LD Aron Kiviharju - TPS, FIN JRS (2024 Draft)

[bigdog16]

He is a better prospect than Miro hands down, but he isn't as close to as good of a skater as Miro. Kiviharju biggest weakness is his skating. He has that short choppy stride. And to say he will be the best skating defenseman in the NHL is utterly ridiculous. Quinn Hughes was a better skater at the same age than Kiviharju is now.

 

[ijuka]

He is a better prospect than Miro hands down, but he isn't as close to as good of a skater as Miro. Kiviharju biggest weakness is his skating. He has that short choppy stride. And to say he will be the best skating defenseman in the NHL is utterly ridiculous. Quinn Hughes was a better skater at the same age than Kiviharju is now.

That's one terrible assessment. It's literally his biggest strength.

For example this video part from 51s:




Really have no idea how you can watch him and come to the conclusion you did.

 

[bigdog16]

That's one terrible assessment. It's literally his biggest strength.

For example this video part from 51s:




Really have no idea how you can watch him and come to the conclusion you did.

No need to get super defensive. That video is him skating around flat footed forecheckers. You’re the same one who told me Kakko would score 90 points in his rookie season and would undoubtedly be better than Jack Hughes, lets not act like there isnt a bit of bias.

Kiviharju is a top end prospect, but claiming he will be the best skating dman in the NHL and that he is the second coming of God is crazy talk. He is 16. A lot can change, other players get better, other players stay stagnant. Development isnt linear.

 

[Akrapovince]

No need to get super defensive. That video is him skating around flat footed forecheckers. You’re the same one who told me Kakko would score 90 points in his rookie season and would undoubtedly be better than Jack Hughes, lets not act like there isnt a bit of bias.

Kiviharju is a top end prospect, but claiming he will be the best skating dman in the NHL and that he is the second coming of God is crazy talk. He is 16. A lot can change, other players get better, other players stay stagnant. Development isnt linear.

Can you explain this to me?

How come whenever I watch the U18s it looks like every single kid is a McDavid out there? Do you find it similar?

They’re all so fast lol

 

[ijuka]

No need to get super defensive. That video is him skating around flat footed forecheckers. You’re the same one who told me Kakko would score 90 points in his rookie season and would undoubtedly be better than Jack Hughes, lets not act like there isnt a bit of bias.

Kiviharju is a top end prospect, but claiming he will be the best skating dman in the NHL and that he is the second coming of God is crazy talk. He is 16. A lot can change, other players get better, other players stay stagnant. Development isnt linear.

I'm talking about the words being spoken, not the freaking video clip.

You just said that an elite skater is a bad skater. Pointing out that you're wrong is not "getting defensive". Next you go into ad hominem. Then strawmen.

You just are wrong, sorry to say. I decided I'd rather quote opinions instead of giving my own simply because I knew you'd just go into ad hominems and falsehoods if I tried making my own points. For example, I think his stride's very strong and the opposite of a "short, choppy stride". Seen him catch up to breakaway attempts starting from a pretty bad position with it.


Now, on the video clip(which was not why I linked the video). It's from Camp Pohjola, with Finland's u16 national team candidates. They're pretty good players. It's not some AA level hobbyist hockey. Isn't it interesting how everyone always seems to be flat footed around him? Maybe he has a talent for mind control, who knows.

 

[Rengorlex]

I'm talking about the words being spoken, not the freaking video clip.

You just said that an elite skater is a bad skater. Pointing out that you're wrong is not "getting defensive". Next you go into ad hominem. Then strawmen.

You just are wrong, sorry to say. I decided I'd rather quote opinions instead of giving my own simply because I knew you'd just go into ad hominems and falsehoods if I tried making my own points. For example, I think his stride's very strong and the opposite of a "short, choppy stride". Seen him catch up to breakaway attempts starting from a pretty bad position with it.


Now, on the video clip(which was not why I linked the video). It's from Camp Pohjola, with Finland's u16 national team candidates. They're pretty good players. It's not some AA level hobbyist hockey. Isn't it interesting how everyone always seems to be flat footed around him? Maybe he has a talent for mind control, who knows.

