They played erie for the second straight night. The entire team was -2 or -3 pretty much.
LD Sean Day - Mississauga Steelheads, OHL (2016 Draft)
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They played erie for the second straight night. The entire team was -2 or -3 pretty much.
Larry Hoover
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- Sep 16, 2012
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I think you misunderstood what I meant. He's certain that Sean Day is great for a 15-year old. The question is how will he develop at the NHL level when his peers catch up to his physical gifts. He's uncertain of whether or not Day will continue to develop at a similar rate to his peers.
SeanLafortune
@SeanLafortune
-/+ is indicative of the team your on, not necessarily how good of a defensive player you are. Connor Brown was a -72 18 months ago, and here we are today, hes not much better defensively, yet hes a plus 22 after 28 games. Its one of the worst ways to attempt to judge a hockey player, because its due to the team that your on and who your playing with/against. It never actually says how good you are, more so the situation your in.
Hes doing fine, ahead of where Ekblad was at the same age, take that for what you will.
Brock
Registered User
As Sean said, don't focus on +/-. The Steelheads just aren't a very good team and they're giving up a large amount of goals recently (the last few weeks).
During this time Jacob Graves has indeed been his partner, but he's also seen time with rookie Jared Walsh. Graves isn't necessarily a poor partner for Day. He's a rough, stay at home guy who allows Day to be the primary puck mover in the pairing. Gives him a bit of free reign at times.
And as I said before, he's certainly not having a poor season...or playing any worse lately. He's been consistently strong all season for a rookie defenseman in the league (despite what his +/- might indicate) and his development is coming along very nicely.
Plus minus is only useful in taken in the context of the team, not the league, and in many instances means very little.
Day is generally speaking noticably worse than the rest of the team, which means whomever he is on theice with, issues have arisen. So in this case I find it does point to player deficiencies.
That said, of course he will have a few issues. He is 15. Anyone who expected much different had unrealistic expectations. I'm pretty sure by the end of the season you'll see his +/- correct itself and come in balance with the rest of the team.
Gobias Industries
Registered User
Watched the Friday game with Erie, he looked very good in the third.
Like McDavid, there were a few "wow" moments in terms of puck poise and speed. He's also a beast, I think the exception must have been somewhat "Ekbladian" as if he was playing with kids his age he would be so physically ahead of them that his skills would set him even further apart.
It'll be interesting watching him next year and onward, definitely showed some glimpses of brilliance, but as should be expected he's clearly not "there" yet.
Like McDavid, there were a few "wow" moments in terms of puck poise and speed. He's also a beast, I think the exception must have been somewhat "Ekbladian" as if he was playing with kids his age he would be so physically ahead of them that his skills would set him even further apart.
It'll be interesting watching him next year and onward, definitely showed some glimpses of brilliance, but as should be expected he's clearly not "there" yet.
SmellOfVictory
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- Jun 3, 2011
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SeanLafortune
@SeanLafortune
But even thats subjective. Defenders who constantly play against the best forwards will almost always have a worse +/- versus teammates who are powerplay specialists and never see the ice against top competition. Plus minus is a severely flawed measuring point. Easiest way to see if someone plays well in their own end, use your eyes and judge.
That said, you are right, any 15 year old will be bad defensively. Day has been better then most expected, and should be pretty damn impressive as a 17 year old in this league.
Patmac40
BESTPOSTERINTHEGAME
Quick question, since when did power play production factor into +/-??
I think he means guys that play sheltered minutes 5 on 5 but get loads of PP time (ie. Cody Franson) are more likely to have a higher +/- because they aren't playing against the stiffest of competition while playing even strength.
Let me ask u a question, if Darnell Nurse played in Day's spot this year in the exact same scenario's and same ice time, would the plus/minus numbers be identical on the Steelheads? It would be tough to say yes they would be. If u want to take it further to the extreme, insert Chara in there...is he -27? Its not a knock to suggest the young man needs to polish up his own zone, its normal for a 15 or 16 yr old. I agree that -27 does not tell the whole story about him, not at all. It may suggest he needs to polish up work in his own zone and I think thats fair by watching him play this year a handful of times, its expected for any young man. He is doing great and I think his future is extremely bright in all zones.
