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LD Nikita Tryamkin - Avtomobilist Yekaterinburg, KHL (2014, 66th, VAN)

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jammyrft said:
How can you be so absolute in your statement? He's been playing top minutes on his team in the KHL against men, to suggest in absolutes that he's not ready for the NHL is a stretch. He could light up the league just as much as he could fail. Personally I think he'll stand out on the Canucks blue line but that's not saying much.
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From having seen him play in the KHL for years, including the series against Magnitka just a week ago. His play with the puck is still terrible by the NHL standards not to mention that he will need to adapt to the size of the rink and pace of the NHL game which will expose his weaknesses even more. You say "he could light up the league" but he can't. He really can't at this point.
 
SoundAndFury said:
There is no way Tryamkin is ready for the NHL. Just no way. He might get a few games but no way he stays for much longer. Unless Canucks want to tank as hard as possible.
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If he is that bad play him 30 mins a game if it helps the tank.

I'll wait and see him on NA ice to pronounce judgement before proclaiming him unready, I think he might surprise. If not they have at least secured his rights and he is isn't a UFA risk.
 
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SoundAndFury said:
From having seen him play in the KHL for years, including the series against Magnitka just a week ago. His play with the puck is still terrible by the NHL standards not to mention that he will need to adapt to the size of the rink and pace of the NHL game which will expose his weaknesses even more. You say "he could light up the league" but he can't. He really can't at this point.
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You do know he is 21 years old right?
 
SoundAndFury said:
From having seen him play in the KHL for years, including the series against Magnitka just a week ago. His play with the puck is still terrible by the NHL standards not to mention that he will need to adapt to the size of the rink and pace of the NHL game which will expose his weaknesses even more. You say "he could light up the league" but he can't. He really can't at this point.
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He isn't considered a puck mover, but a strictly defensive defenseman. As I said, I think he's ok for 6-7 D role, but we will soon see anyway.
 
Folks do realize having less space generally makes it easier to defend, right? I swear, people talk about the higher skill of the NHL game like it's gospel. At the top, sure, the NHL is in all likelihood a more skilled league in terms of players' ability to skate, handle the puck, pass, etc., but when you factor the goons and face-punchers and energy plugs that continuously persist in NA (and are less common--although hardly non-existent--in Europe) into what constitutes an "average" player I think the KHL is much closer in pure skill level to the NHL than most people would like to believe.

So many players have said this that it's basically conventional wisdom: Europe is slower and more skill-oriented while the NA game is predicated more on speed and physicality. The big ice is optimal for players with the former, while someone like Tryamkin seems on the face of things to be more suited for NA. Is there a transition period? Of course there is. Is it easy for everyone? Hell no. But it's hard to say Tryamkin isn't ready for the NHL when the only time anyone has seen him play at a pro level was in circumstances that were not ideally suited to his main attributes (size, strength, physicality).

May be wishful thinking on my part, but I think labeling him as defense-only is a little unfair. His mobility and net presence (like that way Avtomobilist was using him in the playoffs) will help him get some points. Smaller ice should by my reckoning help defensemen get involved in the game more since there's less room to cover.

He doesn't have to be the primary puck-mover and no one is claiming that he will be, but he has a big enough shot and good enough skills that I think he could justify a place on a team's 2nd power play unit down the line and get around 25-30 points a season if he played the full 82 games, which isn't strictly defensive by any measure. It all depends on how creative the Canucks are with utilizing his skill set.
 
So much interest in this guy from everyone for years now. He to make his debut next week should be really interesting how well he does. If tanman is still out he could he be on the first paring

Hutton Tryamkin
Hamhuis Sbisa
Barkowski Biega

Or if Tanman back

Hutton Tanev
Hamhuis Tryamkin
Sbisa Biega
 
To be honest, I think that a lot of patience will be required as it will take some time for him to develop. He's got great size and is surprisingly a strong skater for his size. But he still is pretty raw. His best choice would probably be to spend half a year in the AHL working on his game but I'm not sure he'd be willing to take the pay cut.
I like the pick and think he has the potential to develop into a decent stay at home defenseman. Just will take a while.
 
Lucbourdon said:
You do know he is 21 years old right?
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What does that have to do with anything I've said? I said he isn't ready to play in the NHL next week which is kinda closely related to the fact that he is 21.

