Last chance for Dubas and or Keefe?

[keonsbitterness]

The best time to fix a mistake is before you make one in the first place.

That means Dubas & Keefe shouldn't be fired, they simply shouldn't have been hired in the first place, unqualified to lead a fortune 500 company for a big market team where money is no option and management is not salary cap committed. You can hire the best available talent to run the organization, and bring in the most talented and experienced, with a track record of past Cup success.

Had the Leafs retained Lou Lam after drafted franchise #1C Auston Matthews and given him more then 2 years thereafter while ending on a franchise best 105 points. we might have seen him hire Barry Trotz for Toronto.. Then he might have been named Exec of the year 2 X is an row as Leafs GM, while Trotz may have taken the Leafs to the final 4 overall appearances and almost certainly not embarrassed the Leafs organization with losses to CBJ and Montreal while Leafs youth in management go through their own rookie/greenhorn learning curves.

Trotz did that with a team in NYI that has far less talent then the Leafs do , and just lost their franchise center Tavares to UFA to boot.

So this a big prove year for Leafs management both GM and coach to show moving on from HHOF management, was the correct move despite the inexperience and the struggles they have shown the past 3 years. That is the only way the end justifies the means, as Leafs almost certainly wouldn't be sitting here still trying to win a first round series. IMO

So your solution is to build a time machine. Great plan.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I think most would like to be proven wrong.

I am sure some would, though not all, or they will make that claim if they are proven wrong.

 

[Mess]

Shirley you can see the irony in those mocking the few for being wrong in their views when those finally right have been wrong themselves for what seems like forever.

Everyone wants them to win.

Spot on the irony is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

Its the long time die hard Leafs fans that are starving for playoff success, while those that claim everything is great, year after year, making excuses for everything that went wrong, that are so full of eating crow annually for being wrong that they are the ones that often disappear after each embarrassing playoff loss.

Remarkably there are some that honestly believe it would matter more to see the GM and Coach fired then to celebrate a Leafs Cup win and really couldn't care less who is in the pressbox.

You and I ACC have been on this message board for 20+ years and counting since 2002, while cheering on our Leafs and haven't gone away despite for the last 18 years since 2004, our Leafs haven't won a single playoff round, and missed the playoffs more then they made them.

That is dedication, and suddenly winning of all things is suppose to get those scurrying away that have been critical of the teams failures of the past decades, in hopes losing is turned into winning, which is the prime objective of the criticism when things are going wrong.

 

[notbias]

You see, this is what I hate. This team and management group have not earned any benefit of the doubt. Last year they had a golden opportunity and they choked it away. It's not like this team has a history of winning series and going far. Why should we give them an excuse?

"Last year they had a golden opportunity and they choked it away."

why does no one talk about how they got to game 7 missing their captain and PPG center for the whole series?

It's so silly to pretend like this series was played completely even, they probably sweep with Tavares in the lineup.

They lost, it wasn't good, they probably should have still won, but removing context is silly.

 

[justloveleafs]

Wow, some weird stuff written. Maybe we can all agree this has been a great regular season? Playoffs?

No one gets paid in the playoffs right?

Which is weird enough in itself?

Pandemic, and first year we don't hear about Arizona going bankrupt?

That is weird as well right?

Playoffs? That is when it really gets weird.... So keep watching lol.

Guy Lafleur and Mike Bossy dead within two weeks? Hmm now that is a bit weird...

 

[Prominence]

Wow, some weird stuff written. Maybe we can all agree this has been a great regular season? Playoffs?

No one gets paid in the playoffs right?

Which is weird enough in itself?

Pandemic, and first year we don't hear about Arizona going bankrupt?

That is weird as well right?

Playoffs? That is when it really gets weird.... So keep watching lol.

Guy Lafleur and Mike Bossy dead within two weeks? Hmm now that is a bit weird...

Arizona may not be bankrupt, but the fact that they have to play in a college stadium in front of 3.3k fans (and that’s if they can actually sell out an entire “stadium”) does not bode well especially when the rest of the league is subsidizing them AND their owner tried to not pay the venders as he thought he was not obligated to.

