Confirmed with Link: Lane Lambert Named Head Coach

[doublechili]

100% agree there. Again if Trotz was not going to sign an extension here after next season (and that explains this lackluster season), then I am totally fine with Lou replacing him.

However if Trotz would've stayed and Lou just didn't like this season, then I have a big problem with that. Trotz is literally the 3rd winningest coach of all time. This isn't someone ok like Laviolette...Trotz is special at what he does and in that case he's one the few coaches that I would get rid of players for.

Until we know the real truth behind the Trotz firing (which we might never) we probably won't be able to fully explain games like the Seattle embarrassment and the season overall.

But what we do know is that this team has been bleeding talent since Lou took over (and they weren't so talented to begin with), mostly because of Lou putting us up against the cap at every turn. Whatever the reason for Trotz's firing now it's literally all on Lou now to fix the roster and hope that Lambert is the goods. That much we do know.

I'll be really interested to see what Lou does this offseason, and how Lambert might change things up. He said he doesn't want to change "hard to play against", which is good. I hope he loosens things up just a bit, plays youth a bit more, and is more flexible overall. And yeah, Lou needs to have a nice summer. I want big moves (Chychrun, Gaudreau), but if Lou does smart smaller moves and keeps assets that would be fine (so long as the results are there).

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Well that's my point. All opinions must match on the Isles boards and if you're in the tiny minority (and from what I can tell, the correct one) it's KILL KILL KILL!

Ok. It just seems like you think you can come in with a fringe, irrational opinion and not get pushback. That's not how the world works at all.

 

[LeapOnOver]

This idea that Lambert only knows Trotz' system and will follow it to a tee is ludicrous. I'm sure he let Lou know exactly what his style is going to be and Lou liked what he heard.

 

[Top Corner]

After several years of actively suggesting that the main thing Lou
Has done for this active roster that brought on our better results was the hiring of Trotz. What was an island of few who felt this way is starting to become more crowded. By letting Trotz , the insulation has been removed and Lou is now on his own with this roster which is not great. This offseason will make or break Lou and by October I think we should see if we have as many Lou lovers as we have had in the past

 

[doublechili]

This idea that Lambert only knows Trotz' system and will follow it to a tee is ludicrous. I'm sure he let Lou know exactly what his style is going to be and Lou liked what he heard.

Thank you. I'm sure everyone here who works for someone would do exactly what their boss does if they replaced them.

 

[leeroggy]

People out here being way too casual about losing the 3rd winningest coach of all time...And acting like a 57 year old rookie coach is going to step right in and there'll be no loss of quality behind the bench.

The Isles roster is entirely average when compared with the the other 31 teams. It was Trotz that was able to compensate for the holes and lack of talent, and thus he was the #1 reason for the great successes of the last 4 years.

Now that there's no question there's going to be a drop off in the coaching (it's just a question of how much), the onus is on Lou more than ever to seriously improve the level of talent on this team. Whereas before the coaching overcompensated for the lack of talent...Now the talent must overcompensate for the lack of elite coaching.

Because forget going for the Cup, right now this roster (with Lane Lambert as coach) doesn't even look like a playoff team - Especially given the rest of the talent in the Eastern Conference. And given the lack of a prospect pool and cap space, I don't know how Lou is going to make this team into a Cup contender this offseason. And if we can't compete for the Cup then what are we doing?

Perif, here's your list of Top 10 in wins all-time, I'm sure you wouldn't want many of these either:

Scotty Bowman

Joel Quenneville

Barry Trotz

Ken Hitchcock

Al Arbour

Lindy Ruff

Paul Maurice

Alain Vigneault

Peter Laviolette

Mike Babcock

As great as BT is, he missed the playoffs 7 times in 14 years with Nashville, and NEVER got to the 3rd round there. In Washington he won a Cup and lost in the first round the other three years and we know what he did with us.

Let's not kid ourselves here . . . he's not a Bowman or an Arbour or even a Quenneville, who does have 3 Cups and only missed the playoffs TWICE in 24 years.

 

[Rehabguy]

Ok. It just seems like you think you can come in with a fringe, irrational opinion and not get pushback. That's not how the world works at all.

Oh I expected the pushback. I’m like the guy who shows up with a globe in his hand and a smile on his face at the monthly flat earth society meeting. I gotta expect pushback. “Fringe” and irrational are relative terms.

 

[Rehabguy]

This idea that Lambert only knows Trotz' system and will follow it to a tee is ludicrous. I'm sure he let Lou know exactly what his style is going to be and Lou liked what he heard.

And that could viewed as either a good thing or a bad thing. If we are last in our division by mid season next year I think most of us would have preferred he knew Trotz system a bit better. It’s also what a few of us find unsettling and could have been avoided if someone didn’t appear like he was just shooting from the hip.

So right now I’m proceeding with caution.

 

[doublechili]

As great as BT is, he missed the playoffs 7 times in 14 years with Nashville, and NEVER got to the 3rd round there. In Washington he won a Cup and lost in the first round the other three years and we know what he did with us.

So if you evaluate a coach's overall effectiveness with their rate of winning playoff rounds, and if it appears that Trotz' playoff round wins per year ratio with the Isles was about the best of his career, then is it possible that all the GMs he's worked for through the years have supplied him with subpar rosters but Lou's was the best?

