Last chance for Dubas and or Keefe?

[The Blueprint]

If after the best season the Leafs have had since the 90s teams despite awful or injured goaltending for the vast majority leads you to believe Keefe or Dubas should be fired, I think you should go back to the Habs or Oilers board. Nobody is perfect, but those two guys have been outstanding. Dubas has built a contender with outstanding depth behind what was left to him. Keefe has turned this team into one of the most (if not the most) balanced teams in the league. Not like they can go out there and put skates on.

For me success this year is a must, but I also understand for us to get out of both round 1 and 2 we're likely going to have to beat two top-7 teams to do it. It's crazy but if we somehow get out of the Atlantic bloodbath, we're likely to be the favourites in both the Conf and Cup finals as the only other teams I think that match up to us are Carolina, Calgary, and Colorado.

I'll revisit wanting to see a big trade come after playoffs, but there's about a 0% chance I'd be calling for anyone in management's head regardless of the outcome. They have set this tram up for success. It's on the players to actually go out and do it.

This should be stickied and everyone forced to read. If any changes are made after the season it's to the players, imo.

Dubas, and to a lesser extent Keefe, have done a great job assembling a competitive team with a good funnel of talent coming. Tampa and FLA are as close to all in as possible. We have a chance to make multiple runs with cheap talent on the way.

It's up to the players now. Management has done their part.

(Am worried about goaltending though)

 

[zeke]

We'll get the usual 4 weeks of peace and quiet if we lose in the 1st round and then we'll start the cycle all over again of advanced stats and "this is the best team we've ever had".

Love hearing you call the embarasing four month temper tantrum last summer "peace and quiet".

 

[All Mod Cons]

Hahaha indeed. One of the first posts after losing game 7 to MTL was Zeke who called "the worst loss in franchise history", then he disappeared for a while and then came back to continue posting "advanced" stats showing what a great team we have. You can't make this stuff up, it's all in the archives if anyone finds this to be beyond belief.


You want context but you fail to mention that we were massive favourites going in to that series and should have won without Matthews, never mind Tavares.


Before the playoff losses started piling up, most people were saying we comparing us to Chicago - a dynasty in the making. Then after a while it became Washington - just have patience, look how long it took WSH to break through.

Yep. Every offseason, like clockwork.

Expected stats showing Holl was twice the player Hedman was this series.

 

[zeke]

When is it exactly that you think the expected stats disappear?

 

[Leaf Fans]

If this opinion is from a decade and a half ago sure. That might be too recent even, 2 decades back maybe.

Yeah, it fits for both those time periods and for today.

 

[zeke]

It's funny but these posts are the only ones seeming to be angry and whiny in the thread.
Could just be my perception though.

heh COULD BE!

 

[zeke]

The irony really is quite ridiculous.

I have a feeling there are some here who are just bookmarking posts and waiting to say “I told you so!” when we finally do have success rather than enjoying a championship. I wouldn’t be surprised if that gives them more enjoyment than the actual winning.

You don’t have to love everything about this team to be a fan. Apparently that’s not good enough for some self-proclaimed “diehards” however. At the end of the day, we all just want to see this team win. Even the biggest Dubas critics.

Irony would be you continuing your years-long pooping on other posters in this very same post you accuse them of being mean to you.

Maybe just maybe stop shitting on the posters who aren't surprised by this (2nd consecutive tbh) franchise record season when you were predicting them to be a bubble team on their way down? Maybe stop pretending that the youngsters having some playoffs flops means you guys have always been right about how good the team is? Maybe have just a tiny dose of humility and look at this year's and last year's results being far, far better than you imagined they would be and maybe reconsider some of your previously held beliefs?

or don't, and spend your time on the eve of the playoffs after a franchise record season whining about blowing up the entire management and team and complaining that other posters might call you out on what you said. get your kicks however way you want.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yep. Every offseason, like clockwork.

Expected stats showing Holl was twice the player Hedman was this series.

Judging expected players by these expected stats at times leads some people to the most ridiculous conclusions. Funny how they always seems to show stuff like the bolded - "look how awesome we are."

 

[robertmac43]

I think the nature in which the Leafs are eliminated will play a role in the consequences. If they go 7 and lose in a close battle, I don't think anyone gets fired but there is a major trade to shake things up.

If they get swept or killed in 5 then the door is open for any kind of firings/trades IMO.

 

[zeke]

If they get swept or killed in 5

good news is that this has never come close to happening to them. doesn't mean it won't, of course, and if it does that would be pretty frickin bad.

 

[robertmac43]

good news is that this has never come close to happening to them. doesn't mean it won't, of course, and if it does that would be pretty frickin bad.

I don't see it happening either. TBH I'm fairly optimistic going into these playoffs and think the story may be different than years past.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think the nature in which the Leafs are eliminated will play a role in the consequences. If they go 7 and lose in a close battle, I don't think anyone gets fired but there is a major trade to shake things up.

If they get swept or killed in 5 then the door is open for any kind of firings/trades IMO.

Or if we show lack of compete and get dominated in game 7.

 

[Mess]

The Circle of Life in emotional seasons in a Leaf fans World.

The regular season is for unbridled Optimism proclaiming everything is wonderful.
The playoff season is when Realism sets in and Leafs depart early again.
The offseason is when Pessimism rules the roost, when the autopsy begins after another embarrassing loss after what seemed so promising going in.

Then Leafs draft a few guys and sign a few guys and the cycle begins all over again, as a new season starts.

The only way this painful cycle changes for Leaf nation is if the team mercifully finds playoff success with this management team, or if not get someone in here that can.

Time for excuses is over either put up or shut up... You can't keep rinsing and repeating and doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results because that is the definition of insanity.

