Last chance for Dubas and or Keefe?

[Brown Dog]

Panthers
Hurricanes
Maple Leafs
Rangers
Lightning
Bruins
Penguins
Capitals
Avalanche
Wild
Blues
Flames
Oilers
Kings
Predators
Stars

50% of these teams won't make it out of the first round. I can't name more than a few from this list that would consider that outcome the culmination of a successful season. Never mind the 16 teams that won't even make the playoffs.

I get that we are in a unique situation, losing in Round 1 for so many consecutive seasons, especially now that we are well into this core's contention window. But beating the two-time defending Cup champs still loaded with stars in their prime and maybe the best goalie in the league won't be easy. Most will probably consider us underdogs even with home ice advantage.

That's not to offer pre-emptive excuses or to say that losing in Round 1 wouldn't be (yet another) devastating failure. But are we looking for the catharsis of a blood sacrifice? Or do we really believe a regime overhaul right now is a wise idea? The team shown growth this year under Dubas and Keefe's leadership and is well-positioned to continue being competitive going forward no matter what happens in the playoffs.

 

[3blizzard4]

Mike Jhonson was fired by Pens afer 1.5 years in 2015-2016. Rutherford(A veteran GM) didn't feel his team was trending in the right direction
Jhonson was 58–37–15

Hires Mike Sullivan and they win the Stanly Cup back to back years 2016-2017

Sullivan who was an assitant coach to Torts(a Stanly cup winner, Olympian) and assistant coach in the Olympics was already a assistant coach for the Pens
He wasn't some AHL coach needed a job, learned on the job.... Because to manage bunch of supertstars like Malkin and Crosby, you didn't just hand the keys to some AHLer. Not everyone is going to be John Cooper or Marc Crawford

There is only one way to see it. black and white. This will be the what 4 years out of first round out for Dubas?
Sheldon keefe will be 3rd?

Vegas fired Gallant 2 years after going to the finals
Montreal even fired their coach and GM after going to the finals

But hey, you know me. I must have a personal vandetta against Dubas and Keefe

Tampa fired Torts I believe during Stammers rookie season abs hired Cooper.

Chicago fired Savard during Kane’s rookie season and hired Q.

 

[riffle]

Tampa had an established pattern of not winning without that 3rd line.

You said a lot of words to not address much.

"Why be upset for someone believing in something that is most likely to happen?"

I'd assume the most likely outcome based on history is the team finishing higher in the standings wins.

Really just none of your OPINIONS follow much logic.

And, I would argue that you have a very difficult time contemplating ANYTHING that makes you FEEL something you don't want to feel. Understandable. We're all different.

Check on Colorado and see how they've finished in the regular season the last few years and then compare that with their playoff fate. Start with last season. Pretty interesting stuff in that alone.

It is likely the Leafs don't win vs. Tampa. You firing back with your "you're an idiot and I don't care what you say" mentality doesn't change that.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

That list is subjective as it is calibrated to your personal tastes.

I have commented on Matthews quest. I don't care. I've said that over and over. Personal achievements are not meaningless, but to me, they matter very little. I'm a TEAM over INDIVIDUAL kind of guy. I posted a poll about this because I've seen over the years that some fans are still happy after a loss because their favorite player scored. I find that very weird. I've seen many here lusting to see 60. I would rather see a big win over Detroit than Auston hit 60, although, I would like to see him score or his drought reaches 6.

To me, I find it very sad that you think a TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS fan needs to be absorbed or caught up in Auston's number of goals. I have one goal as a fan...seeing the team skate around with the Cup hoisted high. that is what matters to me. Marner is my favorite player. I don't care if he scores 40 or 14 as long as they win.

EDIT: I would also add that I have seen rose colored glasses posters on every sports forum I've ever spent any time on. I think someone who is programmed to every single time say something positive about the team is as troubling as someone who is always wired to say something negative. You have me framed as always negative. Not the case. If you have time to go through my thousand posts, here, you may have some data that goes against the confirmation-bias that has formed.

So Matthews winning the rocket doesn't matter, Matthews not scoring a few games the season is over and all is lost.

Yeah can't imagine why you people might paint you a certain way..

 

[notbias]

And, I would argue that you have a very difficult time contemplating ANYTHING that makes you FEEL something you don't want to feel. Understandable. We're all different.

Check on Colorado and see how they've finished in the regular season the last few years and then compare that with their playoff fate. Start with last season. Pretty interesting stuff in that alone.

It is likely the Leafs don't win vs. Tampa. You firing back with your "you're an idiot and I don't care what you say" mentality doesn't change that.

No, not calling you an idiot, just dishonest, cherry-picking Colorado is a perfect example of that.
It has as much relevance as me saying "check out the last two-time Stanley Cup champs and how they have faired in the playoffs since."

