Last chance for Dubas and or Keefe?

[ShaneFalco]

How in the heck are we going to win anything with threads like this? I mean, ya, the stock market is melting and yeah I told everyone to go short, but I am telling no one to bet against the Leafs.

Could we lose first round? Sure... PLaying the champs? Sure.

But we could also beat the crap out of them.

We have the best leaf team in over 50 years and we have a thread like this?

I have to say, glad I am not a Leaf reading this... I would be embarassed.

Dubas has made up for not seeing CORONA. Uhhh duh, who saw that coming? Well I did, but over ten years ago... So I would have been wrong anyways.

He and Shanahan and Keefe have created a tremendous culture.

If we lose first round, and all three get fired Steve Yzerman finds a way to hire all three right away.

Stop this kind of stuff right before we go into warrior mode can ya?

Soft players? R U kidding me? No one is soft on this team, not even Holl. BTW no guy who goes through the meat grinder to get to the NHL is SOFT.

U wanna tell Kase he is soft in front of the so called soft guys on the Leafs u are not naming?

Wear a helmet and call the police before hand. Nuthin soft about being in the NHL bro. Nuthin.

Get that through your head, every guy on the NHL ice knows his next shift could be his last.

There has NEVER EVER been an NHL player EVER who is soft. EVER.

Ever been on the ice when pucks are whizzing around YOUR FACE? Ain't nuthin soft about being around that.

Soft NHL and soft NFL? Doesn't exist. Jeremy Bracco and Wellwood weren't soft.

I kind of took Vincent Damphousse under my wing, showed him toronto, what to do, not to do. Etc...

He was a sweet guy, played a sweet game.

But he knew when he went out onto that ice, the fans were NOT soft. And neither should he be, was cool to see him grow up in front of me. Was a crusher when my best friend traded him.

wtaf?

 

[PROUD PAPA]

This is more difficult than it would have beena. few months ago. However, another loss screams "perpetual bridesmaid". One way or another there must be major changes if they lose again.

They have rewarded a culture of "almost good enough" for five playoff runs, what message does it send the players, fans and the league if they don't acknowlege that they don't have men who can get the job done if they lose again? Fans are already very skeptical.

This is as talented a team as any, the issue would be focus, commitment and just plain courage.

Courage is the word that is aptly applied in the playoffs. Some men will go their entire careers without finding the courage to sacrifice and fight through to victory.

There isn't one Cup champion without worldy talent. There also isn't one Cup winner who didn't have bruises and bumps the night they lifted the Cup.

There are PLENTY of teams with ONLY talent or courage who never win.

Agree on the courage or however anyone wants to phrase it.
Until they reach the point of being ready and willing to get bruised and bloodied i will have major concerns. That doesn't mean for a shift or a period. It means every shift including the one following a crushing body check, bad goal against, nasty cross check or painful shot block. It mean every shift, every period of every game of every series. To me it's the exhausting and often vicious marathon teams need to endure that makes winning the Stanley Cup by far the greatest achievement in team sports and it's why i so badly want our boys to make it happen.

 

[keonsbitterness]

wtaf?

Don't ask, run away!

 

[The Iceman]

Think you need to vastly expand your criteria.

If the Leafs lose in 4 vs Leafs lose in 7
If a key player is injured
If the goalie craps the bed
Bad luck, played the 2 time champ,. Loads of variables.

If 6 months ago I told you the Leafs will lose to TB in the 2022 playoffs would anyone be shocked or concerned?

 

[SprDaVE]

I went with no one. A record level season counts for something. Playoffs will say a lot of course. I'd expect more changes to the team of course but not sure it'll be anything major.

I could see a "major" trade shake off though. That's the more likely thing.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Agree on the courage or however anyone wants to phrase it.
Until they reach the point of being ready and willing to get bruised and bloodied i will have major concerns. That doesn't mean for a shift or a period. It means every shift including the one following a crushing body check, bad goal against, nasty cross check or painful shot block. It mean every shift, every period of every game of every series. To me it's the exhausting and often vicious marathon teams need to endure that makes winning the Stanley Cup by far the greatest achievement in team sports and it's why i so badly want our boys to make it happen.

