link: Leafs acquire Bernier for Frattin, Scrivens, 2nd in 14 or 15

[Crispy Crust]

The timing is really what gets me. Reimer showed that he could be a damn good starting goalie once the rumours of his impending replacement were gone (post trade deadline), and he was absolutely lights-out in the playoffs.

Having a 1a and 1b goalie doesn't work out. These guys get tired of deserving the #1 spot but always having to settle for being a part-time goaltender. If we want to succeed, we name a #1 clearly and let him play himself out of the job, kind of like MAF. You don't just keep experimenting and seeing which one makes a key mistake. That kills both goalies' confidence.

Yeah the timing is really odd.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

The timing is really what gets me. Reimer showed that he could be a damn good starting goalie once the rumours of his impending replacement were gone (post trade deadline), and he was absolutely lights-out in the playoffs.

Having a 1a and 1b goalie doesn't work out. These guys get tired of deserving the #1 spot but always having to settle for being a part-time goaltender. If we want to succeed, we name a #1 clearly and let him play himself out of the job, kind of like MAF. You don't just keep experimenting and seeing which one makes a key mistake. That kills both goalies' confidence.

We once had two HOF goalies platooning for 3 years.

 

[zeke]

We once had two HOF goalies platooning for 3 years.

did they have a cap back then?

 

[Bomber0104]

I have to disagree a bit here.

Although I do agree with you that you have to ask yourself if Bernier is better than Scrivens, you ultimately have to ask yourself how often a goalie as highly touted and sought after as Bernier comes available?

I'd have to believe most backup goalies are available for the right price.

Then it becomes, how easily replaceable is Frattin?

Not very since we don't have many prospects like him coming up. Closest in my opinion is D'Amigo and perhaps Biggs and even that's no certainty. I also don't feel they bring the offensive skill Frattin has.

And then is it worth Frattin and the pick?

If Reimer outplays Bernier, no.
If Bernier outplays Reimer by a bit, probably still no.

If Bernier outplays Reimer by a clear margin, yes.

While Frattin had a lot of tools, I think you could replace his offensive output with a free agent or someone in the system. For one, I could see Josh Leivo pushing for a spot in the Leafs lineup, but that's another topic.

Thing is Frattin is a prospect who hasn't played a full season yet in the NHL. His colors haven't really shown yet. A free agent is what it is. A veteran with no upside.

I'd hardly call Frattin replaceable let alone easily replaceable.

 

[7even]

I don't understand it either. Seems like too much risk for not enough reward when you weigh in what we spent. I'd understand a move like this if we needed a replacement for a Raycroft or Toskala type goalie.

Yeah definitely. How much better is Bernier going to be than Scrivens' .915? .920 is an above average starter. Is that .05% increase worth the cap space, a bottom 9 winger, and a 2nd round pick? I don't think it is. That goes out the window if Bernier can be an upper echelon .925+ guy, but the odds of that are slim.

This would be a genius move three years ago, two years ago, even last year. But after Reimer put up a fantastic season and a .923 performance in the playoffs? It's weird, man.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

did they have a cap back then?

They barely had salaries back then though I'm not sure what relevance it has, given the argument is about them getting along and their confidence.

 

[Hanta Yo]

Not sure what all the fuss is about when it comes to Frattin being traded.

Great deal by Nonis.

 

[Bomber0104]

Yeah definitely. How much better is Bernier going to be than Scrivens' .915? .920 is an above average starter. Is that .05% increase worth the cap space, a bottom 9 winger, and a 2nd round pick? I don't think it is. That goes out the window if Bernier can be an upper echelon .925+ guy, but the odds of that are slim.

I don't compare save percentages like that for goalies but I see what you mean. We are going to find out this coming season how much each respective team sheltered or exposed Scrivens and Bernier.

This would be a genius move three years ago, two years ago, even last year. But after Reimer put up a fantastic season and a .923 performance in the playoffs? It's weird, man.

In Game 7 Reimer coughed up 4 straight goals and Frattin had a chance to put the game away...

Dressing room politics IMO.

 

[namttebih]

agreed I have nothing against Bernier and hope he does well but Philly got Mason last year who really is another Bernier " lets see what happens " player after a great rookie year

why didnt they overpay with a solid young kid like Cotourier ?

on the surface both teams got what they wanted

Terrible analogy. Mason had a great rookie season then **** the bed the following three. Although Bernier has only played 12-15 games a season, he has been consistent throughout his career.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

hopeflly it's not the same reliable hockey people who said that about similar-style&size Toskala.

Let's hope those reliable hockey people have better luck with Quebec born Goalies, more Potvin less Toskala.