The video compares him to Nick Leddy, which is a far cry from "the best skating defenceman in the NHL". Maybe he becomes that, but his skating doesn't look that spectacular to me. Great prospect though for sure.

With that hype I'd expect things like from Makar that just blow you away:

 

[ijuka]

The video compares him to Nick Leddy, which is a far cry from "the best skating defenceman in the NHL". Maybe he becomes that, but his skating doesn't look that spectacular to me. Great prospect though for sure.

With that hype I'd expect things like from Makar that just blow you away:

Those were presented as an argument against him being a bad skater or it being his biggest weakness. Him becoming the best skating defenseman in NHL is my personal opinion. I thought that would have been clear - after all, neither the tweet nor the video said anything like it. It's based on what I've seen myself.

In that video you linked, Makar is over 4 years older than Kiviharju is right now. I can't build a time machine and record a video of Kiviharju in 2026, surely you realize that. When Makar was Kiviharju's age(draft-2) he was playing with Calgary Flames u18 AAA in AMHL. I can't find any highlight reels from then. I'll say though, looking at the 2017 highlight reel of Makar's pre-draft, it's not that crazy in terms of skating. Still 2 years older than Kiviharju on there, too. They have pretty significant play style differences, too.


WJC-u18 would be a good opportunity to see him this April, it'll be in a month and against strong competition.
Next season he should be playing Liiga and there surely will be much more material to watch of him. Liiga currently requires pretty strong skating. At least if you want to do well.

 

[bigdog16]

I'm talking about the words being spoken, not the freaking video clip.

You just said that an elite skater is a bad skater. Pointing out that you're wrong is not "getting defensive". Next you go into ad hominem. Then strawmen.

You just are wrong, sorry to say. I decided I'd rather quote opinions instead of giving my own simply because I knew you'd just go into ad hominems and falsehoods if I tried making my own points. For example, I think his stride's very strong and the opposite of a "short, choppy stride". Seen him catch up to breakaway attempts starting from a pretty bad position with it.


Now, on the video clip(which was not why I linked the video). It's from Camp Pohjola, with Finland's u16 national team candidates. They're pretty good players. It's not some AA level hobbyist hockey. Isn't it interesting how everyone always seems to be flat footed around him? Maybe he has a talent for mind control, who knows.

Show me where I said he was a bad skater? His edges are fantastic but I don’t think he is all that explosive by any means. I’m wrong, because you say so? Just like you told me I was wrong about Kakko vs Hughes? So far history has shown that you have never been right vs me.

Listen he is good and a potential higb first rounder. But your bias is exactly the reason these young kids get to the NHL and are immediately labelled busts because of the lofty expectations Europeans put on them - most recently Kakko, Laine, Dahlin

 

[OneSniffTwoSniff]

Show me where I said he was a bad skater? His edges are fantastic but I don’t think he is all that explosive by any means. I’m wrong, because you say so? Just like you told me I was wrong about Kakko vs Hughes? So far history has shown that you have never been right vs me.

Listen he is good and a potential higb first rounder. But your bias is exactly the reason these young kids get to the NHL and are immediately labelled busts because of the lofty expectations Europeans put on them - most recently Kakko, Laine, Dahlin

Yup it's all about hyping up the current "wonderkid" and eventually when the player makes the NHL and doesn't score at a ppg pace right away, the hype posters suddenly go quiet lol.

Kakko is the ultimate example of this, there were literally Finnish posters here claiming that he would make a tremendous impact straight away, and be the better prospect than Jack Hughes lmao.

 

[FinPanda]

I mean I don't see a lot of talk about him in general, so one guys opinions is not all Finns opinion. He is the most promising D prospect out of Finland at his age, but we will see during the next few years how he develops. He may be better than Heiskanen, but he could also be a new Ristolainen.

 

[ijuka]

Show me where I said he was a bad skater? His edges are fantastic but I don’t think he is all that explosive by any means. I’m wrong, because you say so? Just like you told me I was wrong about Kakko vs Hughes? So far history has shown that you have never been right vs me.