Indeed.

I've ascertained that it's most impressive to do what Brady did in a team sports, only because one loss along the way and you are out come playoffs, you don't have the luxury of a seven game series where you can burn a game or two, it's constant game 7's along the way.

In terms of the difficulty of constant intense grind and sacrifice though. no pro team sporting pursuit matches that of the Stanley Cup champion,

I look at some of these players and think "they've figured it out". Then I worry if they will do it when it counts and wonder if their teammates will do the same.

They don't all need to be Tom Wilsons (it certaily helps to have one or two though), it requires sacrifice though and being comfortable out of ones comfort zone. Hit, block shots, drive to the net, hustle both ways, refuse to allow the opposition an easy night.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Why is the bar set at one round? That’s low expectations

It's something. At this point, just give us anything, like absolutely anything in the postseason.

1 round win and I'll be as happy as a pig in shit.

 

[AvroArrow]

Depends entirely on the way the playoffs/series plays out. If we win, obvious no. If we lose but in a very competitive manner, a close 6-7 game series, not getting blown out in any game, no. If we lose in convincing fashion, there has to be some changes.

The mains are all hoping we lose again, people are laughing that we've drawn Tampa Bay, probably the most difficult possible opponent. The only acceptable outcomes for me in round 1 are either a series win, or if we lose I want a very competitive series where the team plays their f***ing asses off and Matthews/Marner are dominant as they have been in the regular season.

Losing in 5 or less is unacceptable. Getting blown out in an elimination game is unacceptable. Either of those 2 things happen and I expect major changes.

 

[AvroArrow]

But you said you actively dislike them. I mean...those are our boys. They are flawed. Yes, I wish we had a Jeannot and Middleton and Vasilevski. We don't. My ideal team also looks different from Dubas, but why are we acting so negatively before we even have a chance to play in the playoffs? Why the pre-emptive strikes? So you can go "I told you so?"

I don't see constantly shitting on them as supporting the team.

He claims to be a fan yet all he does is shit on the team. We have a few of these kinds of "fans"

 

[Jozay]

I mean, yeah. If they lose in the first round again its another huge fail.

 

[AvroArrow]

Why is the bar set at one round? That’s low expectations

Because funny enough, our 1st round opponent would be more difficult than any other team we would face in the entire playoffs, assuming we made a cup run.

This playoff format is so god damn stupid lol. You have the #3 seed vs #5 seed in round 1, and in the West you have the #2 seed vs #3 seed in the first round.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Isn't anyone here weirdly obsessed with the team? Why else would you be here if you weren't?

I had never been on this website prior to joining back in March. I recall the name of the poster they alleged I was and looked for posts from that person to see why but could only find a few mentions of this person and either a couple of posts, or none. I don't remember.

Would love to look at who this person was to see why anyone would think I was him/her. I'm not but it'd be interesting to see what I think about them.

What did this person do that reminds of me? You said "weirdly obsessed" but, again, isn't that anyone who posts here in their favorite team's forum? I'm genuinely curious.

Stop protesting too much!

 

[Spargon]

I see some trolls have circled back to the whole "everything about the team is garbage, and I have the true reasonable take and anyone who doesn't think every part of this team is crap is just a Dubas apologist" schtick.

Keefe is the fastest Leaf coach to 100 wins in team history, we have the most regulation wins and points in team history. Sorry he's not going anywhere.

I am curious to know what super elite GM people who are crying for Dubas to be fired would hire, because I am willing to bet the alternatives will be garbage and based on track records from years ago and not current results.

 

[Sypher04]

If you were to find the pre-series odds for the Leafs the last 4 years, you would see that the chances of us losing all 4 series is quite small, like less than 10%

Huh?

Both Boston series were even matchups, and it’s some serious revisionist history by many here in this thread to argue that we were some heavy favorites vs Columbus. We were against Montreal and we botched that. We were probably slight favorites over Columbus but definitely not either of the Boston series. I don’t think we were underdogs the 2nd time, but we definitely were not favorites either

It’s insane to me that the negativity here today is even more insufferable than it was 6-7 years ago when we actually were a bad team

 

[Nylanderthal]

Hmm. Guys like that? Those are the guys like that.

