LD Aron Kiviharju - TPS, FIN JRS (2024 Draft)

[bebl]

Maybe Finnish hockey is too far up its own ass that developing players who:

a) Don't have amazing size
b) Have strengths besides being uncreative grinders

...has become an alien concept?
It's actually a genuine question on my part.

Creativity and hockey iq is probably biggest strength among finnish players. I don't think Kiviharju is uncreative grinder. He is very good player but he is just so small as defender to be drafted top 5.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

I’m glad that people are starting to realize that although talented, Kivi is flawed and not the profile of a kid you want to select first overall, or even top-10.

Been saying it since last year, happy others are seeing it.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

I’m glad that people are starting to realize that although talented, Kivi is flawed and not the profile of a kid you want to select first overall, or even top-10.

Been saying it since last year, happy others are seeing it.

Haven’t followed this thread in a long while.. has he not progressed as initially thought?

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Haven’t followed this thread in a long while.. has he not progressed as initially thought?

The player he is now, and the player he was at this time last year are rather similar. So yes, in my opinion he hasn’t progressed as hoped

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Creativity and hockey iq is probably biggest strength among finnish players. I don't think Kiviharju is uncreative grinder. He is very good player but he is just so small as defender to be drafted top 5.

Oh I realize that about Kiviharju, I'm talking more about once reaching the professional or near-pro stage, it almost feels like the players stagnate a lot of late. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, or perhaps I find Liiga hockey to be a bit hard to watch these days and it's biasing my perception.

Shame for the topic at hand, I think he's still a first round pick caliber player but this offseason needs him to up his skating considerably. The rest of the stuff can be worked out over time in the pros, but his skating needs to help him unlock his potential.

 

[LaMasquerade]

Interesting to see so much criticism right now.. I though he played pretty well yesterday against Switzerland. Certainly nothing you'd expect from "projected 1OA", but still ok showing for first tournament game.

As has been stated, his skating is nothing special. Very solid on offensive blue line. Sees the passing lines well and is able to calm the play e.g. during PP. Not the strongest shot though.

Now I'm kind of expecting him to go before mid of first round next year (around 10OA maybe). Which would mean very good D, but not franchise level.

 

[just a hockey fan]

It’s the same Finns every time that blast these kids stock thru the roof creating unrealistic expectations. Kiviharju is the same player now as he was 2 years ago. Zero progression

Genuine question but excepting a shitty response. You seem to really hate/dislike anything Finnish, any good reason for it? Because it's pretty sad and weird to get mad or dislike people for simply doing the exact same thing everyone does when the player in question literally does unprecedented things and break records... I've learnt that out every hockey country, it's the Finns who are not allowed to say anything about prospects who clearly deserve recognition and "hype". They can't suggest a possible 1st overall or now even a top 5 pick. They can't even mention a player who literally does things no Finnish prospect has done before because at the slightest drop on form it's time to overreact and hate.

It's unfortunate that there are so many non Finns who enjoy bashing Finnish players. And it's apparently completely fine to shit on them.

Is your solution to ban Finnish fans from being normal fans? What about everyone else, the hobby scouts here or the actual scouts, coaches, analysts/experts who say the same thing or even more positive things about Finnish players? Where's the negativity and shitty attitude towards them?

 

[just a hockey fan]

At the end of the day if he falls because we all know speed is impossible to improve and him being so small at 5'10, some team will be happy picking him later than he should.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

You must have forgotten how hyped Lambert was as a 15/16 year old, sure fire top 3 pick according to the Finns here.

It’s the same Finns every time that blast these kids stock thru the roof creating unrealistic expectations. Kiviharju is the same player now as he was 2 years ago. Zero progression

Savoie and Wright were hyped the exact same way as Lambert. Nothing to do with being Finnish. Players get hyped according to their play at the time, and sometimes the development then turns flat. With many European prospects it's just very hard to figure out when the development has actually stopped since they go from dominationg below CHL level junior leagues to men's leagues where they have a massive strength disadvantage

 

[BB88]

You must have forgotten how hyped Lambert was as a 15/16 year old, sure fire top 3 pick according to the Finns here.

It’s the same Finns every time that blast these kids stock thru the roof creating unrealistic expectations. Kiviharju is the same player now as he was 2 years ago. Zero progression

& what is Lambert currently doing?

 

[bigdog16]

Genuine question but excepting a shitty response. You seem to really hate/dislike anything Finnish, any good reason for it? Because it's pretty sad and weird to get mad or dislike people for simply doing the exact same thing everyone does when the player in question literally does unprecedented things and break records... I've learnt that out every hockey country, it's the Finns who are not allowed to say anything about prospects who clearly deserve recognition and "hype". They can't suggest a possible 1st overall or now even a top 5 pick. They can't even mention a player who literally does things no Finnish prospect has done before because at the slightest drop on form it's time to overreact and hate.

It's unfortunate that there are so many non Finns who enjoy bashing Finnish players. And it's apparently completely fine to shit on them.

Is your solution to ban Finnish fans from being normal fans? What about everyone else, the hobby scouts here or the actual scouts, coaches, analysts/experts who say the same thing or even more positive things about Finnish players? Where's the negativity and shitty attitude towards them?

Because its super annoying when Finns blast it in everyone else’s face and tell everyone else they are wrong and dont know what they are talking about. All you have to do is read earlier in this thread for proof. That guy has unshockingly gone radio silent.

