LD Olli Juolevi - TPS, Liiga (2016, 5th, VAN)

[Legend Leinonen]

Sorry, but you dont seem to know really how the bulking up works for most of the young players. When you train in the right way and eat the right kind of nutrition, you will not get too much of extra fat. And they do often stamina training around the same time, to exactly avoid too much of fat gaining. This is exactly how it worked for Laine, and I have understood that the same has applied to Juolevi’s training.

They are anyway training with absolute top training professionals, so they are definitely going forward in a very good and smart way.

Btw, look at any of the Finnish top players and you will see that they have gone the same route. Barkov, Granlund, Rantanen and Ristolainen all for example had one set back season in their skating as they bulked up a lot to get enough of physical tools to start building their skating to a clearly better direction. When you have bulked up, only then there is more efficient use from training skating technique with for example figure skating trainers. This is exactly how both Barkov and Granlund have done. First they bulked up as quickly as they could after their rookie seasons, then they had their setback season, and then after that they started training their skating technique intensively.

It’s best to have a good plan for a longer period and not just for one season, if you want to truly become a real top class player. You just don’t seem to get it. Sometimes getting better in the long run can mean that you have to make some short time sacrifices.

Bulking up nonsense just wastes a year in their development. Of course they start to develop after they stop with that nonsense.

Juolevi came to camp fat because he had stupid coach who turned him into slow fat guy. Now when he has lost the fat, he's elevating his game. I think it's a pretty dumb training method to turn athlete into fatso, so you can say in 6 months, "see he is now playing better like a told" (after the poor kid lost the fat with slowed him down at the beginning duh)

 

[arttk]

And what makes you so sure of that? In fact his latest development has been very impressive, so I at least wouldn’t be so hasty to write him off from being even in an NHL top pairing in his prime. I’m not claiming he will be there for sure, but I think it is also quite foolish to write him off after his recent very good development.

Because if he was developing like a top paring D he would be playing in the NHL.
Unless you are suggesting that Juolevi is some kind of outlier.

It’s not writing him off but being more realistic based off of what he has shown to date. He seems back on track but stagnating for one year and playing badly during the preseason is not something you would see from a potential 1st paring guy.

 

[TheFinnishTrap]

Because if he was developing like a top paring D he would be playing in the NHL.
Unless you are suggesting that Juolevi is some kind of outlier.

It’s not writing him off but being more realistic based off of what he has shown to date. He seems back on track but stagnating for one year and playing badly during the preseason is not something you would see from a potential 1st paring guy.

I feel like you have a distorted image of how defenders develop. I'd say those who play in the NHL during their D+1 and D+2 seasons are the outliers. If you have the time, go through the defenders you consider 1st pairing (that means about 62 defenders) and see when they entered the NHL.

 

[Ippenator]

Bulking up nonsense just wastes a year in their development. Of course they start to develop after they stop with that nonsense.

Juolevi came to camp fat because he had stupid coach who turned him into slow fat guy. Now when he has lost the fat, he's elevating his game. I think it's a pretty dumb training method to turn athlete into fatso, so you can say in 6 months, "see he is now playing better like a told" (after the poor kid lost the fat with slowed him down at the beginning duh)

So lost and so aggressive. So sad really.

 

[arttk]

I feel like you have a distorted image of how defenders develop. I'd say those who play in the NHL during their D+1 and D+2 seasons are the outliers. If you have the time, go through the defenders you consider 1st pairing (that means about 62 defenders) and see when they entered the NHL.

Let's look at 1st paring guys that were drafted in the 1st round

Shea Weber - D+2 in the NHL part time
Karlsson - D+1 in the NHL
Suter - D+2 in the NHL full time
Pietrangelo - D+3 in the NHL full time (injured in D+2 year)
Doughty - D+1 full time
Lindholm - D+2 full time

I can go through more of this but I will concede that playing in D+1 is more outlier but for guys drafted in the 1st round who ends up being a 1st paring guy, they are pretty much in the NHL by D+2. Basically Juolevi's play is what we would've hoped to see last year. I know he is getting back on track but most guys who become 1st paring guys just don't stagnate in their D+1 season.

 

[Love]

Let's look at 1st paring guys that were drafted in the 1st round

Shea Weber - D+2 in the NHL part time
Karlsson - D+1 in the NHL
Suter - D+2 in the NHL full time
Pietrangelo - D+3 in the NHL full time (injured in D+2 year)
Doughty - D+1 full time
Lindholm - D+2 full time

I can go through more of this but I will concede that playing in D+1 is more outlier but for guys drafted in the 1st round who ends up being a 1st paring guy, they are pretty much in the NHL by D+2. Basically Juolevi's play is what we would've hoped to see last year. I know he is getting back on track but most guys who become 1st paring guys just don't stagnate in their D+1 season.