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Makes sense to me. My opinion is +/- rating is one of the most overrated statistics (not as much as GAA though). Examples.....
Ron Francis was a -6 during his career, but is widely known as one of the better two-way centers to ever play the game.
Bob Gainey won the Selke trophy in 79/80, while he was -2.
On the other hand, Jaromir Jagr is currently +289 in his career, but has been regarded as one of the biggest "floaters" in the league.
Patmac40
BESTPOSTERINTHEGAME
I agree that it's very overrated. There are more factors than individual play that come into play when taking +/- into account.
SeanLafortune
@SeanLafortune
Quick question, since when did power play production factor into +/-??
Exactly, thought it was fairly well put out, but thanks for that.
SeanLafortune
@SeanLafortune
It is obviously easier seeing in person.
In this case though, as his D is a lot worst than the other D men, and he always will have another out with him, they are obviously rotating D men in and out with him and regardless of whom is out there the +/- happens.
Comparing outliers of the +/- on the same team is the only time I find that stat useful, but even then its still somewhat limited.
Brock
Registered User
There's no question that he has some things to work on. I didn't mean to imply that he was perfect or wasn't responsible for some of those "minuses." He's a 15/16 year old rookie, of course he has his faults. What I was simply stating was that he hasn't been as bad defensively as his +/- suggests. In fact, I expected him to struggle more than he has defensively. All things considered, I've been impressed with his potential in his own end and his ability to develop into an elite two-way defender.
I have attended most of the home games and what I see is a good young player on a pretty mediocre team. Day gets lots of ice time but is generally not paired with the top forwards so not much scoring happening to balance out goals against - whether his fault or that he just happened to be on the ice (like against Guelph where the Guelph player looped a shot form centre to get a change and the puck does a funny bounce over the goalie's arm). His PP unit is pretty productive, whether he is on #1 or #2 unit but none of those goals count on +/-. In interviews he has said the coaches are asking him to breakouts and hold back to focus on the defensive side of the game so his previous offense threat has been toned down for a while on purpose. At the end of the day, the coaches obviously know his contribution and play are way better than the +/- rating since they keep dressing him and keep giving him a regular shift. Same cannot be said for all the D even though they are down to 6 players.
He has the worst +/- on the team with -26 (and he missed 3 games).
Has he been rushed to the OHL?
Has he been rushed to the OHL?
3 Minute Minor
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- Sep 29, 2009
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It's really not a big deal. Slater Koekkoek was a -26 last year with Peterborough and he was a 10th overall pick the year before. As a 16 year old, he was a -29. He's a +36 right now with Windsor. Roland McKeown was a -24 last year with Kingston and he's now a +26. Sean Monahan was a -18 in the OHL last year and he's in the NHL now lol
The stat means nothing unless it's put into context.
His plus minus stat, tells a very accurate story right now. His defensive zone play is below average right now. Lack of compete, stop's skating and just watches as chaos increases around him. Its actually quite puzzling to watch at times the situations that are happening and he doesnt seem to mind at all. Little urgency when the puck is in dangerous spots. He comes to life when his team has possession though but needs to grow his game in his own zone, no question about it.
As a Steelheads fan, I enjoy watching Sean game in and game out, there's been his ups and downs this year.
But I have to think. What could have been if he didn't get exceptional status and joined a GTHL team like the Marlies. Would his development have been stunted or slowed down? Just wondering.
But I have to think. What could have been if he didn't get exceptional status and joined a GTHL team like the Marlies. Would his development have been stunted or slowed down? Just wondering.
I am not sure anything could have been gained playing minor midget. He still would not have learned how to defend, I would bet that taking his lumps against older kids has been the best for him. If he waited until next year he still wouldn't know how to play in his own zone.
Agreed, his skating outgrew the rinks he was playing on, playing minor midget again would have been a waste of time, imo. Playing against OHL talent can only help him get better. He has fit in quite well this year. Looks well beyond his age.
No question he has room to improve, and I see what Mapleleaf is describing, but I also note for the last 6 weeks he has been mainly neutral (he was -26 on Dec 22 and is -30 now) even though the rest of the team has dropped significantly. For example JW is also -30 and he was something like -5 in early January, SL is -14 since joining the team in the Carrick deal, the forwards have also dropped a lot in the last month.
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