 

[Jojalu]

Hahaha indeed. One of the first posts after losing game 7 to MTL was Zeke who called "the worst loss in franchise history", then he disappeared for a while and then came back to continue posting "advanced" stats showing what a great team we have. You can't make this stuff up, it's all in the archives if anyone finds this to be beyond belief.


You want context but you fail to mention that we were massive favourites going in to that series and should have won without Matthews, never mind Tavares.


Before the playoff losses started piling up, most people were saying we comparing us to Chicago - a dynasty in the making. Then after a while it became Washington - just have patience, look how long it took WSH to break through.

So what exactly did Zeke say that was wrong?

It was a horrible loss and the Leafs were a really good team that had a horrible 3 games.

Not sure why you can't understand that really good teams can still lose. Not always in spectacular fashoon like the Leafs bit not a single person can honestly say the Leafs didn't outplay the Habs for most of game 5 and 6 but couldn't score. Especially the top line.

 

[zeke]

I don't see it happening either. TBH I'm fairly optimistic going into these playoffs and think the story may be different than years past.

i'm always optimistic with this squad that has the talent to beat anyone.

but holy frick am i nervous having to play the fricken back to back champs in round fricken 1.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't see it happening either. TBH I'm fairly optimistic going into these playoffs and think the story may be different than years past.

Me too.

 

[robertmac43]

Or if we show lack of compete and get dominated in game 7.

Yeah I could see a dud of an elimination game pushing management/front office to push for more change

 

[robertmac43]

i'm always optimistic with this squad that has the talent to beat anyone.

but holy frick am i nervous having to play the fricken back to back champs in round fricken 1.

Oh man, it's going to be a stressful time for sure! I still don't get how fans make it through 4 rounds of playoffs lol

 

[ACC1224]

Or if we show lack of compete and get dominated in game 7.

Keefe won't survive that, IMO.

 

[zeke]

So what exactly did Zeke say that was wrong?

It was a horrible loss and the Leafs were a really good team that had a horrible 3 games.

Not sure why you can't understand that really good teams can still lose. Not always in spectacular fashoon like the Leafs bit not a single person can honestly say the Leafs didn't outplay the Habs for most of game 5 and 6 but couldn't score. Especially the top line.

who are you responding to?

I can't see anything.

that's weird - if you are responding to someone that i've been force-blocked from seeing (because i've never blocked anyone voluntarily), that means they've been force-blocked from seeing my posts too - which means this guy must be logging out to see my posts and then logging back in to respond to them. cute.

and what is he saying i said about the last loss? I've consistently blamed our elite players for choking against the Habs, for the record. We're never going to win a series where Auston, Mitch, and Tavares combine for 1 goal.

 

[zeke]

The regular season is for unbridled Optimism proclaiming everything is wonderful.

Do you even read this board? or your own posts?

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

Even if the Leafs get bounced in the 1st round, I don't see Dubas or Keefe getting fired. Especially in a year where the Leafs set so many franchise records. I only see Keefe being fired if its a lopsided sweep by the Bolts.

Dubas is a damn good GM (yes he has his faults and I've been hard on him after the loss to the Habs), but the fact that he's been able to field a competitive team for so many years especially while being handicapped with the Big 4's salaries is quite impressive. I think we'll regret it if we fired Dubas. He'll be hired immediately else where and be successful right away. No doubt in my mind.

 

[ACC1224]

Oh man, it's going to be a stressful time for sure! I still don't get how fans make it through 4 rounds of playoffs lol

I can still recall how insanely intense the 3 rounds in 99 and 2002 were, can't wait to experience the 4th round.
Spent a fortune but it was so worth it, can't imagine what this year will cost.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So what exactly did Zeke say that was wrong?

It was a horrible loss and the Leafs were a really good team that had a horrible 3 games.

Not sure why you can't understand that really good teams can still lose. Not always in spectacular fashoon like the Leafs bit not a single person can honestly say the Leafs didn't outplay the Habs for most of game 5 and 6 but couldn't score. Especially the top line.

I agree it was the worst loss in franchise history, that's not wrong IMHO.

I don't agree with the conclusions he draws from advanced stats, I think it's clear that he has a bias because he always seems to choose the stats that show the Leafs in a positive light and ignore anything that doesn't. He's an extreme homer and while there's nothing wrong that, it's just makes sense to keep that in mind whenever reading his posts. JMHO.

Good teams lose all the time, what's not to understand? The thing that annoys me is that year after year, we save some of worst hockey for game 7. Zeke called our players "choking dogs". That's a direct quote and while I wouldn't go that far myself, when a team makes a habit of not showing up for game 7, it's hard to expect the fans to be content because we have pretty "advanced" stats and we kicked ass in November or whatever.

Keefe won't survive that, IMO.

Easiest change to make is always to fire the coach.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Irony would be you continuing your years-long pooping on other posters in this very same post you accuse them of being mean to you.

Maybe just maybe stop shitting on the posters who aren't surprised by this (2nd consecutive tbh) franchise record season when you were predicting them to be a bubble team on their way down? Maybe stop pretending that the youngsters having some playoffs flops means you guys have always been right about how good the team is? Maybe have just a tiny dose of humility and look at this year's and last year's results being far, far better than you imagined they would be and maybe reconsider some of your previously held beliefs?

or don't, and spend your time on the eve of the playoffs after a franchise record season whining about blowing up the entire management and team and complaining that other posters might call you out on what you said. get your kicks however way you want.

See, you are exactly the type of poster I was referring too. Did you “humble” yourself when the Leafs choked again last year? No, you just disappeared and then came back to tell us all how wrong we are about the team when the heat died off. And great, they’ve had an excellent regular season. We all want to see playoff success. I’m hopeful this is the year.

You’re a total hypocrite. Thanks for proving my point.