Results over a significant current sample against a wide variety of teams with the roster of players that will be competing provides a better representation of the team's current quality and what to expect than a contextless past outcome from a small playoff sample against a different singular opponent with a roster of players largely different from what we have now. People like to wildly exaggerate the differences between regular season and playoff hockey in order to push false narratives.
Last chance for Dubas and or Keefe?
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PROUD PAPA
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- Sep 20, 2021
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I think just about anything is possible if we bow out again in the 1st round. Regardless of circumstances, losing in the 1st round 6 consecutive seasons is unacceptable. You can be certain that ownership won't be content with regular season success followed by immediate playoff failure. Nor should they be.
If the team was as good as I'm being told it is, then yes first round exits are unacceptable.
Even if I am cup or bust (and with a team as capped out as this, with the stars in their prime, they should be) I'd take even the slightest progress at this point, something they haven't even managed.
I never wanted Keefe or Dubas to begin with, and neither have shown anything in the playoffs to prove me wrong. So 1.5 years is still 1.5 years too long (even longer in Dubas' case)
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riffle
Registered User
You have a hard time with what actually happens vs. what you hope/wish happens.
Tell me... What happened in the season Tampa won the President's trophy?
Tell me...What happened in the last two seasons where Tampa didn't win the President's trophy?
Would you care to rephrase your previous post, or just ignore the questions and respond with some kind of spin that isn't germane to the discussion at hand?
keonsbitterness
Registered User
What did constant Washington Capitals playoff failure mean to finally winning the Cup? No one had the Caps as anything close to a favourite the year they finally broke through.
Not that I'm necessarily predicting playoff success for the Leafs, but let's see it play out.
Oh to have the arrogance of 'my opinion is so correct that anyone who differs must be a troll.'
Attitudes like that are exactly why there's so much divide in the world these days
So Tampa's 3rd line of Coleman, Goudre, Goodrow will be the x-factor for them this year?
CDN24
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
- 3,748
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What is the quote about insanity -Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I don't know if he even had to split them up - just use home ice advantage to get them away from Danault line some of the time. That would have meant less minutes for them but probably more results. Vegas did the same thing- kept letting Stone and Pacioretty play against Danault. The result Stone didn't have a point in the series and Pacioretty scored 1 goal. What did cooper do differently in the finals. Game one he played his top line against the Suzuki line. Kucherov and Point had 3 points each and the added benefit MTl's most dangerous offensive line with Suzuki spent all night in their own end. Matchup's matter.
It should be pretty obvious why putting up the best regular season ever for this franchise would be a positive heading into the playoffs. We're a very good team, and the better you are, the better your chance to win.
It's an incredibly shitty spot for the team. They didn't win the playoff matches that they were supposed to win in the last 2 years to gain forgiveness if they come up short against the back to back cup winners. As far as how this is going to factor into who they let go in the organization - who the f*** know. My moneys on everybody staying.
Mike Jhonson was fired by Pens afer 1.5 years in 2015-2016. Rutherford(A veteran GM) didn't feel his team was trending in the right direction
Jhonson was 58–37–15
Hires Mike Sullivan and they win the Stanly Cup back to back years 2016-2017
Sullivan who was an assitant coach to Torts(a Stanly cup winner, Olympian) and assistant coach in the Olympics was already a assistant coach for the Pens
He wasn't some AHL coach needed a job, learned on the job.... Because to manage bunch of supertstars like Malkin and Crosby, you didn't just hand the keys to some AHLer. Not everyone is going to be John Cooper or Marc Crawford
There is only one way to see it. black and white. This will be the what 4 years out of first round out for Dubas?
Sheldon keefe will be 3rd?
Vegas fired Gallant 2 years after going to the finals
Montreal even fired their coach and GM after going to the finals
But hey, you know me. I must have a personal vandetta against Dubas and Keefe
That is true, Washington did "figure it out" seemingly at random only to immediately fall back to their old ways the following seasons. I wouldn't bet on the Leafs doing the same either, but I see your point
Have they done so much better than last regular season that it's enough to overshadow 5 years of playoff failure?
That's not rhetorical btw. For me it's a no but I'm sure your answer differs
So what you are saying is you are acting spoiled because you didn't get what you wanted.
I am not a Keefe or Dunas apoligist and I really could care less if Keefe stays or goes but I do 100% believe Dubas has done enough to stick around.
You can't dismiss the chaos of the past two years. The Canadian teams all had a much tougher go than their American counterparts. That is not an excuse but a fact.
In that time Dubas has pretty much overhauled the entire team and in my opinion and the standings would back me up produced a much better team.
What could you possibly bitch about with this team besides Mrazek who has been injured for almost the entire year?
No argument from me on any of those points. A loss to Tampa in a vacuum isn't the end of the world. A loss to Tampa with this teams history is just more of the same and they're well past the point of no longer deserving a benefit of the doubt attitude
Gary Nylund
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2013
- 31,692
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Yeah we should wait for a corpse before doing the post mortem but who the f*** knows it probably the correct answer. It would be interesting to ponder what Marner would fetch in a trade though. I mean I know he's a great player and everything but the flip side to that coin is to ask one simple question - how many teams that have won the cup have done so without having Marner on their team? The answer of course is every single one of them.
riffle
Registered User
Nope. But, their 88 is still there. Have you paid any attention to what kind of contribution Nick Paul has made to that team post-deadline?
Here's a reminder:
That Washington analogy is a horrible one and I hear that all the time. You know Washington won a cup after so many years of Ovie failing in playoffs
Actually, Washington won multiple series before that. They were always trending up
They sent to semi finals multipe of times
We haven't even won a series in 20 years to give anyone benefit of the doubt
We had a lead 3-1 against the worse possible team
we played 5 games in our own areana to lose to Columbus
And Dubas/keefe still gets benefit of the doubt?
No, I'm not acting spoiled. Spoiled would be if I maintained this attitude despite Dubas and Keefe proving me wrong (which would be winning a few playoff rounds over the years). As it stands all they've done is prove me right for not wanting them to begin with.
Dubas still insists on filling the lineup with undersized forwards. There's still no #1D. There's still no #1G. The big 4 is still intact. There's few forwards in this group that play playoff style hockey.
Like I said. In normal circumstances there would be grounds for letting Keefe go. The pandemic bought him another kick at the can. Dubas probably more time.
Why does not winning a series in 20 years matter exactly? Our GM was a teengager when that streak started.
riffle
Registered User
I don't tear down the team. That is your perception. I question things that all of us have questions about.
Sure, I suppose a lot of the questions I pose and expound on are things you'd rather ignore, but doesn't mean you don't think about them like I do.
As for cheering for the team, that is a bad reframing of me based on questioning things. You should see me during a game. My young daughter is now a Marner fan in the most casual sense. Bought her a pink Leafs jersey that arrived just the other day. My family knows I love the Leafs. Hard to miss that fact given all my Leafs attire that I wear all the time.
Sorry, I don't experience the Leafs the way you want me to but at least I have the part about cheering for them down.
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