Yes, certainly appears that Garth Snow schooled Chiarelli on this deal....what a haul by the Isles for a player they'd obviously made up their minds on....when it comes to failed first rounders, in the words of the Gambler Kenny Rogers, "you got to know when to hold 'em and know when to throw 'em"!
LD Griffin Reinhart (2012, 4th, NYI; traded to EDM) II
- Thread starter ForsbergForever
- Start date
I hate how Tavares get paraded around as slow guys can be good skaters. First off, Tavares wasn't super awful. Second, Tavares improved it early on in his NHL career...not after 22. Lastly, Tavares is an elite player not someone who can't make the NHL. Other players who improved their skating did so before 5 years after their draft...
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- Dec 28, 2015
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You do know "et al" means "and others" right?
Stone and Draisaitl are other recent examples. The poster I responded to said skating can't be improved and that is flat out wrong.
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To be clear, Griffin has not played well at all this preseason and who knows if he will improve his skating. Maybe he won't.
But, as a general point, skating absolutely can be improved with proper training on the ice, weight training, and techniques. Maybe Griff losing some weight could help too.
But, as a general point, skating absolutely can be improved with proper training on the ice, weight training, and techniques. Maybe Griff losing some weight could help too.
Roof Daddy
Registered User
- Apr 1, 2008
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Hated it then, hate it even more now.
There are numerous layers of failure to dissect here, going back to 2012....
The 2012 draft. The Oilers scouting staff seems slightly in favour of Ryan Murray. They get overruled by Katz for the flashier, more dynamic Yakupov (which I completely agreed with at the time). Much of the reasoning behind the selection (in the Edmonton media) was that the strength of the Oilers prospect pool was LHD with guys like Klefbom and Marincin in the fold. Stauffer repeatedly speculated Klefbom was viewed within the organization as having a higher ceiling than Murray/Reinhart and that was why they'd forego taking a D man in a (perceived) weak draft year.
Fast forward to the 2015 draft. Chiarelli has inherited a team with a scouting staff that he is not familiar with, a scouting staff ripe with numerous members of the OBC (love Semenko for being Gretzky's bodyguard all those years, but I question if he ever contributed a single thing to any one draft). I don't think it's a shock that Chia was looking to do business with the 16th pick, but everyone involved in that deal completely **** the bed:
The organization. If you passed on Murray/Reinhart in 2012 because LHD wasn't deemed a need, why was it suddenly a need in 2015 after adding Nurse in 2013?
Green. Moroz's complete lack of development after 3 years should have been enough evidence that his former junior sweethearts aren't guaranteed any success at the pro level.
Chiarelli. Even if you want to give him a pass for trusting Green, the value was still horrible. I think this was the first year they tried to speed up the time in between picks, so maybe he felt rushed, but why do the deal then?
The only silver lining is who knows who we would have actually taken if Chia was going off his Intel from the Boston scouting staff during the year. Quite possible it would have been a wasted pick anyway despite the 2 consensus studs that fell.
There are numerous layers of failure to dissect here, going back to 2012....
The 2012 draft. The Oilers scouting staff seems slightly in favour of Ryan Murray. They get overruled by Katz for the flashier, more dynamic Yakupov (which I completely agreed with at the time). Much of the reasoning behind the selection (in the Edmonton media) was that the strength of the Oilers prospect pool was LHD with guys like Klefbom and Marincin in the fold. Stauffer repeatedly speculated Klefbom was viewed within the organization as having a higher ceiling than Murray/Reinhart and that was why they'd forego taking a D man in a (perceived) weak draft year.
Fast forward to the 2015 draft. Chiarelli has inherited a team with a scouting staff that he is not familiar with, a scouting staff ripe with numerous members of the OBC (love Semenko for being Gretzky's bodyguard all those years, but I question if he ever contributed a single thing to any one draft). I don't think it's a shock that Chia was looking to do business with the 16th pick, but everyone involved in that deal completely **** the bed:
The organization. If you passed on Murray/Reinhart in 2012 because LHD wasn't deemed a need, why was it suddenly a need in 2015 after adding Nurse in 2013?
