Last chance for Dubas and or Keefe?

[Buds17]

Although I'm not convinced that either receives the axe in the event of such a scenario, I do think there's a case to be made for the dismissal of either/both. The current team essentially belongs to Dubas, in terms of either acquisition or contract. It only seems fair to attribute a certain amount of any success or failure to him. Keefe has also been a Dubas hire on a number of occasions now, and all bets can tend to be off where coaching is concerned once a new GM is in place.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I feel like anyone with eyes would see that this team should be having more success in the playoffs. At some point, players wilting in the post season is a player problem, and trades need to happen.

I think Dubas has at least 1 more year of leash no matter what happens.

After this year and next, we enter the existential crisis of our once young core reaching UFA. That's when I could see a big organizational shift.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

It's actually called toxic negativity and pessimism. It is not "very unlikely" that the Leafs beat Tampa. It's a nice even matchup that should be a lot of fun. If we do lose, that's something you deal with and discuss in the offseason, not before the series even starts.

Its frustrating because people just bet against the team to be right. It's hard to win a cup, so betting against it is easy and you're almost always proven "right".

 

[Dekes For Days]

No, it's based on losing FIVE series in a row

The past is the past, and most of those teams are very different from what we're taking into the playoffs now. This may come as a shock to you, but winning in past years doesn't provide a bonus in this year's playoffs, and losing in past years doesn't provide a handicap in this year's playoffs.

Jack vs. Vasilevskiy? C'mon, man. C'mon. Even?

I said that it should be a nice even matchup overall. I didn't say that their goalie was equal quality. Though a goalie's sustainable quality and how a goalie performs over a particular 7-game sample can vary quite considerably.

None of this changes the fact that offseason discussions are for the offseason. This is the time for any fan to be excited for the playoffs; not talk about firing everybody and blowing up the best Leaf team ever assembled.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

No, it's based on losing FIVE series in a row and the pattern that is well-established from our stars that they can't get it done in deciding games.

Jack vs. Vasilevskiy? C'mon, man. C'mon. Even? LOL Everyone will tell you that your goalie is the most important person on the ice in the playoffs, and the Leafs have anything but "a nice even matchup" in that category.

Hope is fun. I get it. Experience and vision are important to consider and I have.

If you wanted positivity, you picked the wrong team and the wrong fanbase. I wish you'd been alive in the John Wooden era and were a UCLA basketball fan. That was the time and team for you.

Why are you cheering a team on to lose? This team is 4th in the NHL, betting against any team winning is the easy bet. If you don't like the team, why are you even here?

 

[riffle]

The past is the past, and most of those teams are very different from what we're taking into the playoffs now. This may come as a shock to you, but winning in past years doesn't provide a bonus in this year's playoffs, and losing in past years doesn't provide a handicap in this year's playoffs.

I said that it should be a nice even matchup overall. I didn't say that their goalie was equal quality. Though a goalie's sustainable quality and how a goalie performs over a particular 7-game sample can vary quite considerably.

None of this changes the fact that offseason discussions are for the offseason. This is the time for any fan to be excited for the playoffs; not talk about firing everybody and blowing up the best Leaf team ever assembled.

This may come as a shock to you but do you know what the most predictive thing in the world is for future behavior? Past behavior.

Yes, everything is all 0-0. Season starts anew, and all that. Yup. True. The past is also true and unchangeable. And, is the most predictive thing for the future. I hope the Leafs win. I want the Leafs to win. I don't think they will.

 

[Morgs]

If after the best season the Leafs have had since the 90s teams despite awful or injured goaltending for the vast majority leads you to believe Keefe or Dubas should be fired, I think you should go back to the Habs or Oilers board. Nobody is perfect, but those two guys have been outstanding. Dubas has built a contender with outstanding depth behind what was left to him. Keefe has turned this team into one of the most (if not the most) balanced teams in the league. Not like they can go out there and put skates on.

For me success this year is a must, but I also understand for us to get out of both round 1 and 2 we're likely going to have to beat two top-7 teams to do it. It's crazy but if we somehow get out of the Atlantic bloodbath, we're likely to be the favourites in both the Conf and Cup finals as the only other teams I think that match up to us are Carolina, Calgary, and Colorado.

I'll revisit wanting to see a big trade come after playoffs, but there's about a 0% chance I'd be calling for anyone in management's head regardless of the outcome. They have set this tram up for success. It's on the players to actually go out and do it.

