LD Aron Kiviharju - TPS, FIN JRS (2024 Draft)

[ijuka]

Also - ijuka - weird that you were following an 11 year old. Thats really weird.

It puzzles me why you're confused about people taking things personally when you yourself constantly make it personal. Still, let me tell you about it since you yourself brought it up.

Every year, I scan through Finnish junior leagues for well-performing underagers who I've not seen before. Double underagers generally, but 1 age group underagers who do very well will do as well. If I find one, I try and watch one game and decide if they're worth paying attention to. Most years, I don't find anyone.

For Kiviharju, it was D2 juniors(Finnish u13 league) - double underager defenseman. 14 games, 47 points - second on team has 38 points. League lead was 52 points in 25 games. Now, even double underagers at that level, very very rare. There have been a couple though, like Frans Karjalahti more recently. But none have lead their team in scoring. And as a defenseman? See, even leading a team in scoring as a defenseman at all is extremely rare, no matter the age, no matter the age group. Even if it's the best player on the team by a good margin. It's not like a forward, at least in Finnish hockey. You practically never see such a thing. But I never follow players off scoring alone, it requires what we call "eye test". So I look at the games he's played.

This, the first shift of the first game I ever watch, right off the first faceoff at the game's start(#11):


How common would you say it is being able to do that at 10 against players 2 years older? Well I can tell you, at least in Finland, it is not. Like I've said, most "eye tests" amount to nothing.

So that's when I decided to start following him.

 

[ijuka]

It's been since 2016 that Kiviharju has been well ahead of the other players in the 2024 class.

I never thought for one second that Raty was a number one. I always saw him as a top 15. Thing he was. His fall in the 2nd lap was a mistake.

Look at this, from WSI u12 15-16:

Some familiar names on there.

 

[bigdog16]

It puzzles me why you're confused about people taking things personally when you yourself constantly make it personal. Still, let me tell you about it since you yourself brought it up.

Every year, I scan through Finnish junior leagues for well-performing underagers who I've not seen before. Double underagers generally, but 1 age group underagers who do very well will do as well. If I find one, I try and watch one game and decide if they're worth paying attention to. Most years, I don't find anyone.

For Kiviharju, it was D2 juniors(Finnish u13 league) - double underager defenseman. 14 games, 47 points - second on team has 38 points. League lead was 52 points in 25 games. Now, even double underagers at that level, very very rare. There have been a couple though, like Frans Karjalahti more recently. But none have lead their team in scoring. And as a defenseman? See, even leading a team in scoring as a defenseman at all is extremely rare, no matter the age, no matter the age group. Even if it's the best player on the team by a good margin. It's not like a forward, at least in Finnish hockey. You practically never see such a thing. But I never follow players off scoring alone, it requires what we call "eye test". So I look at the games he's played.

This, the first shift of the first game I ever watch, right off the first faceoff at the game's start(#11):


How common would you say it is being able to do that at 10 against players 2 years older? Well I can tell you, at least in Finland, it is not. Like I've said, most "eye tests" amount to nothing.

So that's when I decided to start following him.

I will repeat for the hundreth time that Kiviharju is at the top of his class, theres zero debate there he is legit. But you are making outrageous claims saying he will be the best skating dman in the NHL easily, next Karlsson in his prime, etc.

You did the same thing with Kakko. My point is it gets old. Its at the point now where if the kid isn’t a top 3 dman in the league he is a failure

 

[ijuka]

Historiallista kautta pelaava Aron Kiviharju on suomalaisen jääkiekon seuraava superlupaus - EP Rinkside FI

U20 SM-sarjassa 16-vuotiaana dominoinut Aron Kiviharju on tällä hetkellä maailman lupaavin 2006-syntynyt puolustaja.

fi.eprinkside.com

Lassi Alanen wrote a pretty good EP Rinkside article on Kiviharju where he went into quite a bit of detail. Maybe Google Translate will have a passable result, who knows. The most interesting part about it are probably the three videos included, especially the transition one because it's probably the one thing he's best at and it's not something that would get talked about that much since it's a bit "boring" and doesn't make for great highlights. But see this:

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I will repeat for the hundreth time that Kiviharju is at the top of his class, theres zero debate there he is legit. But you are making outrageous claims saying he will be the best skating dman in the NHL easily, next Karlsson in his prime, etc.

