Leaf poll. Load up on picks or dump em all? - Now with Poll Options 2023-11-20

[Drytoast]

I'm honestly over this core. The leadership lacks heart. The team lacks chemistry and depth. I already know the season is going to be fun but the playoffs is going to stink.

 

[Smif]

I'm honestly over this core. The leadership lacks heart. The team lacks chemistry and depth. I already know the season is going to be fun but the playoffs is going to stink.

Good timing for this post when we just jumped into a top 4 team in the East.

 

[Drytoast]

Good timing for this post when we just jumped into a top 4 team in the East.

Nothing matters cept playoff success. Don't give a flying f*** about the regular season so long as they make the playoffs.

But there is NO SHOT we do anything in the playoffs with this team as is.

 

[Evilhomer]

Nothing matters cept playoff success. Don't give a flying f*** about the regular season so long as they make the playoffs.

But there is NO SHOT we do anything in the playoffs with this team as is.

Why? It's a better team than it was last season, and treliving will acquire three or four new guys before the deadline. With jersey falling off the Leafs will likely be the number one seed in the east.

 

[Smif]

Nothing matters cept playoff success. Don't give a flying f*** about the regular season so long as they make the playoffs.

But there is NO SHOT we do anything in the playoffs with this team as is.

As is? No. But it's just our defense that needs an upgrade and there are a lot of dmen available so I'm not going to have a spaz, like you are. Settle down.

 

[Drytoast]

Why? It's a better team than it was last season, and treliving will acquire three or four new guys before the deadline. With jersey falling off the Leafs will likely be the number one seed in the east.

Defense last year was way better than it is this year.

Even with Domi fighting we lost 2 of our big hitters per shift last year. (accari and Schenn) So when we inevitable face a grinding team who works...we will fold.

We've seen this core in action now 8 times. They die in the playoffs.

As is? No. But it's just our defense that needs an upgrade and there are a lot of dmen available so I'm not going to have a spaz, like you are. Settle down.

I'm not spazzing I made a statement as to the current position of this team and you agreed and then declared your sensitivity.

 

[Leaf Fans]

With our having no picks in 2025 and a near empty cupboard defensively do we load up on picks and draft some solid dmen or dump? Our defense is aging and with Cowan and Minten plus Robertson and Knies we have plenty of forwards. If we make a wrong move again We are screwed. Do Leafs want that risk,? I'm for loading up on picks not dumping them.

Leafs have 5 picks in 2025 there is likely no first unless the Leafs are in the top 10 and there is currently no second. Also, no 4th.

 

[Smif]

Defense last year was way better than it is this year.

Even with Domi fighting we lost 2 of our big hitters per shift last year. (accari and Schenn) So when we inevitable face a grinding team who works...we will fold.

We've seen this core in action now 8 times. They die in the playoffs.


I'm not spazzing I made a statement as to the current position of this team and you agreed and then declared your sensitivity.

I agreed that we need a defensive addition. A Zadorov / Tanev level acquisition and we're good. Without that, we're still making the playoffs. You're crying about nothing because it's pretty much guaranteed we'll be upgrading this team. It's Nov 17th and we're 4th in the east, so, again, settle down grandpa.

Leafs have 5 picks in 2025 there is likely no first unless the Leafs are in the top 10 and there is currently no second. Also, no 4th.

Don't we have like 9 in 2024?

 

[Drytoast]

I agreed that we need a defensive addition. A Zadorov / Tanev level acquisition and we're good. Without that, we're still making the playoffs. You're crying about nothing because it's pretty much guaranteed we'll be upgrading this team. It's Nov 17th and we're 4th in the east, so, again, settle down grandpa.


Don't we have like 9 in 2024?

Not only do we need to improve the defense just to get it up to a standard it was at last year. We have to find a way to be better than we were last year.

Last year in the playoffs we got walked by a low skilled team that works hard. Absolutely walked.

Unless we find a way to make substantial chemistry changes to this team, we will get walked again.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Defense last year was way better than it is this year.

Even with Domi fighting we lost 2 of our big hitters per shift last year. (accari and Schenn) So when we inevitable face a grinding team who works...we will fold.

We've seen this core in action now 8 times. They die in the playoffs.


I'm not spazzing I made a statement as to the current position of this team and you agreed and then declared your sensitivity.

We got those players at the deadline. They were hardly Leafs. I'm sure we can do the same this deadline.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I agreed that we need a defensive addition. A Zadorov / Tanev level acquisition and we're good. Without that, we're still making the playoffs. You're crying about nothing because it's pretty much guaranteed we'll be upgrading this team. It's Nov 17th and we're 4th in the east, so, again, settle down grandpa.


Don't we have like 9 in 2024?

Yes, we do. No second or third currently.

 

[Drytoast]

We got those players at the deadline. They were hardly Leafs. I'm sure we can do the same this deadline.

You can't really build a team work ethic, chemistry at the deadline. The core has to come out and work hard as an example night in and night out. and I'm not seeing it. Which is why I'm over this core. They just don't have what it takes in the playoffs. It's been 8 years and 1 playoff win. I havn't seen any progression in their play in the areas it matters. Which is push back.