Kshahdoo said:
He isn't considered a puck mover, but a strictly defensive defenseman. As I said, I think he's ok for 6-7 D role, but we will soon see anyway.
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I think it's pretty obvious at this point that if you want to play D in the NHL you have to move the puck well otherwise you won't leave your zone all night and be a burden on your team. If you want to be Hall Gill/Jarred Tinordi you better go back to 2002. Now I'm not saying Tryamkin is Hall Gill but at this point his play with the puck is really lacking.

Also Mr. Astoria-guy talking about face-punchers and plugs, I'd suggest you to watch an NHL game more often than once in 10 years, that could be an enjoyable experience for you. Also the time you have to make a decision with the puck as a D obviously is so much shorter in NA which is the main issue here. Lets face it, forecheck and KHL don't belong in the same sentence with few teams being an exceptions.
 
Mathletic said:
Big kid at 6'6 220 per eliteprospects, having a good season as well it seems for Avto Yekaterinburg. Just wondering if fellow Russians have anything to say on the kid.
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Differing sizes out there for Tryamkin but he is now in Vancouver and I think he has confirmed his size to be 6'8" and 240.
 
SoundAndFury said:
What does that have to do with anything I've said? I said he isn't ready to play in the NHL next week which is kinda closely related to the fact that he is 21.



I think it's pretty obvious at this point that if you want to play D in the NHL you have to move the puck well otherwise you won't leave your zone all night and be a burden on your team. If you want to be Hall Gill/Jarred Tinordi you better go back to 2002. Now I'm not saying Tryamkin is Hall Gill but at this point his play with the puck is really lacking.

Also Mr. Astoria-guy talking about face-punchers and plugs, I'd suggest you to watch an NHL game more often than once in 10 years, that could be an enjoyable experience for you. Also the time you have to make a decision with the puck as a D obviously is so much shorter in NA which is the main issue here. Lets face it, forecheck and KHL don't belong in the same sentence with few teams being an exceptions.
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It's gotten better about removing goons, yes, but no way in hell can you say that the NHL is totally over the concept of pests, energy checkers, and general people on the 4th line who simply aren't that good at playing hockey at the professional level. Segregating checking and scoring lines only reinforces the idea that it's OK to sign players clearly deficient in offensive skills whose primary positive attributes are hard work and defense. Pretty much any team's 4th line has symptoms of this, when one could just as easily roll four possession/scoring lines with skilled players and probably have equivalent success. We just don't see it because no one tries. God forbid if innovation existed in pro sports!
 
AstoriaIceNinja said:
It's gotten better about removing goons, yes, but no way in hell can you say that the NHL is totally over the concept of pests, energy checkers, and general people on the 4th line who simply aren't that good at playing hockey at the professional level. Segregating checking and scoring lines only reinforces the idea that it's OK to sign players clearly deficient in offensive skills whose primary positive attributes are hard work and defense. Pretty much any team's 4th line has symptoms of this, when one could just as easily roll four possession/scoring lines with skilled players and probably have equivalent success. We just don't see it because no one tries. God forbid if innovation existed in pro sports!
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Those players play 5-8 minutes a night though.
 
AstoriaIceNinja said:
people on the 4th line who simply aren't that good at playing hockey at the professional level. <...> one could just as easily roll four possession/scoring lines with skilled players and probably have equivalent success. We just don't see it because no one tries. God forbid if innovation existed in pro sports!
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Some 4th lines from a regular Wednesday night in the NHL (yesterday):

Wilson-Sissons-Watson; Burrows-McCann-Vrbata; Clifford-Shore-Versteeg and etc. I'd say those are possession lines with skilled players unless you consider Vrbata a grinder. So we do see it. We do see it ever since Hawks won the cup with Frolik on the 4th line. Surely there is a random Bollig in there but 4th lines made off people who can't play hockey are a thing of the past. I mean Blues had Reaves on the 4th line but at the same time they had Scottie Upshall on it. Ottawa still has Neil, he played with Lazar and Hoffman last game. Or look at Detroit's roster, if that's not rolling 4 lines I don't know what is. Long story short, like I said, just catch up with the times.
 
tl;dr: As long as Matt Cooke remains a UFA, we can call that progress.