You did the same thing with Kakko. My point is it gets old. Its at the point now where if the kid isn’t a top 3 dman in the league he is a failure

He has the ability to revolutionize the position of defender. He's a real quarterback. Obviously only elite players can aspire to play this profile of defender.

With the level he currently is, if he had been born in 2004, he would already have been selected in the second round.

His level is very much higher than that of Kakko. At his age, Kakko dominated in U18 and started in U20. Kiviharju is already too strong to play in U18 and is the best defender in U20. Kiviharju is clearly a year ahead of Kakko.

He's a genius. His potential compares to that of Lidstrom.

I know that many criticize Finnish supporters for forcing to promote the first Finnish as the No. 1 draft pick.

But Kiviharju is the right person. In 2 years, this player should be one of Liiga's best defenders.

His career is incomparable with Lambert, Raty, Lundell, Kakko, Heiskanen or Juolevi.

He is a generational defender. More impressive than Lafrenière, Power or Wright. He is comparable with Hughes or Bedard.

Each year he confirms by dominating against players who are 4 years older than him. And the craziest thing is that his progress was slowed down by the Covid and an injury last year.

 

[thomast]

I don't understand why Finns take everything as a personal attack against them.

This is pretty low and sign of extreme one dimensional thinking. Not that i agree with ijuka, because i don’t. Heiskanen is the better skater of the two at same age. Kiviharju is a lot more dynamic and his offensive confidence is on a different level. I believe that is biggest hole in Miro’s game. Miro was the better player defensively at same age. Kiviharju is much better prospect at same age, but anything can happen in 2 years.

About Kakko, there is no crystal ball for anyone. To me Kakko was the most dominant draft eligible player i’ve ever seen in Finland by good margin. After WJC’s his dominance in liiga was just ridiculous. Even Barkov, Rantanen or Laine at their best never touched that level of dominance. His goal scoring pace over last +30 games was about the pace of top 3 highest goal scoring season ever in Liiga including high scoring era’s as a 17 year old draft eligible player.

Talent was there for sure and he might still become pretty good top 6 foward, but he have been major disappointment so far.

Hard to rank Kiviharju against his peers without clear picture of his competition and if i had to bet between Kiviharju going #1 vs the field, it would be stupid not to bet on the field.

 

[bigdog16]

He has the ability to revolutionize the position of defender. He's a real quarterback. Obviously only elite players can aspire to play this profile of defender.

With the level he currently is, if he had been born in 2004, he would already have been selected in the second round.

His level is very much higher than that of Kakko. At his age, Kakko dominated in U18 and started in U20. Kiviharju is already too strong to play in U18 and is the best defender in U20. Kiviharju is clearly a year ahead of Kakko.

He's a genius. His potential compares to that of Lidstrom.

I know that many criticize Finnish supporters for forcing to promote the first Finnish as the No. 1 draft pick.

But Kiviharju is the right person. In 2 years, this player should be one of Liiga's best defenders.

His career is incomparable with Lambert, Raty, Lundell, Kakko, Heiskanen or Juolevi.

He is a generational defender. More impressive than Lafrenière, Power or Wright. He is comparable with Hughes or Bedard.

Each year he confirms by dominating against players who are 4 years older than him. And the craziest thing is that his progress was slowed down by the Covid and an injury last year.

So you are telling us he will be the greatest defenseman in the history of the game.

…what could go wrong?

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

So you are telling us he will be the greatest defenseman in the history of the game.

…what could go wrong?

Best European U16 prospect in history as a defender.

 

[bigdog16]

Best European U16 prospect in history as a defender.

Never said he wasn’t. The claims being thrown around here are incredible though. At this point anything less than a perennial Norris winner is a disappointment…

 

[ponder]

His Birthdate is January 25. 2006 - Age 11. Height: 5'1", Weight: 105 lbs

He played in the D2(u13) AAA(highest level) league this season as his team's alternative captain. His team won the title.

Also, while he didn't win the scoring title(Several players played on two teams and had nearly twice the matches played as a result), he had the highest PPG in the entire league, as a double underager defenseman.

