Last chance for Dubas and or Keefe?

[keonsbitterness]

Condolences, my brother! That Chiefs Bills AFC divisional game was something else. I was pulling for the Bills in that one.

You are a glutton for punishment. Both of your teams seem so close yet so far.

Go Islanders!

 

[JKG33]

But you said you actively dislike them. I mean...those are our boys. They are flawed. Yes, I wish we had a Jeannot and Middleton and Vasilevski. We don't. My ideal team also looks different from Dubas, but why are we acting so negatively before we even have a chance to play in the playoffs? Why the pre-emptive strikes? So you can go "I told you so?"

I don't see constantly shitting on them as supporting the team.

I do dislike a lot of the players that have been assembled, and I outright hate the GM.

If I think this is a failed group from the get go, why am I not allowed to say that? Is this forum exclusively for the Dubas fan club?

I love the team because I grew up doing so, it's a cross I'll bear for the rest of my life. But I'm not going to delude myself into a false hope

 

[riffle]

You keep missing the point to talk about awards. Forget the awards entirely as they seem to be confusing you.

If you rag on a player when they play poorly, and ignore when they play well that's the issue. It's one thing to cheer a player and jeer a player depending on their performance. It's entirely a different thing to only comment on when they struggle.

I "rag" on a player when I think it is warranted and don't when it isn't. I don't always comment on player struggles. I've chosen to stay away from the Matthews thread on his goal scoring because it's not of interest to me.

That has nothing to do with me recognizing his importance to this team and the fact he's in the longest goalless stretch of his season after a mysterious injury.

When looking at something, I'm more concerned about what isn't working than what is. What is working doesn't need to be addressed, because it is working. What isn't working needs addressing so it can work, too.

Your concern is predicated on the fact that you and I see the game of hockey very differently. I'm okay with however you see it, but you are not okay with how I see it. I understand the point you're trying to make and I'm telling you that is not what you're trying to make of it. I'm no more part of the Auston fan club, than I am the Mitch fan club. I've stated that Marner is my favorite player but go look at how many posts I've made in that thread. It may be less than Auston's. I'm not wired the way you think I should be.

 

[Gallagbi]

IIRC both teams made coaching changes to get to the promised land, Off the top of my head Caps Boudreau, Hunter, Oates and Trotts. Wings Demers, Murray, Scotty (Cup), Smith, Lewis and Babs (Cup).

Trotz won in his 4th season. Scotty his 4th as well. Babs was in his 3rd. So not really immediate Cup wins from the change

 

[JKG33]

So STL gets better without the True #1 D, and the Knights get worse with the True #1 D.

But you won't let that change your mind.

and i'm pretty sure you're the one who just called ME arrogant, too.

It's almost like there's other factors at play there besides Pietrangelo, but don't let facts get in the way of a good narrative

 

[keonsbitterness]

I do dislike a lot of the players that have been assembled

Which ones?

I "rag" on a player when I think it is warranted and don't when it isn't. I don't always comment on player struggles. I've chosen to stay away from the Matthews thread on his goal scoring because it's not of interest to me.

That has nothing to do with me recognizing his importance to this team and the fact he's in the longest goalless stretch of his season after a mysterious injury.

When looking at something, I'm more concerned about what isn't working than what is. What is working doesn't need to be addressed, because it is working. What isn't working needs addressing so it can't work, too.

Your concern is predicated on the fact that you and I see the game of hockey very differently. I'm okay with however you see it, but you are not okay with how I see it. I understand the point you're trying to make and I'm telling you that is not what you're trying to make of it. I'm no more part of the Auston fan club, than I am the Mitch fan club. I've stated that Marner is my favorite player but go look at how many posts I've made in that thread. It may be less than Auston's. I'm not wired the way you think I should be.

Holy pretentious, Batman!

 

[Gallagbi]

As did I. If they lose respectfully I won't complain but if they are beaten in the alley or embarrassed, most of Leaf nation will blow a gasket. If there is enough noise, I bet management gives them their pound of flesh.

Management may be the pound of flesh, it really depends on what happens in the series.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Cant see them making any major changes even if we get swept
We are going to continue to fill our team with near league min contracts until Tavares expires by then hopefully we still have Matthews and we resign Marner
cant see them moving on from Nylander and being better afterwards
Im starting to think we never get past the 1st round and Matthews/Nylander walk
Marner resigns because he's a leaf for his career unless traded at some point

 

[zeke]

Il admit they look better this year but it’s hard to get excited about that until they win a playoff series.

that's fair. i won't be happy unless they win the cup myself. though I have an easier time enjoying the ride at the same time I guess.