Listen he is good and a potential higb first rounder. But your bias is exactly the reason these young kids get to the NHL and are immediately labelled busts because of the lofty expectations Europeans put on them - most recently Kakko, Laine, Dahlin

Kiviharju's different from every other Finnish prospect, comparing him to Kakko for example is ridiculous. The talent level's not even comparable. At Kiviharju's age Kakko was still playing u-18s.

I was actually at the hall watching the playoff game tonight since it was in my hometown. TPS wins 3-2, Kiviharju on ice for every goal for, none against, 2 assists and +2. He got benched for Jimi Suomi for the last few minutes while they were defending the lead, though. I don't get why. There were about 3 other defensemen I'd have benched ahead of him but oh well.

One thing that stands out is how quickly he makes good plays, doesn't need a ton of time to think with the puck. In comparison to Suomi, much less risky and ambitious, more reliable passing. Didn't do a single rush with the puck where he holds it for a long time like Suomi seems to constantly do and circle around(Kiviharju usually gives the puck up after a second or two) and Kiviharju also constantly stayed back as the lowest defenseman, but still Kiviharju was far more effective offensively.

 

[bigdog16]

Kiviharju's different from every other Finnish prospect, comparing him to Kakko for example is ridiculous. The talent level's not even comparable. At Kiviharju's age Kakko was still playing u-18s.

I was actually at the hall watching the playoff game tonight since it was in my hometown. TPS wins 3-2, Kiviharju on ice for every goal for, none against, 2 assists and +2. He got benched for Jimi Suomi for the last few minutes while they were defending the lead, though. I don't get why. There were about 3 other defensemen I'd have benched ahead of him but oh well.

One thing that stands out is how quickly he makes good plays, doesn't need a ton of time to think with the puck. In comparison to Suomi, much less risky and ambitious, more reliable passing. Didn't do a single rush with the puck where he holds it for a long time like Suomi seems to constantly do and circle around(Kiviharju usually gives the puck up after a second or two) and Kiviharju also constantly stayed back as the lowest defenseman, but still Kiviharju was far more effective offensively.

And Kakko was different from every other Finnish prospect too, its called the shiny new toy syndrome.

 

[bebl]

Yup it's all about hyping up the current "wonderkid" and eventually when the player makes the NHL and doesn't score at a ppg pace right away, the hype posters suddenly go quiet lol.

Kakko is the ultimate example of this, there were literally Finnish posters here claiming that he would make a tremendous impact straight away, and be the better prospect than Jack Hughes lmao.

Kakko was still probably most dominant draft aged player in modern Liiga history so he deserved hype, unlike Tolvanen etc. He maybe wasn't better prospect than Hughes but was better player and here in hfboards fans argue about who is better player when we are talking about prospects which is wrong.

 

[bebl]

And Kakko was different from every other Finnish prospect too, its called the shiny new toy syndrome.

Its funny how this have come now, when i started posting and reading here every finnish prospect were overlooked by fans and scouting services. Then some redneck homers find this forum and start hyping every prospect from Finland (Laine
/Puljujärvi era). This creates reverse reaction from NA posters and now when prospect like Kiviharju comes around they doubt everything which is deserved (hello ijuka).

 

[OKR]

And Kakko was different from every other Finnish prospect too, its called the shiny new toy syndrome.

I’ve staid quiet on Kiviharju because i don’t feel comfortable talking about expectations for kids so young, but this is such a baseless argument.

”Shiny new toy syndrome” would imply he is only hyped because he is ”new”, which simply isn’t true when he is so much ahead of every Finnish prospect before him at his age.

 

[ijuka]

And Kakko was different from every other Finnish prospect too, its called the shiny new toy syndrome.