 

[zeke]

Why are you cheering a team on to lose? This team is 4th in the NHL, betting against any team winning is the easy bet. If you don't like the team, why are you even here?

It might be something to do with the fact that this "New Leafs Poster" for some reason only decided to sign up for this Leafs site 1 month ago, with the Leafs on the verge of a franchise record season, with the only apparent purpose to post negative BS and ignore all responses correcting his "mistakes" in order to keep provoking more responses with yet more "mistaken" claims.

Strange stuff. I wish there was a name for that kind of behavior.

 

[JKG33]

What will happen? Not a damn thing, another 1st rd exit will be business as usual in Leaf Land. The Dubas apologists will have another in the long list of excuses, going from getting "goalied" (I can't even type that with a straight face) to losing to the 2x defending champs. All is well with Kyle's regular season juggernaut.

In reality they both should've been gone after last playoffs. Losses to Columbus and Montreal are unacceptable. Bring in a veteran GM that knows how to win (Lombardi or Shero, I wanted Rutherford before) and let him have the pick of a new coach (Torts would be great).

 

[Gabriel426]

How much a thread that says, what if the Leafs win the Cup, would Dubas and Keefe get a new contract from MLSE and statues next to Legend Row?

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

It might be something to do with the fact that this "New Leafs Poster" for some reason only decided to sign up for this Leafs site 1 month ago, with the Leafs on the verge of a franchise record season, with the only apparent purpose to post negative BS and ignore all responses correcting his "mistakes" in order to keep provoking more responses with yet more "mistaken" claims.

Strange stuff. I wish there was a name for that kind of behavior.

It's just pathetic. Other boards don't put up with this nonsense.

 

[riffle]

Why are you cheering a team on to lose? This team is 4th in the NHL, betting against any team winning is the easy bet. If you don't like the team, why are you even here?

This kind of question and reasoning is as tired as it is not well contemplated.

Indulge me for one second, but that question is very similar to the boss who stands up and says... You don't like it...there's the door. This kind of thinking/statement is an insulator vs. feedback/criticism. It is crying for help to be left unchallenged, because in the challenging you may have to confront actual real issues that need addressing that you either can't or won't (or both) address. It is lazy, wrong, and ridiculous and is not something that comes out of a real leader's mouth.

In a similar fashion this kind of question is along the exact same lines of thinking.

All of us know that NOTHING is guaranteed when it comes to sporting competition. You always know an upset is a possibility. If you didn't, sports would lose most, if not all of its charm.

I know that I don't know what is going to happen...for sure. That is why I watch. That has nothing to do with the concept of understanding what has happened with this team in the past is most likely to happen this time, also, especially given the disparity in goaltending. And, the pedigree of back-to-back champions vs. a team known for losing in the playoffs. There is not much to be hanging your hat on here, and that isn't even mentioning the Leafs best goal scorer is mired in a 5-game slump, the longest of his season, and might be hurt more than we know.

If you want to fool yourself into thinking this is a flip of the coin, you're welcome to that, but I don't share in that and have expressed why.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I'm obviously too important to vote in any internet poll, but the answer is no one. There has been no indication from the usual sources that anyone is in any danger of termination in case of a first-round loss.

Different story a year from now when Matthews and Nylander become eligible to negotiate new contracts July 1, 2023. Upper management will have to decide if they want Dubas to handle that.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This may come as a shock to you but do you know what the most predictive thing in the world is for future behavior? Past behavior.

Not as much as some people seem to think, if "past behaviour" actually means looking exclusively at small sample playoff series outcomes with no context from versions of the team as much as 5 years old that were quite different.

The more representative and relevant "past behaviour" would be the results we've seen over this season, which have been extremely good.

And again, whether you think we'll win is irrelevant. It doesn't change that offseason discussions are for the offseason. This is the time for any fan to be excited for the playoffs; not talk about firing everybody and blowing up the best Leaf team ever assembled.

 

[TheDoldrums]

No ones fired, Nylander traded regardless of how he plays though

 

[JKG33]

Not as much as some people seem to think if "past behaviour" actually refers to looking exclusively at small sample playoff series outcomes with no context from versions of the team as much as 5 years old that were quite different.

The more representative and relevant "past behaviour" would be the results we've seen over this season, which have been extremely good.