 

[Buds17]

"Last year they had a golden opportunity and they choked it away."

why does no one talk about how they got to game 7 missing their captain and PPG center for the whole series?

It's so silly to pretend like this series was played completely even, they probably sweep with Tavares in the lineup.

They lost, it wasn't good, they probably should have still won, but removing context is silly.

Muzzin's injury took its toll on the team as well. To an extent, injuries are both a valid explanation for that series loss while also being an unfortunate part of the game. As such, I don't find it at all coincidental that certain areas of the team have since been fortified with depth. Here's to hoping that the team is either more fortunate or better prepared in that department this time around.

 

[nuck]

I have an idea how I think another first round loss should play out but there are heroic losses and there are gagging chokes. Simply not winning doesnt tell us what the level of play might actually be and that is what ownership would be looking at, assuming they havent already decided its now or never. Its not really a black or white question and maybe the deciding factor is what is identified as the key to a loss. I don't think Dubas can sacrifice Keefe as the reason for a loss, they stay or go as a package.

Right now its hard to talk about the next failure when I am so preoccupid with how they might blow through Tampa. I think they will do it and this thread becomes a dead end.

 

[saffronleaf]

I would love to feel that awkwardness. I would love for fans to tell me, Fahad(that's me) you were wrong about Dubas and Keefe. You have no idea what you are talking about. If we win few rounds, you can call me little suzzy, you can make fun of me if at will.

I am happy to feel that way.

Fun fact
Out of all Canadian team not named Ottawa. We are the only Canadian team not to make it to 2nd round in two years(I am including qualifying games)

Everyone one of those teams including the Stanly Cup finalist, Montreal, have a new coaches and in case of Montreal have GM and coach

Our standards are so low, that if there's a team in this league tolerates and supports medicority it's us. That we are ok, keeping Dubas and Keefe just because of regular season results and how good the team looks

Teams like Floriday has leap frogged us because of moves their GMs' made. Calgary few years ago didn't even make the playoffs and now looking like a contender because of new coaching. Rangers looking like an upcoming team because of coaching

I don't know what the record is for a team to keep making the playoffs and not win a round. We haven't won a round in 6 years but it's ok. No changes is neccessary

I hope to be made fun of. I really do. I hope I feel that awkwardness

I was ok until Montreal.

- 2017 - capitals - great year regardless of result
- 2018 - bruins - ok bruins were favored and we took it to game 7; young team
- 2019 - bruins - really stings, had the lead in the series going into game 6, first really disappointing result. but I was back on board especially once Babcock was let go early next season.
- 2020 - BJs - stings again, but the covid bubble playoff was really messed up anyways, I give them a pass
- 2021 - ... how. no excuses.

 

[saffronleaf]

"Last year they had a golden opportunity and they choked it away."

why does no one talk about how they got to game 7 missing their captain and PPG center for the whole series?

It's so silly to pretend like this series was played completely even, they probably sweep with Tavares in the lineup.

They lost, it wasn't good, they probably should have still won, but removing context is silly.

The Leafs should have easily won without Tavares. They won three games in a row without him. Galchenyuk with a bone-headed pass; Dermott with his damn twirl; and the entire team not showing up in game 7. There's no excusing away the Habs series. The Leafs need to redeem themselves. And they will.

 

[IPS]

"Last year they had a golden opportunity and they choked it away."

why does no one talk about how they got to game 7 missing their captain and PPG center for the whole series?

It's so silly to pretend like this series was played completely even, they probably sweep with Tavares in the lineup.

They lost, it wasn't good, they probably should have still won, but removing context is silly.

Because everybody loves to compare us with Tampa and say that's who we're building after. Well Tampa won it all without Stamkos their entire playoff run in 2020. If you wanna compare the team to Tampa, then they better do Tampa shit.