I actually started following Kiviharju earlier than I started following Kakko. Even though Kiviharju is 5 years younger. I made this thread 5 years ago. 5 years ago, my assessment was "generational" and "next Erik Karlsson" - When he was 11 years old. I made the decision to start following him after seeing his first shift in one game, when he was 10 years old - that was in 2016, October. Note that when I'm watching young players, I usually am quite meh about them. Say, currently that is the case for Frans Karjalahti and Rasmus Rinne - great scoring for the age but in the games I viewed, didn't see much of interest, How can you say it's "new toy syndrome"? Think a little.

Completely different from Kakko, who I only started following during his Liiga season. You don't have to agree with me but stop with that garbage that it was the same with Kakko, thank you.

 

[bigdog16]

I’ve staid quiet on Kiviharju because i don’t feel comfortable talking about expectations for kids so young, but this is such a baseless argument.

”Shiny new toy syndrome” would imply he is only hyped because he is ”new”, which simply isn’t true when he is so much ahead of every Finnish prospect before him at his age.

Is he not the new next best thing? That would quite literally be the new toy syndrome.

I don't understand why Finns take everything as a personal attack against them. I clearly state he is a very high end prospect but I don't think he is that explosive of a skater, and I get responses telling me I am an idiot and don't know what I am talking about.

Also - ijuka - weird that you were following an 11 year old. Thats really weird.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Is he not the new next best thing? That would quite literally be the new toy syndrome.

I don't understand why Finns take everything as a personal attack against them. I clearly state he is a very high end prospect but I don't think he is that explosive of a skater, and I get responses telling me I am an idiot and don't know what I am talking about.

Also - ijuka - weird that you were following an 11 year old. Thats really weird.

Some people were following McDavid and Crosby for a very, very long time, why not follow a super prospect from your home country?

 

[OKR]

Is he not the new next best thing? That would quite literally be the new toy syndrome.

I don't understand why Finns take everything as a personal attack against them. I clearly state he is a very high end prospect but I don't think he is that explosive of a skater, and I get responses telling me I am an idiot and don't know what I am talking about.

Also - ijuka - weird that you were following an 11 year old. Thats really weird.

You clearly don’t understand what ”new toy syndrome” literally means.

Also fyi no one has taken anything personally, but it’s not really hard to understand why they would if you keep saying ignorant shit like stereotyping whole nation due to one or few posters on stuck up forum full of notoriously biased fan bases lol

 

[bigdog16]

You clearly don’t understand what ”new toy syndrome” literally means.

Also fyi no one has taken anything personally, but it’s not really hard to understand why they would if you keep saying ignorant shit like stereotyping whole nation due to one or few posters on stuck up forum full of notoriously biased fan bases lol

Lol. Go read the old Kakko vs Hughes threads and tell me it's one poster. You will quickly understand where this stereotype comes from

 

[OKR]

Lol. Go read the old Kakko vs Hughes threads and tell me it's one poster. You will quickly understand where this stereotype comes from

It’s just funny to me as pretty much neutral how it’s always ”finnish bias”, when you literally go out your way to drag in Kakko vs. Hughes and the whole ”Finnish bias” debate in to this in the first place, so it’s quite clear that you have bias of your own as well. But that’s just me.

 

[bigdog16]

It’s just funny to me as pretty much neutral how it’s always ”finnish bias”, when you literally go out your way to drag in Kakko vs. Hughes and the whole ”Finnish bias” debate in to this in the first place, so it’s quite clear that you have bias of your own as well. But that’s just me.

Considering I just said that Kiviharju was at the top of this class I'm not sure where you get this assertion from

 

[OKR]

Considering I just said that Kiviharju was at the top of this class I'm not sure where you get this assertion from

I just said where i got the assertion from in the exact post you quoted.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Sigh.... We are still 2 years away from that draft. No question Kiviharja is the biggest name thus far, however I think you need to calm down with the hype.

Remember when aatuu raty was the sure fire #1 pick?

It's been since 2016 that Kiviharju has been well ahead of the other players in the 2024 class.

I never thought for one second that Raty was a number one. I always saw him as a top 15. Thing he was. His fall in the 2nd lap was a mistake.

 

[bebl]

I don't understand why Finns take everything as a personal attack against them.

That's pretty harsh generalization.