Matthews was collecting sticks during a scrum last year in the playoffs for crying out loud and Stammer had to punch him in the face 5 times before Matthews figured out he was in a fight.

Regular season? These guys are superstars. In the playoffs? They are bums.

 

[Jojalu]

Not only do we need to improve the defense just to get it up to a standard it was at last year. We have to find a way to be better than we were last year.

Last year in the playoffs we got walked by a low skilled team that works hard. Absolutely walked.

Unless we find a way to make substantial chemistry changes to this team, we will get walked again.

I would say that is what Bertuzzi and Domi are supposed to help with. Then add Knies and a healthy Robertson and the Leafs suddenly have hard workers.

Now add to the backend and possibly another 4th line energy guy who can also play and the Leafs would be better than last year.

 

[Smif]

Not only do we need to improve the defense just to get it up to a standard it was at last year. We have to find a way to be better than we were last year.

Last year in the playoffs we got walked by a low skilled team that works hard. Absolutely walked.

Unless we find a way to make substantial chemistry changes to this team, we will get walked again.

Yes, we have no chemistry being 4th in the east and ahead of last years team. We also have had way worse goaltending which will likely improve on it's own. You're grasping at straws and have completely baseless claims.

 

[LeafGrief]

A retool would be far and away the best choice for this team. Our goaltending is beyond sus and our defense is a shadow of what it once was. Our 11m players don't deliver when it matters. We've repeatedly gone all-in and lost, at what point does going back to the loan-sharks for a second and third helping become obviously the wrong choice?

The sooner we retool, the smoother the transition to the next promising version of the team. If we keep blowing all our futures and then lose a few big guns to UFA, we're looking at another full rebuild and years upon years in the basement. If we restock the cupboards and manage our cap well for a few years, we can keep the good parts of this core and look to re-contend quickly.

The longer we ignore the writing on the wall that this core won't win anything, the worse the pain will be. The sooner we retool, the sooner we've got a real contender again.

 

[All Mod Cons]

You can't really build a team work ethic, chemistry at the deadline. The core has to come out and work hard as an example night in and night out. and I'm not seeing it. Which is why I'm over this core. They just don't have what it takes in the playoffs. It's been 8 years and 1 playoff win. I havn't seen any progression in their play in the areas it matters. Which is push back.

Matthews was collecting sticks during a scrum last year in the playoffs for crying out loud and Stammer had to punch him in the face 5 times before Matthews figured out he was in a fight.

Regular season? These guys are superstars. In the playoffs? They are bums.

Oh don't get me wrong, I've been over the core since we lost the play-ins to Columbus. I've been wanting Tavares and Marner moved for 5 years now. I think we could build a better team without them, presuming the return for Marner was as good at it should've been, and the cap space from Tavares.

However, at this point, I honestly don't see what Treliving can do. Just gotta wait until Tavares walks to at least get some semblance of a team. Still don't think it'll be enough.

But we'll continue to add fringe pieces at the deadline every year. We'll get another Schenn and Acciari, both of whom are absolutely useless so far this year.

 

[Menzinger]

This front office is absolutely not going to be selling assets regardless of what we want.

Personally, be as competitive as possible every season Matthews is a Lead in his prime. I don't care about picks or prospects (that said doesn't mean they should just waste assets)

 

[Drytoast]

Oh don't get me wrong, I've been over the core since we lost the play-ins to Columbus. I've been wanting Tavares and Marner moved for 5 years now. I think we could build a better team without them, presuming the return for Marner was as good at it should've been, and the cap space from Tavares.

However, at this point, I honestly don't see what Treliving can do. Just gotta wait until Tavares walks to at least get some semblance of a team. Still don't think it'll be enough.

But we'll continue to add fringe pieces at the deadline every year. We'll get another Schenn and Acciari, both of whom are absolutely useless so far this year.

Nylander is going to be asking for something we can't afford to give. So my guess is he's gone next summer. Tavares will resign back at a much more reasonable rate, and if he doesn't he walks.

Marner has a NMC. And of course Matthews isn't going anywhere.

That's the most likely scenario as to where this goes.

I'm completely over paying so much f***ing money to 4 guys, leaving so little for the rest and praying that cheap goalies and defense can be carried.

 

[thewave]

never draft by need early in the draft like 1st and 2nd round because you can miss out on some real good talent that way but later in the draft where there really isn't a clear BPA you can go for more positional needs at that point.

The best way to draft is to use Bob's consolidated list. You know the one where he just looks at 10 scouts rankings and averages them out. If you look at that list and draft accordingly to it, you tend to do really well. I looked into it way back and I think someone else has in the past. It's money and cheap to do.

 

[thusk]

Defense last year was way better than it is this year.

Even with Domi fighting we lost 2 of our big hitters per shift last year. (accari and Schenn) So when we inevitable face a grinding team who works...we will fold.

We've seen this core in action now 8 times. They die in the playoffs.