I don't feel like debating your Nylander soft comment, but who is soft on the Leafs besides him?

Well doobler wears cardigans and I heard his glasses are for aesthetic purposes only, so he’s definitely 10 ply

 

[Nylanderthal]

Ahhh, did my username trigger you?

It’s not triggering it’s just dumb and transparent

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Ahhh, did my username trigger you?

No I chuckled tbh - does the site let you update it?

 

[Leaf Fans]

It might be something to do with the fact that this "New Leafs Poster" for some reason only decided to sign up for this Leafs site 1 month ago, with the Leafs on the verge of a franchise record season, with the only apparent purpose to post negative BS and ignore all responses correcting his "mistakes" in order to keep provoking more responses with yet more "mistaken" claims.

Strange stuff. I wish there was a name for that kind of behavior.

There is a name for this type of behavior. In wordle, RLOTL would be the letters, but they are in the wrong places. I think everyone can figure it out. Here is a mulligan anyway: the first letter is T.

 

[JKG33]

Could you do everyone here including yourself a favour and go the kings forum?

I'm sure there's a block button or something you can hit if my posts bother you so much

 

[Sypher04]

Suggesting that thinking a team that has been top 5 virtually all year could make noise in the playoffs is false hope is utterly assinine.

Please excuse me while I call the rest of the league and let them know we won’t be playing a Stanley cup playoffs this year and will be just awarding it to the Tampa to save everyone’s time

 

[Ziggdiezan]

For whatever reason I think Keefe will be the first to go if the team falters in the first round again. As others have said Dubas likely gets a chance to shake up the core. If he isn't willing he may be in trouble though.

Its on the players at this point. This team has good enough players to win 1 series in 6 years, thats due to Dubas who has provided a good enough team to go deep so I think he is relatively safe if he is willing to be flexible

 

[57 Years No Cup]

This is more difficult than it would have beena. few months ago. However, another loss screams "perpetual bridesmaid". One way or another there must be major changes if they lose again.

They have rewarded a culture of "almost good enough" for five playoff runs, what message does it send the players, fans and the league if they don't acknowlege that they don't have men who can get the job done if they lose again? Fans are already very skeptical.

This is as talented a team as any, the issue would be focus, commitment and just plain courage.

Courage is the word that is aptly applied in the playoffs. Some men will go their entire careers without finding the courage to sacrifice and fight through to victory.

There isn't one Cup champion without worldy talent. There also isn't one Cup winner who didn't have bruises and bumps the night they lifted the Cup.

There are PLENTY of teams with ONLY talent or courage who never win.

Beautiful post!

 

[justloveleafs]

Incredible management team, incredible season and kinda incredible this thread is still going. And Mark Hunter found Bunting right?

 

[Eternal Leaf]

If the Leafs lose, I would 100% keep Dubas.

He's a good GM and it's a solid team that's been put together. I would probably say the same for Keefe too depending on his coaching performance in round 1. Obviously, if he gets outclassed by Cooper then that is a different story.

However, the real focus has to be on the players now. At some point, they are to blame especially with a well-rounded team like this one.

I would expect a major change or two in the off-season by Dubas.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I see some trolls have circled back to the whole "everything about the team is garbage, and I have the true reasonable take and anyone who doesn't think every part of this team is crap is just a Dubas apologist" schtick.

Keefe is the fastest Leaf coach to 100 wins in team history, we have the most regulation wins and points in team history. Sorry he's not going anywhere.

I am curious to know what super elite GM people who are crying for Dubas to be fired would hire, because I am willing to bet the alternatives will be garbage and based on track records from years ago and not current results.

There are plenty of assistant GMs around the league ready to be a GM. For me it comes down to this:

1) Keep Dubas, which means keeping the core together, likely making the playoffs every year, and hoping for a playoff breakthrough.

2) Fire Dubas, which means hiring someone who is likely making at least two major changes to the core and the uncertainty of post-trade team chemistry & performance.

I don't think MLSE is ready for option #2.