OneSniffTwoSniff
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Holy shit this kids stats are stupid good for his age, is he really that special of a player? Can he play in the La Liiga next season already?
LD Aron Kiviharju - TPS, FIN JRS (2024 Draft)
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He had 3 assists today. With 7 goals and 19 assists for 26 points in 31 games, he becomes the best-scoring u-16 defenseman in Finnish u-20 league history, beating Mikko Kokkonen who had 6 goals and 20 assists, also for 26 points(Beating him because of having more goals).
If he plays in WJC-u18 this spring you could see for yourself. And yes, I'd expect him to play Liiga next season.
3 assists today, 31 points in 35 games.
Heads up player, smart, creative, and made good decisions. He wasn't flashy, made smart plays, especially as the QB on the PP he was generating a ton. Left shot on right side. Spotted a creative behind the net bank pass from the right wall in the OZ while under pressure, smart shot choices that were getting through traffic, finds dangerous opportunities then acts accordingly. Active and effective stick checking, good reads/decisions on the rush defensively, really tight gap through the neutral zone with or without puck he was on his man with quick feet, effortless skater. Just showed solid awareness no matter the situation. Obviously isn't physically mature, but he didn't shy away from playing along the boards in his zone, or tying up guys/getting inside position at the netfront. Small sample size, but kid looks really effective at this level.
Impressive stuff from such a young guy. Best Finnish D in a while and he just turned 16. Surely he'll get some Liiga action next season and then by his draft year who knows what he could become.
Heads up player, smart, creative, and made good decisions. He wasn't flashy, made smart plays, especially as the QB on the PP he was generating a ton. Left shot on right side. Spotted a creative behind the net bank pass from the right wall in the OZ while under pressure, smart shot choices that were getting through traffic, finds dangerous opportunities then acts accordingly. Active and effective stick checking, good reads/decisions on the rush defensively, really tight gap through the neutral zone with or without puck he was on his man with quick feet, effortless skater. Just showed solid awareness no matter the situation. Obviously isn't physically mature, but he didn't shy away from playing along the boards in his zone, or tying up guys/getting inside position at the netfront. Small sample size, but kid looks really effective at this level.
Impressive stuff from such a young guy. Best Finnish D in a while and he just turned 16. Surely he'll get some Liiga action next season and then by his draft year who knows what he could become.
Vasilevskiy
The cat will be back
Stewie Griffin
What the deuce
Maybe at this age. He's on track to do it, but let's see where he gets drafted in a few years and if its higher than #3 (Heiskanen)
karhukissa
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Quite damn impressive that despite all of the injuries and setbacks, his development hasn't just been stable, it has accelerated. Probably the most exciting prospect since Heiskanen (Not just D prospect, overall)
Dirtyf1ghter
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Since Heiskanen? At the same age, Heiskanen scored 20 points in 35 games in the u-18 league. Kiviharju outscored Heiskanen by 10 points... in the u-20 league. They're not even comparable, Kiviharju is a far better prospect. Heiskanen's main strength is skating and Kiviharju even is a better skater than him.
#1 Overall without competition. Whoever there is for contention(Cole Eiserman?) needs to be REALLY good to compete. And if he was REALLY good enough, there would be much more hype and talk of him. Same with any other 2024.
The thing with Kiviharju even is that he's not an "offensive defenseman" and doesn't play "offense first". Usually he's the first one back and picks his spots carefully, generally playing to minimize risks. Yet he still scores at such a rate.
Impressive that you got such an accurate image of him off just one game, Especially the part about "not being flashy" is something I feel people get wrong, because he plays a very boring and effective style. He might attempt a move once or twice a game. Of course, that probably is partially because it's so difficult playing as a quadruple underager at the u-20 level. But that somehow is a consistent misconception with him, so it's impressive you got it right.
One thing I'd have added is the work on transition, his success rate for transitioning out of the zone, dealing with forecheck and getting the puck to a forward in good position is very high, as are zone entries on PP. Seems players don't even properly try to forecheck against him because he beats everyone in the 1v1 so he just gets to bring the puck in peace. From what I've seen, his success rate in such 1v1s is well above 95%.
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karhukissa
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I wasn't comparing Kiviharju to Heiskanen when they were same age, i was talking that he is just overall most exciting prospect since Miro. In fact i wasn't comparing them at all.
And before i put him ahead of Heiskanen (at any age pre-draft) i need to see how he does in Liiga. That said, i have no doubts that he wouldn't do well.
Hostile Offer
Artist formerly known as Eagle Peninsula
Was Heiskanen really that highly thought of anyway before the last few months before getting drafted? I haven't seen Kiviharju play but if he can skate better than Heiskanen when he's fully developed then he's going to be elite and then some. I just don't think it's really that fair to Heiskanen to compare what he did at age 16 to Kiviharju, development isn't linear. But I don't recall any other Finnish D prospect being as highly touted as Kiviharju at this stage.
I'm saying he's definitely much more exciting a prospect than Heiskanen.
Heiskanen wasn't super highly touted until the draft year. However, he had a relatively strong Liiga season and also a strong performance at WJC-u18 which raised his stocks a great deal.