Scoring:

D2 AAA Q: 19+28=47 in 14 games played

D2 AAA: 8+28=36 in 9 games played

D2 AAA Finals: 1+2=3 in 1 game played



In my opinion, if a 11-year-old defenseman can possibly be generational, this is it. He's going to be the next Erik Karlsson.

I haven't really seen 11-year-old hockey all that much, but this to me is far more impressive than Iguchi for instance, who is the only 11-year-old phenomenon that really came to mind. Laine for instance hadn't even switched to playing F full time at this age. It's unbelievable how good all of his attributes are for his age, and double underaging at that age isn't exactly common even for superb talents(A far more common route is to single underage until like 14 or 15). And leading the league in PPG by a large margin as a defenseman is absurd. While it's a u13 league, it still is the strongest such league in Finland.



EDIT:

Shift-by-shift / extended highlights of a single match, 9 minutes:


I also have a couple of clips of the 2016-2017 season here. For identification, LHD Defenseman with #11 and the A(But it should be obvious who he is):

I gotta say, super impressive call. There’s gonna be a lot of doubters when you’re this high on an 11 year old, but 4.5 years later, it’s looking like you had every reason to be. Kiviharju is damn impressive, from the little I’ve seen an offensive (and transition) wizard with insane hockey IQ. Looks like he’s got a strong shot to go 1OA, which is obviously quite rare for dmen.

 

[wetcoast]

It's been since 2016 that Kiviharju has been well ahead of the other players in the 2024 class.

I never thought for one second that Raty was a number one. I always saw him as a top 15. Thing he was. His fall in the 2nd lap was a mistake.

Sure we can say that the fall of Raty was a mistake now but he simply looked horrible in his draft year.

 

[thomast]

Interesting fact, his father was a key player in finnish dynasty team that won 3 titles. After that he was a hockey coach for several years. Right now he is a scout for Coyotes. There is perfect enviroment for Aron to refine his game for the NHL.

 

[wetcoast]

Look at this, from WSI u12 15-16:

View attachment 521722

Some familiar names on there.

And some really unfamiliar ones as well.

Frankly I follow these boards alot and there are a handful of guys I have never even heard of.

The previous u-12s was really way more of a miss and the next one is looking more promising but also with some guys who will just drop off.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Sure we can say that the fall of Raty was a mistake now but he simply looked horrible in his draft year.

I had him 5th 1 year before his draft and 15th during his draft year.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Never said he wasn’t. The claims being thrown around here are incredible though. At this point anything less than a perennial Norris winner is a disappointment…

Yes clearly. Normally he should establish himself as the best defender born in the 2000s.

If he makes a career like Ekblad it will be disappointing compared to what he promises.

 

[wetcoast]

I had him 5th 1 year before his draft and 15th during his draft year.

Fair enough but most NHL GMs disagreed with you there.

Look I was high on Raty after the 19 summer Hlinka Cup but between then and draft day he simply didn't look like a first rounder at all even to me who had been high on him.

The NYI training camp and this season looks like a complete turnaround but let's wait and see how it goes.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Fair enough but most NHL GMs disagreed with you there.

Look I was high on Raty after the 19 summer Hlinka Cup but between then and draft day he simply didn't look like a first rounder at all even to me who had been high on him.

The NYI training camp and this season looks like a complete turnaround but let's wait and see how it goes.

Personally, I have the impression that Raty was the victim of a bashing which presented him as a lazy and selfish player unable to play in Senior which had a domino effect. Kind of like Kaliyev. A reporter started a rumor that he was 2 years older and he was shot.

Raty's season last year wasn't nearly as bad as people were saying. No worse than Lambert's this year.

 

[wetcoast]

Personally, I have the impression that Raty was the victim of a bashing which presented him as a lazy and selfish player unable to play in Senior which had a domino effect. Kind of like Kaliyev. A reporter started a rumor that he was 2 years older and he was shot.

Raty's season last year wasn't nearly as bad as people were saying. No worse than Lambert's this year.

Lambert is also having a poor season but is a much better skater than Raty.

Kaliyev also produced and also was never a super high prospect but I get your point about him.