Weber wasn't a first rounder and didn't make the NHL part time until D+3.

Karlsson didn't make it until D+2.

Suter D+3.

Pietrangelo D+3

Doughty D+1

Lindholm D+2

So you got Doughty and Lindholm right but the rest are off by a year.

 

[HockeyAnalystGenius]

Oh, the bulker crowd of unathletic posters is here. No it's not a good idea. Yes it delays every prospect's development. Terrible staff management in Vancouver the last several years.

 

[Siludin]

It's not like Juolevi is taking a statistical dump this year (compare to Virtanen's minor league numbers). He is doing well in his graduation to playing against men. Salo is the single most underrated top pairing defenseman in NHL history imo - if he can rub off on Juolevi the Canucks are in for a good ride.
Hope they can skip the injury bug.

 

[Legend Leinonen]

Oh, the bulker crowd of unathletic posters is here. No it's not a good idea. Yes it delays every prospect's development. Terrible staff management in Vancouver the last several years.

If you tell a young kid that he needs to weigh this and this to play in the NHL or in next training camp, the basic human psychology is to cheat (conciously or unconciously). In other words he's going to eat himself to that weight. It's so obvious even by looking at these kids physiques that they just got fat - nothing more. I know what 10 kg muscle looks like - doesn't look like these kids.

 

[Ippenator]

If you tell a young kid that he needs to weigh this and this to play in the NHL or in next training camp, the basic human psychology is to cheat (conciously or unconciously). In other words he's going to eat himself to that weight. It's so obvious even by looking at these kids physiques that they just got fat - nothing more. I know what 10 kg muscle looks like - doesn't look like these kids.

OMG how bad post! Nothing to do with realism. You seriously think that kids that that are very talented and are looking for to get into the best hockey league in the world would be so damn stupid to cheat like that? If your seriously believe in that you are completely naive.

You have so much holes in your logic and your knowledge about training seems to be completely lacking. I can see that you are furious though about kids doing some bulking up. But the thing is that when they do it with the help of professionals it is most of the time done right. I think you should seriously study thoroughly how players like Granlund, Barkov and Rantanen were doing their bulking up, and how their careers took a setback year or even two before they started to get really going with their careers. They did the needed bulking up and then started to focus more on other things. I don’t see anyone complaining now.

You should also realize that the bulking up that is done is done exactly mostly to add more explosive strength to the legs, and then generally more strength to the core. This kind of strength is really absolutely necessary to gain before you will have a good enough foundation to build on to really be able to make it in the NHL.

If you don’t do the needed and right kind of bulking up, you will, instead of one year of a setback season, most likely have several years of mediocrity, as a player with not enough basic strength will just not have a chance to do really well in the NHL even nowadays.

 

[Legend Leinonen]

OMG how bad post! Nothing to do with realism. You seriously think that kids that that are very talented and are looking for to get into the best hockey league in the world would be so damn stupid to cheat like that? If your seriously believe in that you are completely naive.

You have so much holes in your logic and your knowledge about training seems to be completely lacking. I can see that you are furious though about kids doing some bulking up. But the thing is that when they do it with the help of professionals it is most of the time done right. I think you should seriously study thoroughly how players like Granlund, Barkov and Rantanen were doing their bulking up, and how their careers took a setback year or even two before they started to get really going with their careers. They did the needed bulking up and then started to focus more on other things. I don’t see anyone complaining now.

You should also realize that the bulking up that is done is done exactly mostly to add more explosive strength to the legs, and then generally more strength to the core. This kind of strength is really absolutely necessary to gain before you will have a good enough foundation to build on to really be able to make it in the NHL.

If you don’t do the needed and right kind of bulking up, you will, instead of one year of a setback season, most likely have several years of mediocrity, as a player with not enough basic strength will just not have a chance to do really well in the NHL even nowadays.

There is just no way you can prove none of those players needed to waste a year playing fat, to play good now. &yeah young players come fat to camp all the time. Just use your eyes. It's so freaking obvious that 99% of these so called "Fitness coaches" are just modern day snake oil salesmen.

 

[stampedingviking]

I see so many memes about Juolevi and then I check his stats and they look pretty damn promising. Am I missing something or are Nuck fans flagellating themselves over Tkachuk?

There's a certain element of Canuck "fans" who will moan at everything that Benning does/has done, especially prospects if they don't make the NHL in their draft +1 year, otherwise they will be considered a bust.

 

[Ippenator]

There's a certain element of Canuck "fans" who will moan at everything that Benning does/has done, especially prospects if they don't make the NHL in their draft +1 year, otherwise they will be considered a bust.