I'm not spazzing I made a statement as to the current position of this team and you agreed and then declared your sensitivity.

hit is probably the most overrated stats

i prefer a guy who will just be hard on forecheck and be able to make thing happen than a guy who hitting but bringing absolutly nothing else with the puck dying on his stick every time he touched the puck...

 

[Drytoast]

hit is probably the most overrated stats

i prefer a guy who will just be hard on forecheck and be able to make thing happen than a guy who hitting but bringing absolutly nothing else with the puck dying on his stick every time he touched the puck...

Hits are part of the reason we lost the first go around with Tampa. Nobody wanted to go into the corners and forecheck. We were intimidated off the pucks. I agree that hits do not tell the full story but if you don't think Schenn wasn't a big reason as to why we got past Tampa, you havn't been paying attention. He sent a message to both teams when he fought Maroon leading into the playoffs or Jeanott. And nearly every time Tampa tried to throw their weight around he would yap back at them. Look at the hit he threw leading into the Maroon fight. Anyone that wanted to dump and chase in our end paid the price when he was on the ice. We have NOBODY on the team that does this now.





The problem last year was the same problem every year though. When we faced a team that works hard with less skill then a Tampa Bay. Think Columbus, Montreal and now Florida...we fold like lawn chairs.

 

[thusk]

Hits are part of the reason we lost the first go around with Tampa. Nobody wanted to go into the corners and forecheck. We were intimidated off the pucks. I agree that hits do not tell the full story but if you don't think Schenn wasn't a big reason as to why we got past Tampa, you havn't been paying attention. He sent a message to both teams when he fought Jeanott in the playoffs. And nearly every time Tampa tried to throw their weight around he would yap back at them.



The problem last year was the same problem every year though. When we faced a team that works hard with less skill then a Tampa Bay. Think Columbus, Montreal and now Florida...we fold like lawn chairs.

the biggest differrnce

vs columbus toronto lost his #2 D and had to play with dermott/marincin and whatever in the line up

vs montreal, sorry leafs was looking great until Muzzin get hurt...thing start to look pretty bad was when Muzzin being injured

last season despite win vs tampa, they was outplayed because leafs was unable to move the puck out of his own zone when rielly was not on the ice. so they defending again and again, when your playing big part of the game in your own zone, you will allowing more goal. and if Vasilevskiy would not be as trash, no way leafs win that serie sorry.

no we certainly not watching the same, series... in 2022 Toronto was clearly the best team on the ice and it was the only serie toronto was looking like a team enough good to win the cup. get Muzzin as #2, sent brodie as #3 and everybody in the right spot and every player was looking better.


its not about physicality, its about getting the right player on the right spot. when you try to patch a #2 hole in D with 4/5/6th D, that will hurt you somewhere.

 

[Evilhomer]

A retool would be far and away the best choice for this team. Our goaltending is beyond sus and our defense is a shadow of what it once was. Our 11m players don't deliver when it matters. We've repeatedly gone all-in and lost, at what point does going back to the loan-sharks for a second and third helping become obviously the wrong choice?

The sooner we retool, the smoother the transition to the next promising version of the team. If we keep blowing all our futures and then lose a few big guns to UFA, we're looking at another full rebuild and years upon years in the basement. If we restock the cupboards and manage our cap well for a few years, we can keep the good parts of this core and look to re-contend quickly.

The longer we ignore the writing on the wall that this core won't win anything, the worse the pain will be. The sooner we retool, the sooner we've got a real contender again.

I find this to be such an odd position to take. A team has 3 of the best players in the entire league, and it should "retool"? No, it should do whatever it takes to win now, because winning in the future isn't guaranteed.

 

[LeafGrief]

I find this to be such an odd position to take. A team has 3 of the best players in the entire league, and it should "retool"? No, it should do whatever it takes to win now, because winning in the future isn't guaranteed.

I guess you've just got selective amnesia and have forgotten that we've won ONE round with said 3 best players in the league. Winning in the future isn't guaranteed, but going all-in yet again with the exact same hand we've lost the last five rounds with is utterly

Actually, never mind. I've got a poker group who's looking for a sixth. You interested?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Absolutely awful idea to go into a draft looking for a specific position IMO. Take the best player. I don't want to pass over another Knies, Cowan, or Minten because I want a dman badly so I draft a Finn, Percy, or Dermott.

If there is a Liljegren there, or someone we really believe in to play some top 4 minutes for us within 5 years sure take it. Otherwise BPA.

So I vote no to this idea. Makes no sense to go all in on drafting at this point of our window. It is a better idea to acquire players with good cap hits with term with our draft picks. Someone like Weager with a locked in cap hit or similar to the McCabe trade where we get them for a few seasons.

I really hate when people say pick the BPA, because unless you are drafting top 5, maybe top 10 ina draft that's seen as deep you don't know who that is, nobody does.

If they did Bergeron wouldn't be a 2nd rounder, Point a 3rd, Kaprizov a 5th, Kaberle an 8th, Mark Stone a 6th, Vasi doesn't go 19th, Jamie Benn isn't a 5th and Debrincat doesn't go 39th or Aho in the mid 40's.

The draft is a crapshoot beyond 10th Overall and the list of players I just gave you proves it.