 

[ShLou Foot]

Living on the Wet Coast I get to see many "late" games, and with all due respect Bernier IMHO is reminiscent of A young "le Chat"(& I can say that cause, I'm that damn old). Fratts we'll miss but I think that this will be Nonis' "Baba Louey" deal.

 

[ShLou Foot]

Terrible analogy. Mason had a great rookie season then **** the bed the following three. Although Bernier has only played 12-15 games a season, he has been consistent throughout his career.

This my friend is what us "old folk" call "Jim Carey disease". He was the benchmark, look him up if you want some farts and giggles.

 

[LeafsandSharksfan]

Really not happy with this deal, Reimer said he was shaken up by the goalie speculation at the deadline, this is going to destroy his confidence.

And we give up a promising 2/3 line power forward. What was all that about not selling the future?

 

[trellaine201]

Yeah the timing is really odd.

I agree. Very strange. And to know Nonis said a longer term deal with Bernier shouldn't be a problem. Bernier wouldn't committ unless he knew he was number one goalie.

IMO anyways

 

[mcleex]

Imagine if the Leafs end up having a Luongo/Schneider controversy in a few years lmao .. the irony

I don't even know if it's something you want or wouldn't .. on one hand it's good to have competition and 2 goalies pushing each other, on the other hand both could bust

I guess we're doing what we have always been told "building from the net out"

next up .. defense

 

[HOCKEYGOON]

When this first broke I hated it but the more I think about it... the more I like the fact that we have a 1a/1b situation going on next year for an 82 game schedule.

I wouldn't be too confident in Scrivens carrying the load if Reimer went down next year..... if Bernier happens to outshine Reimer and become the goalie the Kings fans tell us he can become then bonus.

 

[mcleex]

Would you guys have rather given up Kulemin or Frattin in this deal?

 

[Ari91]

Living on the Wet Coast I get to see many "late" games, and with all due respect Bernier IMHO is reminiscent of A young "le Chat"(& I can say that cause, I'm that damn old). Fratts we'll miss but I think that this will be Nonis' "Baba Louey" deal.

I need some translation

 

[FlareKnight]

I don't get the talk about weird timing. Was Nonis going to call LA and ask them to hold onto Bernier for a couple years so the timing will be better? If a guy you want is available, you go and get him. Reimer did a great job, but it's not a crime to want to improve on that. Scrivens was never going to be anything more than a backup goalie. This way the Leafs get the chance to have two guys compete and keep the better goalie long term.

I think it's a reasonable move and makes next season all the more interesting.

 

[Duke Silver]

Really not happy with this deal, Reimer said he was shaken up by the goalie speculation at the deadline, this is going to destroy his confidence.

And we give up a promising 2/3 line power forward. What was all that about not selling the future?

Selling the future is fine if you're acquiring the future back. Let's not forget that Bernier turns 25 this year. Frattin is the same age.

Bernier, in the eyes of people far more familiar with him than you obviously are, has high-end starter written all over him. From his teammates to LA media to his goalie coaches, all have called him a "great" goaltender and told us we've acquired a gem. Put in a better situation (i.e. not behind a Vezina-calibre goaltender like Jon Quick), he probably would be a starter by now. We're very fortunate things worked out the way they did with Bernier.

 

[JesusBouillon]

Hating it. Why give these assets up for another Reimer? There are much bigger holes to fill than the non-existent "back-up goaltender" hole.

They're obviously not acquiring a back up goaltender. They'll probably go 1A1B and hope that Bernier fullfill his potential and become a real superstar number one goaltender.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Reimer had a great season, no doubt about that, but you can't deny that he looked shaky in quite a few outings. I am not at all confident he can repeat a .920+ save % over 50-60 starts.

 

[Maccer]

He's played above average hockey for 14 games? We have a goalie who has done that twice for twice as long and is the same age.

 

[Duke Silver]

Reimer had a great season, no doubt about that, but you can't deny that he looked shaky in quite a few outings. I am not at all confident he can repeat a .920+ save % over 50-60 starts.

Bingo. We've only seen Reimer in half-season increments.

 

[Stephen]

Living on the Wet Coast I get to see many "late" games, and with all due respect Bernier IMHO is reminiscent of A young "le Chat"(& I can say that cause, I'm that damn old). Fratts we'll miss but I think that this will be Nonis' "Baba Louey" deal.

Not understanding this Olde English at all. I'm guessing it's a negative because you use "with all due respect?"

I was thinking Felix Potvin when you said "Le Chat" but maybe it's Emile Francis you're talking about?

This is like the enigma code.