 

[IPS]

edit: delete

 

[Gary Nylund]

The chest thumpimg we are " elite" crowd disappear after every playoff loss only to resurface with why we should have won stats

Hahaha indeed. One of the first posts after losing game 7 to MTL was Zeke who called "the worst loss in franchise history", then he disappeared for a while and then came back to continue posting "advanced" stats showing what a great team we have. You can't make this stuff up, it's all in the archives if anyone finds this to be beyond belief.

"Last year they had a golden opportunity and they choked it away."

why does no one talk about how they got to game 7 missing their captain and PPG center for the whole series?

It's so silly to pretend like this series was played completely even, they probably sweep with Tavares in the lineup.

They lost, it wasn't good, they probably should have still won, but removing context is silly.

You want context but you fail to mention that we were massive favourites going in to that series and should have won without Matthews, never mind Tavares.

Because everybody loves to compare us with Tampa and say that's who we're building after. Well Tampa won it all without Stamkos their entire playoff run in 2020. If you wanna compare the team to Tampa, then they better do Tampa shit.

Before the playoff losses started piling up, most people were saying we comparing us to Chicago - a dynasty in the making. Then after a while it became Washington - just have patience, look how long it took WSH to break through.

 

[Mess]

You think Lou was planning to fire Babcock after the first Bruins loss? Wasn't he fitting that exact criteria you want of a proven cup winner with a record of success?

Lou Lam demands and expects winning and when it doesn't happen not afraid to change.

Remember back in 2007 when Lou was still with the Devils.

Devils, Perched in First, Dismiss Another Coach​

• April 3, 2007

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J., April 2 With the Devils in first place in their division and only three games to go in the regular season, General Manager Lou Lamoriello fired Coach Claude Julien on Monday and took the job. The move would be more bizarre if it were unprecedented.

Claude Julien guided the Devils to the second-best record in the Eastern Conference, posting a 47-24-8 mark with 102 points in his only season as coach.​

Standings and calendars have never meant much to Lamoriello, who fired Robbie Ftorek with eight games to play in 2000. The interim coach, Larry Robinson, led the Devils to the second of their three Stanley Cup championships.

“You don’t always judge by wins and losses as far as where you’re going and what you’re doing,” Lamoriello said.

“I don’t think that we’re at the point of being ready mentally to play the way that is necessary going into the playoffs,” Lamoriello said at Continental Arena. “I’m not saying that’s going to change, but there needs to be better focus going forward.”

Devils, Perched in First, Dismiss Another Coach (Published 2007)

General Manager Lou Lamoriello will replace Claude Julien on the New Jersey bench with less than a week to go in the regular season.

www.nytimes.com

If Lou wasn't happy with the results or the performance of the team, he wasn't afraid to make a coaching change.

If you're questioning Babcock after coming off a 1st round loss to Boston while the 3 Amigo were still in their 2nd seasons, then surely you can recognize the debacle and embarrassing losses of the CBJ and Mon losses under Keefe as being far worse coaching performances with a young core no longer teenagers.

Lou Lam never hesitated to hire Barry Trotz for the NYI only a few days after he won the Cup in Washington and was moving on. Why wouldn't he have done that for the Leafs if he believed it would improve Leafs chances under a better coach?. Lou Lam has won 6 playoff rounds, and been named exec of the year twice since leaving the Leafs, while Dubas and Keefe are still trying to win a single round.

 

[Pi]

I was ok until Montreal.

- 2017 - capitals - great year regardless of result
- 2018 - bruins - ok bruins were favored and we took it to game 7; young team
- 2019 - bruins - really stings, had the lead in the series going into game 6, first really disappointing result. but I was back on board especially once Babcock was let go early next season.
- 2020 - BJs - stings again, but the covid bubble playoff was really messed up anyways, I give them a pass
- 2021 - ... how. no excuses.

Yeah, I am in the same boat. I do not forgive this team for the loss against Montreal and I am indifferent until they prove they can win but at the same time, I don't think you fire a coach or GM that has led to the best season the Leafs have ever played in their 100+ year history just because they lose to the back to back champs.

