Last chance for Dubas and or Keefe?

[Menzinger]

I think regardless of how one as a fan feels, it's unlikely. Losing in the first round to the defending cup champs after setting a franchise regular season record in points isn't exactly a tire-fire of a disaster that some may try and make it seem.

If there IS a first round loss, I'd suspect the front office is given marching orders to shake up the teams roster/core.

The Dubas-Shanny tandem will likely get at least 5 seasons together before the board consider firing them (there's very little chance they will fire one and not the other - at this point they're a single entity). And it's doubtful Dubas' will opt to make two coaching changes in such a short period - he and Keefe are a tandem too.

People underestimate how long GMs stay on the job for.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Huh?

Both Boston series were even matchups, and it’s some serious revisionist history by many here in this thread to argue that we were some heavy favorites vs Columbus. We were against Montreal and we botched that. We were probably slight favorites over Columbus but definitely not either of the Boston series. I don’t think we were underdogs the 2nd time, but we definitely were not favorites either

It’s insane to me that the negativity here today is even more insufferable than it was 6-7 years ago when we actually were a bad team

I'd say we were underdogs both times against Boston, but not big dogs, we were slight favourites over CLB and we were heavy favourites against MTL. So we're roughly on the same page as far as that goes so all you need to do now is the math.

If every series was a coin flip, the odds of losing 4 in a row is 15 to1, or 6.25%. What I said was the chances of us losing all four series was less than 10% and I'm pretty sure that's accurate.

Does that makes sense now?

 

[AllDay28]

That's the frustrating part about it yes.

I was a diehard Sundin and Belfour fan as a kid. Even the supporting cast was like-able in those days.

But now? Not so much. It's why I hate Dubas so much, for filling my favorite team with soft players.

I'm not even asking for superstars. Just good hard nosed two way players that play playoff hockey. Schenn, ROR, Wilson, guys like that

Belfour was a alcoholic and ROR drove his car through a Timmies while drunk. Good times.

 

[kk87]

If we lose in round one, I think the context for that series matters. If Tampa embarrasses us and wins in 4 or 5 games, and none of the stars show up, we'd have to at least consider some changes. If we lose a hard fought 6 or 7 game series that could go either way, it's hard to look at this season as an abject failure, even though it'd really sting.

 

[Cournoyer12]

Habs fan here. I think your outfit has a significant chance of doing major damage in PO’s this year! I firmly believe the D will tighten up and I also believe Soupy will too. You guys have a very exciting roster and I wish all the best! I always root for Canadian teams. Believe it or not I also am very fond of the Leafs. I know sounds convoluted like being a Yankees fan and a RedSox fan but it is what it is! Again all the best to the Leafs and their devoted fan base.

 

[JKG33]

Belfour was a alcoholic and ROR drove his car through a Timmies while drunk. Good times.

Ya know what else they have in common? Cup rings

 

[Leaf Fans]

Ya know what else they have in common? Cup rings

Campbell and Muzzin have those in common with them as well.

 

[JKG33]

Campbell and Muzzin have those in common with them as well.

I must've missed where Campbell won a Stanley Cup. A Calder cup sure

 

[Nucks4Life]

This is an interesting poll.

TBH I don't really know what my view is on this. As Canucks fan who lives in Toronto but is not a leaf hater I like to think I am objective on this.

Part of me says, yes Dubas, Shannahan, Coaches all go if the lose again, because how can you have so much talent and still lose in the first round.

Another part says, look at how long it took the Capitals to win a cup and how they were always coming up against Pittsburgh and losing in the first 2 rounds. Granted they got out of the first round a number of times.

I also look at the issue of the Leafs construction and I think most of their fans will agree, the issue of defense and goaltending have been an issue for a LONG time, so this is on Dubas. Yes Soups is playing well but he's a retread and who knows how he will play in the playoffs / if he can carry this team. Look at Anderson in Carolina, clearly the issue was not him.

End of the day Dubas spent the big money on Tavares vs fixing the two glaring holes on his team, D and G. He already had a ton of offensive talent and could have kept Kadri. As a result, he's made his bed. If they don't get out of the first, he is definitely gone, and since Keefe is his boy, he's gone too. I feel for them as Tampa is no cakewalk and know how to flip the switch on.

If the lose the offseason moves will be interesting as they will need to make some changes and changes that may not be easy to take for leaf fans.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I must've missed where Campbell won a Stanley Cup. A Calder cup sure

Nope, you didn't miss it. I was just wrong.

 

[AcerComputer]

I don't thinking firing everyone will fix anything. Just need to breakup the core, which isntoo top heavy. If we can ship out Muzzin or Tavares that would help the team. If not, we maybhave to trade Marner.

 

[Jojalu]

Condolences, my brother! That Chiefs Bills AFC divisional game was something else. I was pulling for the Bills in that one.

You are a glutton for punishment. Both of your teams seem so close yet so far.

Pretty good quote tonite.

"Greatest thing about a team is when an individual accomplishment is met and everyone feels a part of it"

 

[deprw]

This thread is utter and stupid nonsense. Is this forum for Leafs fans or what? Why we discuss this just before the playoffs after greatest regular season we've ever had.

Shit disturbing par excellence.