 

[Martin Skoula]

lol no worries, you've been good to argue with the last few days. Respect.

I love Rielly, but he's a pretty low end 1D and not one you'd want if you're a serious contender. Pietrangelo was recently a UFA and if you believe the reports he actually wanted to come to Toronto. The contract he signed with Vegas was reasonable, all Dubas would've had to do was clear a little bit of extra cap space (most of which could be accounted for by not signing Holl and Brodie).

Theres a difference between hitting in the regular season and following through with that plan come playoff time, especially against a rough, dirty and physical team like Tampa. The forwards are still undersized too. There was that athletic article posted on the main boards the other day correlating cup winners with the best ratio of size and # of hits.

Vegas fans already regret the Pietrangelo deal, he is not looking good.

 

[JKG33]

Tampa fired Torts I believe during Stammers rookie season abs hired Cooper.

Chicago fired Savard during Kane’s rookie season and hired Q.

I think Torts was fired before Stamkos arrived. They had Guy Boucher for a bit before Cooper

 

[zeke]

I don't tear down the team. That is your perception. I question things that all of us have questions about.

Sure, I suppose a lot of the questions I pose and expound on are things you'd rather ignore, but doesn't mean you don't think about them like I do.

As for cheering for the team, that is a bad reframing of me based on questioning things. You should see me during a game. My young daughter is now a Marner fan in the most casual sense. Bought her a pink Leafs jersey that arrived just the other day. My family knows I love the Leafs. Hard to miss that fact given all my Leafs attire that I wear all the time.

Sorry, I don't experience the Leafs the way you want me to but at least I have the part about cheering for them down.

hey btw welcome to this leafs board for the first time ever, brand new leafs poster.

 

[JKG33]

Vegas fans already regret the Pietrangelo deal, he is not looking good.

Their season has been a dumpster fire for a number of reasons, mostly due to cap mismanagement, injuries, coaching, and goaltending.

I wouldn't be worried about Pietrangelo in the least. Elite d-men like him don't randomly fall off a cliff for no reason.

 

[riffle]

So Matthews winning the rocket doesn't matter, Matthews not scoring a few games the season is over and all is lost.

Yeah can't imagine why you people might paint you a certain way..

Nope. Matthews winning the Rocket matters zero to me.

A quick check of the poll on what matters more... Auston hitting 60 or Leafs winning a series, shows 61-1 in favor of Leafs winning a series. I'm not rooting for Draisatl to win the Rocket. I simply don't care who wins.

Marner is my favorite player in the league. I don't care if he hits 100 points, or not. I must not be a fan because I don't care about personal accomplishments? He's my favorite player and I don't care about his point total. Just win a Cup.

 

[zeke]

Vegas fans already regret the Pietrangelo deal, he is not looking good.

Even though Pietrangelo looks terrible and the team is flopping since signing him while the Blues don't miss him even a little bit, some still wish we had traded away Nylander, the much better and younger player, so we could pay Pietro.

And they will yell and scream and hate the Leafs' franchise record roster because they think their own personal opinion is more important than facts.

 

[Martin Skoula]

hey btw welcome to this leafs board for the first time ever, brand new leafs poster.

I'm surprised he didn't come by earlier in the Winter, the Leaf Army could have used another Soldier..

 

[zeke]

I'm surprised he didn't come by earlier in the Winter, the Leaf Army could have used another Soldier..

it's nice at least that he's so interactif with other posters.

 

[riffle]

No, not calling you an idiot, just dishonest, cherry-picking Colorado is a perfect example of that.
It has as much relevance as me saying "check out the last two-time Stanley Cup champs and how they have faired in the playoffs since."

I cherry-picked by asking you to look at last year's President's trophy winner and then told you to keep looking at them? I think they're pretty germane to this discussion. You don't because looking there doesn't lead where you wish to go.

I'm neither an idiot nor dishonest.

The Leafs aren't likely to beat Tampa. Doesn't mean they won't but I guarantee if they do, you will act like I said it was impossible. No, I said it isn't likely. Make sure you have that right in case we get a series win this time.

 

[zeke]

I have to check - was March 17 the day the Isles were eliminated from the playoffs?

gotta be pretty close at least.

 

[JKG33]

Even though Pietrangelo looks terrible and the team is flopping since signing him while the Blues don't miss him even a little bit, some still wish we had traded away Nylander, the much better and younger player, so we could pay Pietro.

And they will yell and scream and hate the Leafs' franchise record roster because they think their own personal opinion is more important than facts.

Ah yes, the Blues that collapsed immediately after he left and only now after bringing in new young forwards are hitting their stride again.