Green. Moroz's complete lack of development after 3 years should have been enough evidence that his former junior sweethearts aren't guaranteed any success at the pro level.
Chiarelli. Even if you want to give him a pass for trusting Green, the value was still horrible. I think this was the first year they tried to speed up the time in between picks, so maybe he felt rushed, but why do the deal then?
The only silver lining is who knows who we would have actually taken if Chia was going off his Intel from the Boston scouting staff during the year. Quite possible it would have been a wasted pick anyway despite the 2 consensus studs that fell.
It was bad at the time so I don't see why it would be any worse now. I mean it wasn't Can Neely for Barry Pederson bad but still
That draft was pretty terrible. No idea why Forsberg slipped so much, but he did for whatever reason. Rielly teams were sceptical due to his knee injury and Lindholm was a late-riser. It was a bad pick, and many players would go ahead of him in a re-draft (Forsberg, Rielly, Trouba, Dumba, Ceci, Hertl, etc). But I agree, Snow's drafting high in the draft has been very questionable outside of Tavares.
CantHaveTkachev
Cap Space > NHL players
the need was for an NHL-ready defenseman..remember this was done before Sekera was signed...
and people in the organization legitimately thought Reinhart could play in the top-6 at the time....which is crazy to think and I was so angry at the price they paid for him
as for Moroz, blame Tambo for picking him way too high...pretty sure he was ranked as a 3rd rounder
Roof Daddy
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That's a fair point. We agree 100% it was a completely misguided perception. Why would they think a guy who wasn't even their best AHL D man could step directly into our lineup and be a difference maker.
Pulock I think was a good pick (and really wanted him to slip to the Leafs that year). Strome could turn it around (or take the next step) but I would think most would take Couturier or Scheifele (who was considered a reach at the time) over him.
SLAPSHOT723
QU! Bobcats!
Pulock was a great pick, kid's going to be an all star. Strome can turn it around. MDC still has a little time.
The rest, yes, are suspect.
me2
Go ahead foot
Both of those guys improved fairly early, Stone and Draisaitl were making big improvements are 18-20 yo range. If there is an obvious fix/improvement, technique or muscle, it usually shows improvement quickly.
- May 17, 2011
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Reinhart was very highly regarding in his draft year, the problem was he completely stagnated in his post draft years instead of taking the next step. There is data on WHL defensemen and how point production can actually correlate to becoming an NHL player.
Reinhart's offense simply never came around and having poor skating wasn't helping either.
IReinhart as a 16 and 17 year old was a much better skater than post draft Reinhart. It seems like the more he grew into his frame, the less atheltic he got and his skating went.
That's how some big guys go.
Reinhart's offense simply never came around and having poor skating wasn't helping either.
IReinhart as a 16 and 17 year old was a much better skater than post draft Reinhart. It seems like the more he grew into his frame, the less atheltic he got and his skating went.
That's how some big guys go.
LordNeverLose
Registered User
The Bailey pick was a good one. Not that I think he's a good player, but that draft sucked between picks 5-14, Myers is the only impact player and maybe a guy like Bodker or C. Smith, but Bailey is better than FIlatov, Schenn, Beach, Tubert, Boychuk. Karlsson, Eberle, and Carlson went late in the 1st, but all would've been massive reaches at 9.