I feel optimistic that they have had enough of losing whether it be justified or not and will do everything in their power to right that wrong.

If we are the first team to beat a team that no one has beaten for 2 years and 8 rounds, that will be enough for me to wash over their past failures.

As much as I love Matthews and Marner, they along with Freddie's goaltending are the biggest reason we lose in the playoffs. We've been goalied against Columbus and Montreal. They need to find that next gear and still be good even when the goalie is playing great.

They just need to break through and have a series where they are above PPG.

 

[Duke16]

I will be far less reactionary to this outcome.

Losing series' to Columbus and Montreal are far more disappointing, but now the Leafs have put themselves in a spot where they might need to defeat a two-time Cup Champ and borderline President's Trophy calibre team for everyone to keep their jobs/the group to stay together.

 

[MLSE]

We're playing the Lightning.

I think Dubas is doing a good job building the team and won't judge him or Keefe if we lose to the Champs.

We have a great team that can compete, I think we are even better next year.

If we beat the Lightning, more power to us but I am not holding it against them just yet if we lose this year.

 

[blueberrie]

The fact this thread has 17 pages a week before playoffs start is so pathetic lmao. Only Leaf fans could be in such a hurry to cry and get angry about a playoff loss before the series even starts.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

I think Lou is an very good GM.

If this opinion is from a decade and a half ago sure. That might be too recent even, 2 decades back maybe.

 

[ACC1224]

We're playing the Lightning.

I think Dubas is doing a good job building the team and won't judge him or Keefe if we lose to the Champs.

We have a great team that can compete, I think we are even better next year.

If we beat the Lightning, more power to us but I am not holding it against them just yet if we lose this year.

Keefe looked in over his head against Columbus and Montreal. What if this happens again?

 

[ACC1224]

The fact this thread has 17 pages a week before playoffs start is so pathetic lmao. Only Leaf fans could be in such a hurry to cry and get angry about a playoff loss before the series even starts.

It's funny but these posts are the only ones seeming to be angry and whiny in the thread.
Could just be my perception though.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Shirley you can see the irony in those mocking the few for being wrong in their views when those finally right have been wrong themselves for what seems like forever.

Everyone wants them to win.

The irony really is quite ridiculous.

I have a feeling there are some here who are just bookmarking posts and waiting to say “I told you so!” when we finally do have success rather than enjoying a championship. I wouldn’t be surprised if that gives them more enjoyment than the actual winning.

You don’t have to love everything about this team to be a fan. Apparently that’s not good enough for some self-proclaimed “diehards” however. At the end of the day, we all just want to see this team win. Even the biggest Dubas critics.

 

[zeke]

The fact this thread has 17 pages a week before playoffs start is so pathetic lmao. Only Leaf fans could be in such a hurry to cry and get angry about a playoff loss before the series even starts.

bUt wE'rE jUsT bEiNg oBjeCtivE rEaLisTiC fAns

 

[ACC1224]

The irony really is quite ridiculous.

I have a feeling there are some here who are just bookmarking posts and waiting to say “I told you so!” when we finally do have success rather than enjoying a championship. I wouldn’t be surprised if that gives them more enjoyment than the actual winning.

You don’t have to love everything about this team to be a fan. Apparently that’s not good enough for some self-proclaimed “diehards” however. At the end of the day, we all just want to see this team win. Even the biggest Dubas critics.

This really can be a fascinating place at times.

 

[All Mod Cons]

The irony really is quite ridiculous.

I have a feeling there are some here who are just bookmarking posts and waiting to say “I told you so!” when we finally do have success rather than enjoying a championship. I wouldn’t be surprised if that gives them more enjoyment than the actual winning.

You don’t have to love everything about this team to be a fan. Apparently that’s not good enough for some self-proclaimed “diehards” however. At the end of the day, we all just want to see this team win. Even the biggest Dubas critics.

We'll get the usual 4 weeks of peace and quiet if we lose in the 1st round and then we'll start the cycle all over again of advanced stats and "this is the best team we've ever had".