But yes, the super soft one dimensional winger is far more important than a true #1 d-man. How could anyone think otherwise

 

[Warden of the North]

Neither Keefe or Dubas get fired.

Look at who theyre facing. Are they really "favourites" against Tampa? Its not their fault the Atlantic is a completely absurd division and this playoff format is stupid.

 

[All Mod Cons]

The never ending "one more year" will probably be the end result.

 

[JKG33]

Neither Keefe or Dubas get fired.

Look at who theyre facing. Are they really "favourites" against Tampa? Its not their fault the Atlantic is a completely absurd division and this playoff format is stupid.

No, but squandering the last 2-3 seasons certainly is their fault

 

[ACC1224]

Neither Keefe or Dubas get fired.

Look at who theyre facing. Are they really "favourites" against Tampa? Its not their fault the Atlantic is a completely absurd division and this playoff format is stupid.

Apparently it's the 3rd ranked team against the 9th ranked team so they should be heavy favourites.

Playoff format is stupid, no doubt.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Nope. Matthews winning the Rocket matters zero to me.

A quick check of the poll on what matters more... Auston hitting 60 or Leafs winning a series, shows 61-1 in favor of Leafs winning a series. I'm not rooting for Draisatl to win the Rocket. I simply don't care who wins.

Marner is my favorite player in the league. I don't care if he hits 100 points, or not. I must not be a fan because I don't care about personal accomplishments? He's my favorite player and I don't care about his point total. Just win a Cup.

You're missing the point. It's not about the rocket. It's about how Matthews breaking the goal record, likely winning back to back rockets is ignored. Matthews slumping for a few games where he doesn't score though is focused on.

You're focusing only on the negative. If you had a history of talking about Matthews good and bad it would be one thing. There's a poster with Matthews name in his username, he can be rough on the team and he sometimes even checks off a few of those boxes on that list I gave. They also post positive things, just sometimes in the heat of a game they get negative.

Matthews likely winning back to back rockets, and yet not even a positive comment? I mean you do you, but that's a strange thing for a fan to do.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Ah yes, the Blues that collapsed immediately after he left and only now after bringing in new young forwards are hitting their stride again.

But yes, the super soft one dimensional winger is far more important than a true #1 d-man. How could anyone think otherwise

I'd trade Nylander for a legit 1D no problem. Pietrangelo is no longer that and his contract is ugly if his game continues with the trajectory it's on right now. He's got a lot of miles on his body and he's not exactly a Lidstrom level IQ that can think his way around the problems that aging and injuries bring. You say good D don't fall off a cliff in their 30s but just look at Muzzin.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Neither Keefe or Dubas get fired.

Look at who theyre facing. Are they really "favourites" against Tampa? Its not their fault the Atlantic is a completely absurd division and this playoff format is stupid.

This is the most obvious answer imo. I doubt either is fired, and I'm not really sure they should be. I think Dubas overpaid a little on Marner and Tavares especially, but he's made up for that with some great signings too.

 

[JKG33]

I'd trade Nylander for a legit 1D no problem. Pietrangelo is no longer that and his contract is ugly if his game continues with the trajectory it's on right now. He's got a lot of miles on his body and he's not exactly a Lidstrom level IQ that can think his way around the problems that aging and injuries bring.

Agree to disagree about Pietrangelo. If he has another tough season sure. But that team is in such a mess, I'd imagine he returns back to normal once Vegas finds good health and NHL level coaching and goaltending

 

[Jojalu]

I think you've taken a truism of life and parsed it up with strawmen that are way off the subject.

Yes, Tampa's 3rd line is gone and it is worthy of discussion. Gourde was one of my favorite players in the league. Love that guy. Plays so hard. Wish the Leafs had him.

However, I asked you if you'd seen Nick Paul and what he's brought to that 3rd line? There's the pre-deadline version of Tampa and the post, same for us. Nick Paul has been great for them. Hagel, not so much, but we'll see how that line does vs. us in May. It may perform better than their old one, and it may perform worse.

I kind of expected someone to say... Shouldn't we expect Montreal to make it to the Cup, again, this season because they did last season? Their run was a one-off. There was no established pattern of behavior with Montreal. There is a very established pattern of behavior with Toronto. All these things said back to the truth of nothing predicts future behavior more than past behavior is done to not have to think about the truth of the statement. The fact that the truism is true about behavior doesn't mean the Leafs lose for sure. It only means that it shouldn't be viewed as being a bad fan if you think the Leafs are going to lose. That's where the smart money is. Why be upset for someone believing in something that is most likely to happen? I don't want it to happen, I just think it is likely.

EDIT: And, there's Deke's with the Montreal thing. That's fantastic.

Do you mean Tampa in the last week?

Since the deadline they have won 10 out of 18 games.

They got hot last week against two backup goalies.