But the fact that they're much better than you thought they'd be this regular season should give you some second thoughts as to how real you think their flaws are at least.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The biggest question surrounding this team is Campbell and how Matthews and Marner respond to last years failure. So far they both doing and saying everything right.

I don't think what they say matters much, we'll see how they play. I feel pretty good about M&M "showing up" this year though the fact that Matthews missed a few games recently is a bit concerning, but Campbell is obviously the big question.

It seems likely that TB will win the goaltending battle. We just have to hope that Campbell can keep it close, and the rest of the team can outplay the rest of TB by enough that we end up coming out on top. TB is scary as hell. They are a complete team with no major weaknesses, they have the best goalie in the NHL and they know what it takes to win. We better be ready to play from the moment the puck is dropped cause you know damn well TB will be ready and we can't afford to give them anything for free.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Agreed! IF they finally do what we all believe they are capable of, then yes, all this will be nothing but a bridge to a beautiful destination on the other side. If they don't, it's an unfinished bridge leading to despair below.

Where I sit, I'm more in the prove me wrong state of mind. I believed in this team too much only to be let down. I've had two points penciled in vs. bottom feeders many times this season, only to see the Leafs get spanked. Shoot, I expected a huge response for Wayne Train's 1000th and they laid an egg just like they do almost every single time you're expecting something different.

I thought the Leafs finally had gotten over the hump after their HUGE win in Boston in Game 5 a few years back. Nope. Lost in 7, again.

The way I look at it, I have a few scars from putting my hand on the stove, but you guys have never taken it off even when someone tells you maybe you should! Masochists!

Big deal, that happens to every team. It means nothing.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I think Keefe is on borrowed time right now. He’s coming off two series losses where he was coaching the better team on paper. Now he has to find a way to pull off an upset to save his job.

 

[JKG33]

Which ones?

I think Matthews and Marner have a lot of maturing to do, to put it nicely. They've also got a ways to go before they earn their $11m in the playoffs.

Tavares, I like the person but he's even more overpaid than the other two and has a longer career of playoff futility.

Nylander is the only one of the 4 worth his cap hit, but he's as soft as they come and is equally electric as he is frustrating.

As someone that watches a lot of the pacifc division I can't feel good about cheering for Giordano after watching him knee guys for years.

I love Campbell, Muzzin and Reilly, I'm fairly indifferent on the rest.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Big deal, that happens to every team. It means nothing.

What drives me nuts about the losing to bad teams talking point is we were once a bad team. We still won games against good teams. It's like people have the memory of a goldfish.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I think Matthews and Marner have a lot of maturing to do, to put it nicely. They've also got a ways to go before they earn their $11m in the playoffs.

Tavares, I like the person but he's even more overpaid than the other two and has a longer career of playoff futility.

Nylander is the only one of the 4 worth his cap hit, but he's as soft as they come and is equally electric as he is frustrating.

As someone that watches a lot of the pacifc division I can't feel good about cheering for Giordano after watching him knee guys for years.

I love Campbell, Muzzin and Reilly, I'm fairly indifferent on the rest.

So three players? Wow! I liked more than three when the Leafs were crap (the 80s for example). Makes me wonder why you're even here.

 

[ACC1224]

What drives me nuts about the losing to bad teams talking point is we were once a bad team. We still won games against good teams. It's like people have the memory of a goldfish.

I wish.

 

[Leafsfan74]

This is more difficult than it would have beena. few months ago. However, another loss screams "perpetual bridesmaid". One way or another there must be major changes if they lose again.

They have rewarded a culture of "almost good enough" for five playoff runs, what message does it send the players, fans and the league if they don't acknowlege that they don't have men who can get the job done if they lose again? Fans are already very skeptical.

This is as talented a team as any, the issue would be focus, commitment and just plain courage.

Courage is the word that is aptly applied in the playoffs. Some men will go their entire careers without finding the courage to sacrifice and fight through to victory.

There isn't one Cup champion without worldy talent. There also isn't one Cup winner who didn't have bruises and bumps the night they lifted the Cup.

There are PLENTY of teams with ONLY talent or courage who never win.

 

[JKG33]

So three players? Wow! I liked more than three when the Leafs were crap (the 80s for example). Makes me wonder why you're even here.