I've already admitted that progress was being made to some degree, but when the Devils fourth line includes Jordin Tootoo and Stephen Gionta, the B's have Tyler Randell, the Jets have Anthony Peluso, the Leafs have Rich Clune (who granted probably wouldn't even be on the team if it wasn't the Leafs) it's hard to say the grinder archetype is dead. Dying, perhaps, which I will be glad to see happen, but hardly gone.

In the interests of being fair, though, the NHL isn't alone. SKA have Artyukin...
 
I've never seen a 3rd round pick get so much hype.
Especially true if you consider he doesn't come with any real stat's (aside from his size), awards or accolades (outside of Canucks brass or fans).

That kind of pressure, combined with a kid that is likely not willing to go through an AHL transition period...this has the makings of a big 'fail'.

That's not my commentary on him as a player (I think under different circumstances he could develop into a 4 or 5)...but, this just doesn't feel like the best circumstances for him to be starting his NHL career.
 
IComeInPeace said:
I've never seen a 3rd round pick get so much hype.
Especially true if you consider he doesn't come with any real stat's (aside from his size), awards or accolades (outside of Canucks brass or fans).

That kind of pressure, combined with a kid that is likely not willing to go through an AHL transition period...this has the makings of a big 'fail'.

That's not my commentary on him as a player (I think under different circumstances he could develop into a 4 or 5)...but, this just doesn't feel like the best circumstances for him to be starting his NHL career.
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The issue will be what happens if he doesn't make the Canucks next season. Will people determine him to be a failure when a still-22-years-old player doesn't make the NHL team IF he elects to go back to Russia? I think some will jump on that boat, even if he doesn't deserve it. But under the assumption that he does go back, any deal that he signs would presumably have a clause to let him go back to the NHL, so it's not like the bridge would be burned.

As for stats, he has three seasons of pro hockey experience at the 2nd highest level in the world; although his KHL scoring rate is a pedestrian (to be kind) 0.15, last year was his strongest season yet at 0.21, 0.06 percentage points (or, put another way, 33% higher) than his career average. So his career to this point would seem to steady improvement and increased responsibility, and there's little reason to suspect that this trajectory won't continue to some degree.

Yes, he is hyped quite a bit; this tends to be the case with players with physical tools this rare. But I don't think there's a huge amount of risk as expectations about his upside seem pretty tempered: a significant number of posters seem to be of the opinion that he isn't ready for the NHL anyway and won't ever amount to anything more than a third-pairing, defense-only player.
 
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AstoriaIceNinja said:
Folks do realize having less space generally makes it easier to defend, right? I swear, people talk about the higher skill of the NHL game like it's gospel. At the top, sure, the NHL is in all likelihood a more skilled league in terms of players' ability to skate, handle the puck, pass, etc., but when you factor the goons and face-punchers and energy plugs that continuously persist in NA (and are less common--although hardly non-existent--in Europe) into what constitutes an "average" player I think the KHL is much closer in pure skill level to the NHL than most people would like to believe.
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Look, I get what you're saying, but when a league has guys like Tim Sestito, Lukas Kaspar, Dustin Boyd etc. thriving, I have a hard time seeing it as being that close to the NHL.

Having watched the KHL rather extensively (I watch the MHL more), I can safely say it isn't close YET.
 
Mogilny to Bure said:
Can someone just measure and way him please geeeeeeze :laugh:
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lol, he's been consistent with saying 202cm throughout every interview but Vancouver media doesn't seem to know how to convert cm into feet and inches.

202cm = 6.6 feet, that doesn't mean he's 6'6.

6.6 feet equals to 6'7.5 in feet and inches.
 
AstoriaIceNinja said:
Folks do realize having less space generally makes it easier to defend, right?
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The defensive zone game in the NHL is much more difficult, mostly because there's much less space to cover. Forecheckers are on you almost immediately and have it much easier to cover your passing lanes. Teams that can't move the puck end up stuck defending for extended stretches resulting in tiredness and more mistakes.

AstoriaIceNinja said:
Smaller ice should by my reckoning help defensemen get involved in the game more since there's less room to cover.
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The amount of ice to cover is exactly the same between NHL and international hockey. The only difference is rink width which makes no difference to what you're talking about. Again, because guys are on you much faster in the NHL, only the best puck movers can get involved offensively whereas guys with poor puck skills or slow decision making are better off handling the puck as little as possible.

It's why guys like Cam Barker who are horrendous skaters and slow decision makers are actually able to generate offense in the KHL. Whereas in the NHL it was just turnovers galore.
 
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