 

[Ciao]

Agreed! IF they finally do what we all believe they are capable of, then yes, all this will be nothing but a bridge to a beautiful destination on the other side. If they don't, it's an unfinished bridge leading to despair below.

Where I sit, I'm more in the prove me wrong state of mind. I believed in this team too much only to be let down. I've had two points penciled in vs. bottom feeders many times this season, only to see the Leafs get spanked. Shoot, I expected a huge response for Wayne Train's 1000th and they laid an egg just like they do almost every single time you're expecting something different.

I thought the Leafs finally had gotten over the hump after their HUGE win in Boston in Game 5 a few years back. Nope. Lost in 7, again.

The way I look at it, I have a few scars from putting my hand on the stove, but you guys have never taken it off even when someone tells you maybe you should! Masochists!

Tragic. If you're such a long-time heartbroken Leafs fan, where have you been until March 2022?

What's your other user name?

Some of us are wondering?

 

[Ciao]

This thread is utter and stupid nonsense. Is this forum for Leafs fans or what? Why we discuss this just before the playoffs after greatest regular season we've ever had.

Shit disturbing par excellence.

That's What Some like to do.

Leopards don't change their spots.

 

[Rocky Flintstone]

I don't think Dubas gets the boot this year. Keefe more likely if we crash and burn.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

it's a tough call because Dubas, or Shanny, whoever it is can go to ownership and say "look we won more games, and put up more points than we ever have in the history of this franchise."

and that's true, that's a fact they have set franchise records in wins and points and so you could argue they don't deserve to be fired.

But at the same time how many times can you lose in round 1 before that doesn't matter?

and that's the question that has to be asked

and if Dubas does stay

is this the year the core changes? do you really want to make core changes to a team that broke franchise records?

or do you look at the goaltending if they go down again?

I personally believe as good as they have been goaltending has probably cost them 15-20 points .

That's where I'd look but will they?

 

[DarkKnight]

Bad karma this thread, plenty of time for pitchforks after, I prefer to just be excited and positive right now. It’s playoff time, let’s f***ing do something!!

 

[All Mod Cons]

Zero chance it will happen. Should it?, is a different conversation. But there's no chance it will happen. We'll go through the same thing next regular season.

 

[Morbo]

This is an interesting poll.

TBH I don't really know what my view is on this. As Canucks fan who lives in Toronto but is not a leaf hater I like to think I am objective on this.

Part of me says, yes Dubas, Shannahan, Coaches all go if the lose again, because how can you have so much talent and still lose in the first round.

Another part says, look at how long it took the Capitals to win a cup and how they were always coming up against Pittsburgh and losing in the first 2 rounds. Granted they got out of the first round a number of times.

I also look at the issue of the Leafs construction and I think most of their fans will agree, the issue of defense and goaltending have been an issue for a LONG time, so this is on Dubas. Yes Soups is playing well but he's a retread and who knows how he will play in the playoffs / if he can carry this team. Look at Anderson in Carolina, clearly the issue was not him.

End of the day Dubas spent the big money on Tavares vs fixing the two glaring holes on his team, D and G. He already had a ton of offensive talent and could have kept Kadri. As a result, he's made his bed. If they don't get out of the first, he is definitely gone, and since Keefe is his boy, he's gone too. I feel for them as Tampa is no cakewalk and know how to flip the switch on.

If the lose the offseason moves will be interesting as they will need to make some changes and changes that may not be easy to take for leaf fans.

I think you need to reacquaint yourself with the facts there regarding the defence

Kadri is a selfish player who put himself ahead of the team a number of times. There's no room for that here.

 

[Leafs87]

Playing devils advocate it will be very easy for Dubas to make a case that they’re facing the 2 time Stanley cups champions

 

[Morbo]

As for the topic, nobody is getting fired even if they lose another first round.

If they didn't get fired after the monumental failure that was last year, what will it take??

Leaf ownership loves Dubas, even if his peers don't.

 

[ToneDog]

As for the topic, nobody is getting fired even if they lose another first round.

If they didn't get fired after the monumental failure that was last year, what will it take??

Leaf ownership loves Dubas, even if his peers don't.

A second monumental failure ??

Dubas/Shanny doubled and tripled down on the core. Bet your life that the media will let MLSEL hear about it until the cows come in if they suffer another monumental failure. I am afraid that Management may force/pressure Dubas/Shanny into making a trade that will come back to haunt us.

The boys said they would get it done when it counted. The school year is over. Final exams start next week. Get it done.

 

[Morbo]

A second monumental failure ??

but that's not possible? they aren't facing the weakest opponent they'll ever face in the playoffs, they're facing the 2 time defending champs. that's what made it monumental.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I also look at the issue of the Leafs construction and I think most of their fans will agree, the issue of defense and goaltending have been an issue for a LONG time, so this is on Dubas.

no, most fans absolutely do not agree that the team has defensive issues Dubas has failed to address.

He turned

Rielly
Gardiner
Hainsey
Zaitsev
Polak
Borgman
Carrick
Dermott

into

Rielly
Muzzin
Brodie
Giordano
Holl
Liljegren (in the system before he was named GM)
Sandin
Lyubushkin

The defensive group has been steadily improving under Dubas and is currently the best the Leafs have had in the cap era imo.