That's the frustrating part about it yes.

I was a diehard Sundin and Belfour fan as a kid. Even the supporting cast was like-able in those days.

But now? Not so much. It's why I hate Dubas so much, for filling my favorite team with soft players.

I'm not even asking for superstars. Just good hard nosed two way players that play playoff hockey. Schenn, ROR, Wilson, guys like that

 

[Jmo89]

Dubas and Keefe have have made some significant decisions that were poor (especially the former) but eventually the players need to be held accountable. The team is good enough to be top 3-5 in the regular season, they should be good enough to win some in the playoffs.

I would prefer a different GM if they flame out again, but I'm thinking there are a couple significant trades and Dubas and Keefe get at least one more shot.

Shanahan stays IMO.

 

[Jojalu]

That's the frustrating part about it yes.

I was a diehard Sundin and Belfour fan as a kid. Even the supporting cast was like-able in those days.

But now? Not so much. It's why I hate Dubas so much, for filling my favorite team with soft players.

I'm not even asking for superstars. Just good hard nosed two way players that play playoff hockey. Schenn, ROR, Wilson, guys like that

Hmm. Guys like that? Those are the guys like that.

I don't feel like debating your Nylander soft comment, but who is soft on the Leafs besides him?

 

[justloveleafs]

How in the heck are we going to win anything with threads like this? I mean, ya, the stock market is melting and yeah I told everyone to go short, but I am telling no one to bet against the Leafs.

Could we lose first round? Sure... PLaying the champs? Sure.

But we could also beat the crap out of them.

We have the best leaf team in over 50 years and we have a thread like this?

I have to say, glad I am not a Leaf reading this... I would be embarassed.

Dubas has made up for not seeing CORONA. Uhhh duh, who saw that coming? Well I did, but over ten years ago... So I would have been wrong anyways.

He and Shanahan and Keefe have created a tremendous culture.

If we lose first round, and all three get fired Steve Yzerman finds a way to hire all three right away.

Stop this kind of stuff right before we go into warrior mode can ya?

Soft players? R U kidding me? No one is soft on this team, not even Holl. BTW no guy who goes through the meat grinder to get to the NHL is SOFT.

U wanna tell Kase he is soft in front of the so called soft guys on the Leafs u are not naming?

Wear a helmet and call the police before hand. Nuthin soft about being in the NHL bro. Nuthin.

Get that through your head, every guy on the NHL ice knows his next shift could be his last.

There has NEVER EVER been an NHL player EVER who is soft. EVER.

Ever been on the ice when pucks are whizzing around YOUR FACE? Ain't nuthin soft about being around that.

Soft NHL and soft NFL? Doesn't exist. Jeremy Bracco and Wellwood weren't soft.

I kind of took Vincent Damphousse under my wing, showed him toronto, what to do, not to do. Etc...

He was a sweet guy, played a sweet game.

But he knew when he went out onto that ice, the fans were NOT soft. And neither should he be, was cool to see him grow up in front of me. Was a crusher when my best friend traded him.

 

[Warden of the North]

No, but squandering the last 2-3 seasons certainly is their fault

Last year, fine.

Bluejackets? That was the COVID bubble. No one can be faulted for that gong show.

Year before that? Bruins. At best a wash. We were the lower seed. Why should an underdog team be blamed for losing to a better team?

 

[Nylanderthal]

This could not have been part of the 1000 other threads on the subject?

OP started thread & based on poll results and OP’s post history I’m sure they are not getting the desired results. lol

 

[Gary Nylund]

Last year, fine.

Bluejackets? That was the COVID bubble. No one can be faulted for that gong show.

Year before that? Bruins. At best a wash. We were the lower seed. Why should an underdog team be blamed for losing to a better team?

Underdogs don't always lose though and we haven't always even been the underdogs.

If you were to find the pre-series odds for the Leafs the last 4 years, you would see that the chances of us losing all 4 series is quite small, like less than 10%. The issue isn't that we lost this series or that series, it's that we lose every series we play no matter who we play and at some point, that's just not acceptable any more. So at point does losing become unacceptable is the question.

If we lose again then IMHO a lot depends on how it happens but one logical thing to try might be a new coach. Not sure if Dubas would be willing to even consider making such a move though, it's possible he values loyalty more than he should.

 

[GoonieFace]

Why is the bar set at one round? That’s low expectations