And again, whether you think we'll win is irrelevant. It doesn't change that offseason discussions are for the offseason. This is the time for any fan to be excited for the playoffs; not talk about firing everybody and blowing up the best Leaf team ever assembled.

What? This recent "past behavior" you refer to as a successful regular season means nothing. The two previous regular season were great as well, and they followed both up by laying massive turds come playoff time when it matters. What have they shown this regular season that makes you think these playoffs will go any differently, against their hardest playoff opponent yet?

 

[ACC1224]

No ones fired, Nylander traded regardless of how he plays though

Interesting, I've thought that too.
Brave of you for saying, be prepared to be labelled.

 

[JKG33]

Interesting, I've thought that too.
Brave of you for saying, be prepared to be labelled.

I'm not of the belief of trading Nylander for the sake of it, he's one of the few clowns actually worth his cap hit.

But if you can bring in a Schenn or Wilson or Tuch or some other top 6 winger that plays a winning style of hockey, you do that without hesitation

 

[Dekes For Days]

This recent "past behavior" you refer to as a successful regular season means nothing.

Except that's not true. Whatever value you want to give it, it has more representative value for the present than past playoff series outcomes.

 

[ACC1224]

I'm not of the belief of trading Nylander for the sake of it, he's one of the few clowns actually worth his cap hit.

But if you can bring in a Schenn or Wilson or Tuch or some other top 6 winger that plays a winning style of hockey, you do that without hesitation

No of course not. He has tremendous value at his price and would garner a decent return.

 

[riffle]

Not as much as some people seem to think, if "past behaviour" actually means looking exclusively at small sample playoff series outcomes with no context from versions of the team as much as 5 years old that were quite different.

The more representative and relevant "past behaviour" would be the results we've seen over this season, which have been extremely good.

And again, whether you think we'll win is irrelevant. It doesn't change that offseason discussions are for the offseason. This is the time for any fan to be excited for the playoffs; not talk about firing everybody and blowing up the best Leaf team ever assembled.

Just my opinion but you're playing bait and switch with yourself.

Results over this season are irrelevant. You are comparing apples to oranges. Playoff hockey is different. The direct and correct comparison is playoffs to playoffs...not regular season to being predictive of playoffs.

I'm sure you were thinking the Leafs surely would beat the 18th team in the NHL after finishing 1st in the Canadian division last season? That loss goes into the past behavior IN THE PLAYOFFS column. You're trying cross pollinate columns in the Excel spreadsheet. Never do that.

The Leafs winning the Canadian division didn't predict a win in the series against the Habs. Past playoff behavior proved to be more predictive, as the Leafs lost another playoff series.

 

[JKG33]

Except that's not true. Whatever value you want to give it, it has more representative value for the present than past playoff series outcomes.

How does this, another business as usual regular season, have a positive indicator for playoff success? When we've seen the same thing two previous years that led to playoff failure

 

[IPS]

If the Leafs lose this series it will be 6 straight first round losses. 3 since Keefe took over and 4 since Dubas took over. What happens if they lose?

Cool we're just letting anti-Leafs main board trolls start up bullshit threads on our board now?

 

[Jojalu]

What will happen? Not a damn thing, another 1st rd exit will be business as usual in Leaf Land. The Dubas apologists will have another in the long list of excuses, going from getting "goalied" (I can't even type that with a straight face) to losing to the 2x defending champs. All is well with Kyle's regular season juggernaut.

In reality they both should've been gone after last playoffs. Losses to Columbus and Montreal are unacceptable. Bring in a veteran GM that knows how to win (Lombardi or Shero, I wanted Rutherford before) and let him have the pick of a new coach (Torts would be great).

This is nonsense. You say the team is garbage and not built correctly than how can you be surprised or use the word inacceptable.

No coach is getting fired after 1.5 years. Eapecially both being pandemic years.

As forvyour excuse arguement, it simply doesn't hold water. There are hundreds of variables that go into a season/playoff run. Just because you choose to see black/white in terms of wins/losses doesn't make it the only explaination.

Everyone knows you are Cup or bust. That is not realistic and no one will be held to those standards. It's insanity to think otherwise

 

[zeke]

Cool we're just letting anti-Leafs main board trolls start up bullshit threads on our board now?

Of course. But if you point it out you will be infracted so be careful.