 

[thomast]

3 points in 3 playoff games. Leads his team in scoring. Should be lock for U18 WC team.

 

[JJTT]

Named to the final U18 roster.

 

[FinPanda]

TPS:n 16-vuotias huippulupaus Aron Kiviharju tekee historiaa MM-kisoissa

Toisen polven kiekkoilija Aron Kiviharju pelaa alle 18-vuotiaiden MM-kisoissa kaksi vuotta alaikäisenä.

www.iltalehti.fi

Nice interview about Kiviharju.

Some points:
- His goal before the season wasn't to make the U18 team, it would be just nice to play there
- During the season U18 tournament became more of a goal
- His dad doesn't give many advices to him, but they do talk about hockey
- Fredrik Norrena (his U20 coach) says that he is an exceptional talent with high hockey IQ and puck skills, his understanding of the game is world class
- He can also defend well.
- He is very raw physically but that makes sense since he is still very young, it'll come with time since hasn't even started full strenght training yet as his body is not ready for it yet
- His goal career goals are first to make TPS's Liiga team and play well there and then make the NHL "at any cost"
- YHis idols are Makar, Hedman and Fox, out of former players his idol is Petteri Nummelin
- He doesn't tale pressure playing in the U18 tournament, says he goes there to enjoy the game and giving 110% for the team
- Kiviharju is 1st Finnish players to make the U18 team as an U16 player
- He believes Finland can win gold in the tournament
- He has done quite well and school and does training 2 times a day.
- His hobbies are golf, disc golf and padel

Sounds like a guy with excellent work ethic and passion to be the best.

 

[thomast]

TPS:n 16-vuotias huippulupaus Aron Kiviharju tekee historiaa MM-kisoissa

Toisen polven kiekkoilija Aron Kiviharju pelaa alle 18-vuotiaiden MM-kisoissa kaksi vuotta alaikäisenä.

www.iltalehti.fi

Nice interview about Kiviharju.

Some points:
- His goal before the season wasn't to make the U18 team, it would be just nice to play there
- During the season U18 tournament became more of a goal
- His dad doesn't give many advices to him, but they do talk about hockey
- Fredrik Norrena (his U20 coach) says that he is an exceptional talent with high hockey IQ and puck skills, his understanding of the game is world class
- He can also defend well.
- He is very raw physically but that makes sense since he is still very young, it'll come with time since hasn't even started full strenght training yet as his body is not ready for it yet
- His goal career goals are first to make TPS's Liiga team and play well there and then make the NHL "at any cost"
- YHis idols are Makar, Hedman and Fox, out of former players his idol is Petteri Nummelin
- He doesn't tale pressure playing in the U18 tournament, says he goes there to enjoy the game and giving 110% for the team
- Kiviharju is 1st Finnish players to make the U18 team as an U16 player
- He believes Finland can win gold in the tournament
- He has done quite well and school and does training 2 times a day.
- His hobbies are gold, disc golf and padel

Sounds like a guy with excellent work ethic and passion to be the best.

Norrena especially praised his defensive game. He plays with a long stick and he only remembers one GA after december where Kiviharju anticipated the play wrong, despite of having 2nd most ice time on his team.

How he paces the game is exceptional.

 

[FinPanda]

Norrena especially praised his defensive game. He plays with a long stick and he only remembers one GA after december where Kiviharju anticipated the play wrong, despite of having 2nd most ice time in his team.

How he paces the game is exceptional.

Thanks, I had trouble trying to translate that myself.

 

[David OSullivan]

It worries me that one of his hobbies is gold. Could be a nightmare in contract negotiations.

 

[ijuka]

Norrena especially praised his defensive game. He plays with a long stick and he only remembers one GA after december where Kiviharju anticipated the play wrong, despite of having 2nd most ice time on his team.

How he paces the game is exceptional.

Good thing that another coach of his concentrates on the defensive game - the narrative that he's some one-way offensive defenseman really needs to be dumped.

It's also true that he plays with a longer stick, I've not really thought about that before but that definitely is the case. Perhaps that's why he stickhandles the way he does.

It worries me that one of his hobbies is gold. Could be a nightmare in contract negotiations.

Golf... And I'm pretty sure that most NHL players have golf as a hobby.