Also the Kakko vs Hughes threads were an absolute treat if anyone remembers those.

& what is Lambert currently doing?

Hes done great shockingly enough in Canada, where Finns told me here that moving to Canada would be the worst thing possible for his development. And hes still not living up to the expectations from when he was 15/16

 

[FinPanda]

Because its super annoying when Finns blast it in everyone else’s face and tell everyone else they are wrong and dont know what they are talking about. All you have to do is read earlier in this thread for proof. That guy has unshockingly gone radio silent.

Also the Kakko vs Hughes threads were an absolute treat if anyone remembers those.


Hes done great shockingly enough in Canada, where Finns told me here that moving to Canada would be the worst thing possible for his development. And hes still not living up to the expectations from when he was 15/16

Its not all of us though so I hope u can see the good posters as well..

 

[bigdog16]

Its not all of us though so I hope u can see the good posters as well..

I do - all the bad posters go silent when they are wrong. There are plenty of good Finnish posters who offer great insight that us over in NA would never know.

 

[Jukurit]

Can we talk about the player instead of Finns this and Finns that blaa blaa blaa.

Helenius looks better than Kiviharju so far.

 

[BB88]

Because its super annoying when Finns blast it in everyone else’s face and tell everyone else they are wrong and dont know what they are talking about. All you have to do is read earlier in this thread for proof. That guy has unshockingly gone radio silent.

Also the Kakko vs Hughes threads were an absolute treat if anyone remembers those.


Hes done great shockingly enough in Canada, where Finns told me here that moving to Canada would be the worst thing possible for his development. And hes still not living up to the expectations from when he was 15/16

By destroying the playoffs?

Alrighty then

 

[bigdog16]

By destroying the playoffs?

Alrighty then

What? You must not have been around here 5 or so years ago

 

[bebl]

Because its super annoying when Finns blast it in everyone else’s face and tell everyone else they are wrong and dont know what they are talking about.

Who blast for them if it's not us? Heiskanen was beast 2 seasons before he was drafted and NA prospect media woke up on him like 2 months before draft. The thing is hockey is very NA centric and if prospect choses to play in NA over EU he has better chance to get drafted high even if he would not developed at all in that season.

And that Kakko and Hughes example is always hilarious to read. People on this boards don't really watch potential, they are just watching how good prospects are now and that's why Kakko was so hyped cause he deserved all that hype among FANS. He was and still is most dominant draft year player i've seen in Finland.

Lambert was also very hyped with Wright and Savoie. There is narrative that Lambert sucks etc but how has Wright and Savoie done on those Disappointment.

Kiviharju's hype leaned too much on "maybe he will grow"

 

[BB88]

What? You must not have been around here 5 or so years ago

& you must not be up to speed

 

[bigdog16]

& you must not be up to speed

Not sure what you are getting at. I was here when Fins were screaming at me that Kakko was way better than Jack Hughes and also when they told me Laine would have an 80 goal rookie season and be the greatest gosl scorer of sll time. Sounds like you are new here and not up to speed

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Not sure what you are getting at. I was here when Fins were screaming at me that Kakko was way better than Jack Hughes and also when they told me Laine would have an 80 goal rookie season and be the greatest gosl scorer of sll time. Sounds like you are new here and not up to speed

In 2019, everyone thought Kakko was more NHL Ready than Hughes.

80 goals... you lose credibility. But yes, Laine was seen as a new Ovechkin early in his career. When he saw that he would not be able to reproduce the same game, he knew how to evolve.

The Kiviharju hype was deserved. From age 10 to 16, he was ahead of the rest.

 

[Shocker]

In 2019, everyone thought Kakko was more NHL Ready than Hughes.

80 goals... you lose credibility. But yes, Laine was seen as a new Ovechkin early in his career. When he saw that he would not be able to reproduce the same game, he knew how to evolve.

The Kiviharju hype was deserved. From age 10 to 16, he was ahead of the rest.

He's still mad about few unhinged Laine fans that even the finns laughed at.

Best to just ignore him.

 

[bigdog16]

He's still mad about few unhinged Laine fans that even the finns laughed at.

Best to just ignore him.

Moreso the Kakko fans like ijuka but go on

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Not Finnish at all for me, nor American, which is not a national affair for me. Kakko and Laine were selected 2 indisputably. Like everyone else, I wondered if they could be selected #1. The same way I thought about the same for Michkov and Fantilli. Having Kiviharju 1 last year on 2024 forecasts was something normal.

 

[VictorLustig]

In 2019, everyone thought Kakko was more NHL Ready than Hughes.

80 goals... you lose credibility. But yes, Laine was seen as a new Ovechkin early in his career. When he saw that he would not be able to reproduce the same game, he knew how to evolve.

The Kiviharju hype was deserved. From age 10 to 16, he was ahead of the rest.

No. Never hype a 10-16 year old. Most of them will become nothing.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

No. Never hype a 10-16 year old. Most of them will become nothing.

Quite the contrary. Hockey talents are revealed very early and there is a relative permanence. This is why there is such a presence of sons of professionals who were born with a cross in their hands and skates on their feet.

Moreover, Kiviharju is far from nothing. It's just a little less dominant now than it was last year.

Listening to people, he became useless. Wake up. He plays in Liiga at U17. Eiserman, Celebrini, Catton are not having fun in this tournament either.