'08 Bailey (C+ cause traded down)
'09 Tavares (A+ but was a gimme)
__ De Haan (B+ has turned into a solid 2nd pair guy, no complaints)
'10 Nino (F terrible pick)
__ Nelson (A- Sure maybe Toffoli or Faulk would've been better but getting a 25+ goal scorer at the end of the 1st is a win)
'11 Strome (B Yeah he's been passed by Scheiffele Couts and Zib, but Strome still should turn out to be a decent 2C)
'12 Reinhart (F but identified the mistake and turned it into a success)
'13 Pulock (A great pick, no complaints)
'14 Dal Colle (D+ jury still out but he's already been passed by many picked after him, hopefully he'll hit his potential still)
__ Ho-Sang (A- so far has looked great, has a sky-high ceiling that hopefully he'll reach)
'15 Barzal (A looks to be great value at 16, tremendous upside)
__ Beauvillier (A has done nothing but exceed expectations since being drafted)
'16 Bellows (A obviously too early to tell, but I never thought he'd make it to 19 love the pick)
'08 Bailey (C+ cause traded down)
'09 Tavares (A+ but was a gimme)
__ De Haan (B+ has turned into a solid 2nd pair guy, no complaints)
'10 Nino (F terrible pick)
__ Nelson (A- Sure maybe Toffoli or Faulk would've been better but getting a 25+ goal scorer at the end of the 1st is a win)
'11 Strome (B Yeah he's been passed by Scheiffele Couts and Zib, but Strome still should turn out to be a decent 2C)
'12 Reinhart (F but identified the mistake and turned it into a success)
'13 Pulock (A great pick, no complaints)
'14 Dal Colle (D+ jury still out but he's already been passed by many picked after him, hopefully he'll hit his potential still)
__ Ho-Sang (A- so far has looked great, has a sky-high ceiling that hopefully he'll reach)
'15 Barzal (A looks to be great value at 16, tremendous upside)
__ Beauvillier (A has done nothing but exceed expectations since being drafted)
'16 Bellows (A obviously too early to tell, but I never thought he'd make it to 19 love the pick)
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Pretty remarkable year for Dmen considering how weak the 2012 draft was at forward.
Mike Matheson (he looked strong at the 2016 WHC), Gostisbehere, and Parayko were also in the draft with Ghost and Parayko going in the 3rd.
Also, most of the time it is the first 3 strides and explosiveness cleaned up. While Reinhart needs to improve in those area, its his 4 way mobility that needs the most improvement. I'm also starting to doubt his supposed high-iqness, his reads on how much of a cushion and when to challenge leave much to be desired.
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Yeah, he might never be a regular NHLer. Too early to tell. Dmen take longer than forwards, he needs a lot of work. However, he's smart enough that I think he might be a #5/6 one day. Who knows?
It was a gamble, doesn't look like it paid off. The Talbot and Maroon deals more than offset it.
AnArmchairScout
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lomiller1
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It could be worse. The Jets have an obsession with D-men who can’t handle the puck. You can still play on the third pairing if you can’t skate but if you can’t make a play beyond banging the puck off the glass you don’t belong in the NHL anymore. IMO Reinhart can still have a career as a bottom paring D.
Also, I’m so glad they didn’t keep the pick and draft Kyle Connor. The speed with him on a line with McDavid would scare the crap out of every team in the league. This way, we get him instead. THX Oilers!
I don't think that's the problem, honestly. I think the problem is that Reinhart's strength was supposed to be poise and hockey sense. The problem is that it seems to me (just my opinion) is that a weakness seems to be an inability to forget, move on and play with confidence after making a mistake which then undermines his poise and hockey sense.
I still think the problem is confidence. The best Reinhart ever looked was in NYI camp in 2013 and 2014. It's not just that he hasn't developed. He's gone downhill. I think that can only be a confidence or personality issue.
Jtown
Registered User
BruinDust
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2005
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Keep thinking that if it makes you feel better.
I'd rather have Barzal, and I'd would of taken Connor over any of them, but all 3 guys Boston took appear to very solid prospects who while none may ever be superstars, all 3 project as solid quality NHLers. Debrusk may even see a cup of coffee this year depending on how the injury bug goes.
I wonder if Reinhart will clear waivers now in a week or so?
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