I have noticed this when reading posts on the Canucks board. Really ruthless handling of Virtanen and Juolevi at least. In fact it’s starting to look to me like Benning’s been after all doing a pretty decent job. People are just sometimes so damn impatient. Honestly gets on my nerves sometimes when people are right away crying when things don’t go exactly how they would have wanted. And when things don’t go like that they even seriously think that they know better than the professional people that have the responsibility. Ok, sometimes professionals can be wrong too, but to expect that they are wrong with practically everything they have done is really absurd.

There’s tons of variables that can change and with that change the expected end result. So don’t expect that what you would have done would have necessarily worked any better, as you don’t know for sure how all the variables could have changed the end result for you too.

 

[Hokinaittii]

Is there any reason why he didn't play tonight?

 

[eviohh26]

Pretty sure the guy with all the wrong stats aint coming back. Mr. arttk

 

[M2Beezy]

There's a certain element of Canuck "fans" who will moan at everything that Benning does/has done, especially prospects if they don't make the NHL in their draft +1 year, otherwise they will be considered a bust.

Wtf Canucks fans love Boeser Pettersson Lind Demko and Gaudette

????

Two top ten wasted picks tho thats the mondo mistake

 

[blindpass]

Umm did you see the part where all his information was made up ans not true?

I saw the errors that were pointed out. What were you adding?

 

[Elias Pettersson]

I saw the errors that were pointed out. What were you adding?

Calling out the fake news sources to make sure they don't spread lies like CNN. Sad!

 

[arttk]

Weber wasn't a first rounder and didn't make the NHL part time until D+3.

Karlsson didn't make it until D+2.

Suter D+3.

Pietrangelo D+3

Doughty D+1

Lindholm D+2

So you got Doughty and Lindholm right but the rest are off by a year.

Oops I guess I counted it wrong. Suter well I guess wouldn’t have been able to join because of the lockout and pietrangeo was pretty much injured.

Point is, can anyone say that these guys regressed?

 

[arttk]

Pretty sure the guy with all the wrong stats aint coming back. Mr. arttk

No I am still here, no problem admitting to mistakes.

 

[arttk]

I have noticed this when reading posts on the Canucks board. Really ruthless handling of Virtanen and Juolevi at least. In fact it’s starting to look to me like Benning’s been after all doing a pretty decent job. People are just sometimes so damn impatient. Honestly gets on my nerves sometimes when people are right away crying when things don’t go exactly how they would have wanted. And when things don’t go like that they even seriously think that they know better than the professional people that have the responsibility. Ok, sometimes professionals can be wrong too, but to expect that they are wrong with practically everything they have done is really absurd.

There’s tons of variables that can change and with that change the expected end result. So don’t expect that what you would have done would have necessarily worked any better, as you don’t know for sure how all the variables could have changed the end result for you too.

Virtanen is pretty much a bust, how do you expect us to react to him?
Benning is doing a horrible job, if he has been rebuilding since he has taken over, sure. He hasn’t, not even close.
It’s not about impatience, it’s about being realistic. Most prospects don’t make it to the NHL and only a really small number becomes good players. The best tool we have now is look at all the guys who has made it there and use their development track as a comparison point. Based off of that, at best we can project Juolevi as a top4 guy. It doesn’t mean he can’t, it’s just that when you look at all the top paring guys, Juolevi is not developing like they were.

 

[Ippenator]

Virtanen is pretty much a bust, how do you expect us to react to him?
Benning is doing a horrible job, if he has been rebuilding since he has taken over, sure. He hasn’t, not even close.
It’s not about impatience, it’s about being realistic. Most prospects don’t make it to the NHL and only a really small number becomes good players. The best tool we have now is look at all the guys who has made it there and use their development track as a comparison point. Based off of that, at best we can project Juolevi as a top4 guy. It doesn’t mean he can’t, it’s just that when you look at all the top paring guys, Juolevi is not developing like they were.

Right now he is, so just shut up, quit whining and watch how things fold out...

 

[arttk]

Right now he is, so just shut up, quit whining and watch how things fold out...

Chill out, talk about having a low bar for what constitutes as “whining”. I have made like 3 or 4 posts in this whole thread, apparently disagreeing with you is whining eh. I guess who is the bigger whiner.

He looks better than last year and the preseason, but in terms of development, he is one year behind.

 

[elitepete]

Opens Juolevi thread

Sees people talking about some nonsensical shit

Exits thread

 

[Krnuckfan]

There's a certain element of Canuck "fans" who will moan at everything that Benning does/has done, especially prospects if they don't make the NHL in their draft +1 year, otherwise they will be considered a bust.

Quit your whining. No one was complaining about Boeser and no one is complaining about how Pettersson and lind are developing.

There's a blind subset of "fans" who are more happy just playing cheerleader for a team than actually wanting them to win a cup and defending the moron of a gm no matter what he does