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LD Dennis Cholowski - St. Cloud State, NCAA (2016, 20th, DET, selected by SEA, claimed by WSH)

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nb2928 said:
Do keep in mind that Detroit only drafted 3 d-men in the first round since 2000, and none of them in the top-10. So I understand you want to look back into the history and all, but I see it as a failed argument.
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Implying you can only draft a top pairing D man in the first round?
 
ImNeverWrong said:
he's not getting flukey 2nd assists though, you probably know better than me but he's been your best dman too and it hasn't been close. a calder nomination wouldn't shock me, he will get all the opportunity to produce.
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Calder Trophy runner-ups seem to be the best in Red Wings jersey... I hope for that. :)

some Calder Trophy Winners from the past:

83-84 Tom Barrasso (runner up: Steve Yzerman)
90-91 Ed Belfour (runner up: Sergei Fedorov)
91-92 Pavel Bure (runner up: Nicklas Lidström)
02-03 Barret Jackman (runner up: Henrik Zetterberg)
 
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nb2928 said:
Do keep in mind that Detroit only drafted 3 d-men in the first round since 2000, and none of them in the top-10. So I understand you want to look back into the history and all, but I see it as a failed argument.
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You havent made a valid point what so ever. You dont turn first round picks into stars just by picking them in the top 10 or wherever, you develop them. You do that with all your prospects regardless of where you picked them.
 
SimplySolace said:
Implying you can only draft a top pairing D man in the first round?
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cg98 said:
You havent made a valid point what so ever. You dont turn first round picks into stars just by picking them in the top 10 or wherever, you develop them. You do that with all your prospects regardless of where you picked them.
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Top pairing d-men don't grow on trees, there's only a handful of them in the league, and your odds of getting them in the later rounds is less than the 1st round. How many teams out there developed a top-pairing d-man drafted outside the first round since 2000? I can't imagine too many of them. Development does play a roll, but so does luck and potential.
 
nb2928 said:
Top pairing d-men don't grow on trees, there's only a handful of them in the league, and your odds of getting them in the later rounds is less than the 1st round. How many teams out there developed a top-pairing d-man drafted outside the first round since 2000? I can't imagine too many of them. Development does play a roll, but so does luck and potential.
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Yeah this is definitely true. Detroit hasnt developed many dmen but when you dont use first rounders on them its very difficult to get a toppairing guy. Even if Detroit was using 2nd rounders for a lot of those 20 years,theyre picking close to 60 and its almost the equivalent of picking in the third. I would say recently the only really legit number 1 D types that are in Norris contention that werent first rounders are Subban and Weber who were mid second rounders, Weber in the greatest draft ever. A guy like Duncan Keith was drafted almost 20 years ago so I'm not really counting him.

I mean guys like Klingberg and Ghost can be found outside of the first as well, but theyre very rare. Its basically if youre not a first or early second with dmen its not likely youre a top pairing guy. I think impact forwards are more easily found outside of the early rounds than dmen are and when they are found its usually by rebuilding teams with a lot of picks. Even with Nashville finding Weber, he was a mid second in the greatest draft ever but he was their third player drafted. Detroits been a team that has traded a bunch of draft picks so they get one shot at a guy in the second or hird and barely used that shot on a dman.
 
nb2928 said:
Top pairing d-men don't grow on trees, there's only a handful of them in the league, and your odds of getting them in the later rounds is less than the 1st round. How many teams out there developed a top-pairing d-man drafted outside the first round since 2000? I can't imagine too many of them. Development does play a roll, but so does luck and potential.
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Chicago - Duncan Keith
Nashville - Shea Weber
Nashville - Roman Josi
Nashville - Mattias Ekholm
Dallas - John Klingberg
Vancouver - Alex Edler
Calgary - Mark Giordano (undrafted)
Minnesota - Jared Spurgeon
Montreal - PK Subban
San Jose - Marc-Edouard Vlasic
Los Angeles - Jake Muzzin
Philadelphia - Shayne Gostisbehere
Colorado - Tyson Barrie
Pittsburgh - Kris Letang
St. Louis - Colton Parayko
 
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I think there's too much focus on top pairing guys in this discussion

whens the last time the Wings have even found a second pairing guy? it's been either bottom pairing types,AHL/Europe lifers after they wash out of the NHL,or outright busts that never even make it at all

whatever though Cholowski's good
 
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Henkka said:
Calder Trophy runner-ups seem to be the best in Red Wings jersey... I hope for that. :)

some Calder Trophy Winners from the past:

83-84 Tom Barrasso (runner up: Steve Yzerman)
90-91 Ed Belfour (runner up: Sergei Fedorov)
91-92 Pavel Bure (runner up: Nicklas Lidström)
02-03 Barret Jackman (runner up: Henrik Zetterberg)
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Lol at Barrett Jackman
 
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Not sure if he’s going to be a top pairing guy, but I thought he was great when they played Dallas. I see him being at least a 3D, which is still crazy good for picking at 20.
 
cg98 said:
Chicago - Duncan Keith
Nashville - Shea Weber
Nashville - Roman Josi
Nashville - Mattias Ekholm
Dallas - John Klingberg
Vancouver - Alex Edler
Calgary - Mark Giordano (undrafted)
Minnesota - Jared Spurgeon
Montreal - PK Subban
San Jose - Marc-Edouard Vlasic
Los Angeles - Jake Muzzin
Philadelphia - Shayne Gostisbehere
Colorado - Tyson Barrie
Pittsburgh - Kris Letang
St. Louis - Colton Parayko
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I'll put a side the argument that some of those names can be debated whether they're truly considered top pairing or not. But you just listed 15 guys that were drafted out of the first round in the past 18 years league wide. That should give you an idea on how hard it is to find top pairing guys in general, and why using Detroit's history is absurd.
 
Christien said:
Debatable. He has over exceeded my expectations for him and he truly looks like he could be a top pairing guy. However I think Zadina the most valuable player U20 for Detroit is Zadina.
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If cholo is a top pairing dman and it seems like he pushing that direction....would that be more valued than a scoring winger? Just wondering, if cholos worth can eventually exceed zadinas with time.
 
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ImNeverWrong said:
If cholo is a top pairing dman and it seems like he pushing that direction....would that be more valued than a scoring winger? Just wondering, if cholos worth can eventually exceed zadinas with time.
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I think Zadina has more hype as a prospect which might make him more valuable in a trade. Cholowki was considered a big reach at the draft and had a so so draft+1 season. If he keeps up his current play for the whole season he might pass Zadina in value but right now I dont think he has enough of a track record.

If I had to choose to only keep one it would be a really hard choice. I might lean Cholowski because D are harder to find than wingers but Zadina has pretty elite potential as well
 
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His offensive instincts and passing are top notch.

I thing he could develop into a 50P guy down the track. Just needs to work on his quickness and strength, both should come.
 
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Henkka said:
Calder Trophy runner-ups seem to be the best in Red Wings jersey... I hope for that. :)

some Calder Trophy Winners from the past:

83-84 Tom Barrasso (runner up: Steve Yzerman)
90-91 Ed Belfour (runner up: Sergei Fedorov)
91-92 Pavel Bure (runner up: Nicklas Lidström)
02-03 Barret Jackman (runner up: Henrik Zetterberg)
Click to expand...

Didn't want to list Jimmy Howard I see... :laugh:

Zetterberg got hosed big time on that one.

Cholowski and Rasmussen continue to make strides.
 
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Now with 12 points in 22 games, 4 goals and 8 assists.
2nd in rookie scoring (among D) only behind Dahlin who has 13 points (2+11) in 25 games.
 
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