In terms of skating technique and ability I think that Kiviharju is better than Heiskanen, the only thing that remains to be seen if he manages to get similar speed, which is largely tied to development and training. The technique, however, is best I've ever seen in Finland, hands are infinitely better and he's a much more creative player. I feel like Heiskanen is a pretty one-note skater in comparison to Kiviharju who has a seemingly endless bag of tricks.
OneSniffTwoSniff
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This kids draft is still 2 years away I think it's smart to stay reasonable with the hype, who knows if he even gets drafted by then.
Heiskanen was very good in his draft year. He is a defensman who is not that productive on offensive side, so you need to watch the games to understand why he is so good. If you are not playing in NA you are not gonna be hyped if you don't score a lot. Also IFK fans are not the guys who run to hfboards after every scored goal "did you see that, he is gonna be Bobby Orr" unlike some of the other fans in Finland. Heiskanen and Lundell are great examples of that.
Just to make it clear: you think he is gonna be best skating d-man in the whole game?
Do you think he is gonna gain height anymore?
OneSniffTwoSniff
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Stewie Griffin
What the deuce
I'm only re-quoting the comments you made in regards to my comment;
He's definitely the favourite for #1 but this is still 3 drafts away. Tanner Howe is the only CHL player eligible in the 2024 who I think has even played for his club as of this time, but he is having a great season.
We will know more in 2 years when it's their draft season, and Kiviharju gets some seasoning in Liiga.
Dirtyf1ghter
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Even before North American players play in the junior leagues we can get an idea.
There is no generational talent in the bantam categories for this promo. The best seem to be Eiserman, Celebrini.
Kiviharju already dominates in U20. Had he been born two years earlier for the same level of performance, he would be an easily selected player in the 2022 top 50.
Rasmus Dahlin at his age had not done so much.
He never ceased to impress and then to confirm.
It will take exceptional talent to overtake Kiviharju as No. 1, but I honestly don't see who.
There is no generational talent in the bantam categories for this promo. The best seem to be Eiserman, Celebrini.
Kiviharju already dominates in U20. Had he been born two years earlier for the same level of performance, he would be an easily selected player in the 2022 top 50.
Rasmus Dahlin at his age had not done so much.
He never ceased to impress and then to confirm.
It will take exceptional talent to overtake Kiviharju as No. 1, but I honestly don't see who.
OneSniffTwoSniff
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Sigh.... We are still 2 years away from that draft. No question Kiviharja is the biggest name thus far, however I think you need to calm down with the hype.
Remember when aatuu raty was the sure fire #1 pick?
karhukissa
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Well i trust your evaluation. I've only seen him couple of times with national team. But since he's better skater than Miro was in his age and more dominant player, i definetly need to follow U20 SM games.
And it may turn out he should have been picked #1. In any event there was no apparent outstanding prospect in that draft. But there may turn out to be some. Probably guys that missed playing time due to Covid.
karhukissa
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Yup, it's still early. But if prospect is the best skater of his draft class (in this case Heiskanen level/even above) and has even decent IQ, likelihood of him being a bust or dropping very low in the ranks, is significantly lower than say Räty or Puljujärvi.
For the modern day d-man it's all about skating ability and hockey IQ. Heiskanen for example was NHL ready since day one, because of his skating. And we don't even need to talk about Makar. But it's still early.
SantosHalper
Get off my lawn
Oops, careful there it's a very noble sounding name. Kiviharja = Stonebrush, Kiviharju= Stoneridge. His dad's nickname was Stouni = Stone, that's probably Aron's nickname too.
But you're right about the hype, let's wait and see at least until the U18 WJC tournament.
Vasilevskiy
The cat will be back
Raty was never a sure fire #1 pick, he was talked as a possible #1.
Kiviharju right now is easily a better prospect than Raty was at same age
OneSniffTwoSniff
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There were talks about him on this board of him being the clear cut #1 draft pick several years before the draft.
He wasn't even a surefire first overall pick and I wasn't even that high on Aatu Räty at the time(Although he's looking good now). Actually, Kiviharju as a defenseman scored better as d-2 than Aatu Räty as d-1 in Finnish u-20s.
I created this thread 5 years ago so 2 years really is nothing. And my predictions are looking pretty good right now, that I made when I watched him when he was 10 years old. What will 2 years change? He got past the largest concern for me, which was that he might have ended up being 5'6".
For whatever reason Kiviharju's never looked like he's trying in national games, both the WSI tournaments as well as the u-16s. I wonder if u-18 WJCs will have him look like he tries. He competes and skates much harder with TPS. Still performs, of course, but the difference's clear.
My point is that I think that he's so good that for a player to beat him they should be an exceptional status level player, or at the very least very close to it - There's been very little hype for any 2024 players. They'd need to have Connor Bedard levels of hype and then it might be close - none on that level. That's why I think there's no contest. If Bedard was in his draft class then I'd take a wait and see approach on that. There's Cole Eiserman or something and I really don't see it.
Yeah, I think he'll be the best-skating defenseman in NHL. I've not seen anyone able to use skating the way he can since Erik Karlsson(prime Karlsson). So multi-faceted and so shifty and tricky. Sometimes I would see a forechecker approach and he'll make some very small move, maybe start going one way and instantly go the other way instead and the forechecker will fly right past him without even touching him. So good at such fakes, and then add the actual explosive first step. Another thing is that he's very good at backwards skating and has such a beautiful technique for it as well.
No idea about height but at 5'10" he doesn't really need to gain any anyway.
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