 

[leeroggy]

So if you evaluate a coach's overall effectiveness with their rate of winning playoff rounds, and if it appears that Trotz' playoff round wins per year ratio with the Isles was about the best of his career, then is it possible that all the GMs he's worked for through the years have supplied him with subpar rosters but Lou's was the best?

One thing I learned long ago is not to confuse correlation and coincidence . . .

 

[CupHolders]

DELETE.

Does not bring anything of merit to the conversation.

 

[SI90]

Trotz interviewing with Philly today kind of changed a lot to the speculation and narrative. That would suck for us.

 

[periferal]

Perif, here's your list of Top 10 in wins all-time, I'm sure you wouldn't want many of these either:

Scotty Bowman

Joel Quenneville

Barry Trotz

Ken Hitchcock

Al Arbour

Lindy Ruff

Paul Maurice

Alain Vigneault

Peter Laviolette

Mike Babcock

As great as BT is, he missed the playoffs 7 times in 14 years with Nashville, and NEVER got to the 3rd round there. In Washington he won a Cup and lost in the first round the other three years and we know what he did with us.

Let's not kid ourselves here . . . he's not a Bowman or an Arbour or even a Quenneville, who does have 3 Cups and only missed the playoffs TWICE in 24 years.

I appreciate the argument as it's one that needs to be fleshed out, but you didn't flesh it out nearly enough. Let's look at it in detail...

Scotty Bowman who's widely considered the best coach of all time...

...Won 5 Cups with the Canadiens and had a .744 winning %
...Won zero with the Sabres and had a 594 winning %

Did Bowman forget how to coach when he went from Montreal in 78-79 to Buffalo in 79-80...Or perhaps going from coaching players like LaFleur, Robinson, Lemaire, Shutt, Gainey, and freaking Ken Dryden to guys like Perreault, Smith Gare, Seiling, and Ramsey might've had something to do with it?

The point is in order to compare coaches you need to compare how they'd do with the same ownership/organization and the same group of players. Of course that's impossible to make happen, but that's the prism from which the argument must be attempted to be had.

To wit, look at this insane group of players Joel Quenneville was "lucky" enough to coach in the past 25+ years:

Turgeon
MacInnis
Sakic
Tanguay
Pronger
Demitra
Hull
Courtnall
Duchesne
Hejduk
Blake
Theodore
Kane
Keith
Toews
Sharp
Seabrook
Barkov
Huberdeau
Ekblad

...And that isn't all of them. From St. Louis to Colorado to Chicago to Florida he's been working with hall of famers at every stop of his coaching career. Quenneville never had to deal with a roster close to the talent-level of the 2018-2022 New York Islanders. Might that have something to do with the level of success he's had? You bet your ass it does.

At the same time you referenced Trotz with Nashville who had "top scorers" like Ronning, Legwand, and Scott Walker. Even in their most successful years the top guys were Kostitsyn, Erat, and Hornqvist. The talent definitely improved when he got to Washington, but so did their team which ultimately lead to a Cup. And notice how the Caps have been since Trotz left...

At the same time there have been some very lackluster coaches that have won the Cup recently. Berube, Sullian, Bylsma, Carlyle, and Hartley are a few names, but again in each case look a the level of talent that they had to work with (and Berube was the benefit of the greatest goalie performance in the past 20 years).
And I don't think we need to discuss Al Arbour (whom I truly love). Something tells me you are familiar with the players he coached, the years each arrived, and how the success followed.

So the question to ask is...Which coach(es) could've had the same success with the 2018-2021 New York Islanders that Barry Trotz did? I don't think it's many as his defensive style perfectly matched the fact that they were a low-scoring team devoid of the top talent other coaches had.

The point is that the more talent you have on your roster, the less you need to lean on your coach to have success and certainly vice versa. And I'd make the argument that, between his stops at Nashville and the Islanders, very few coaches on the "best" of all time list got more results with less talent than Trotz did.

 

[periferal]

So if you evaluate a coach's overall effectiveness with their rate of winning playoff rounds, and if it appears that Trotz' playoff round wins per year ratio with the Isles was about the best of his career, then is it possible that all the GMs he's worked for through the years have supplied him with subpar rosters but Lou's was the best?

Hate to break it to you...But this continues to be primarily garth snow's roster.

Even more of a reason why Trotz is being underrated around here.

 

[Rehabguy]

See, this is what I’m talking about.

Purportedly Lou Lamiorello in all his awesome greatness got us the greatest coach in the NHL today. No one could have gotten us the great Barry Trotz they said and while he coached our team to heights not seen in decades but the moment Lou Lamiorello let’s him go it's, “oh he was not that good anyway”, “overrated”, “few playoff victories”. "He sucked."

I can’t believe I’m reading this shit. I tell you that’s some potent Kool Aide!

Hate to break it to you...But this continues to be primarily garth snow's roster.

Even more of a reason why Trotz is being underrated around here.

Once again yep. I have to say I don’t always agree with Capt Abe but there is a certain consistency to his thought patterns here.

 

[Rehabguy]

One thing I learned long ago is not to confuse correlation and coincidence . . .

That’s correlation and causation.

 

[doublechili]

Hate to break it to you...But this continues to be primarily garth snow's roster.

Even more of a reason why Trotz is being underrated around here.

Okay, so Trotz missed the playoffs this past year with Garth Snow's roster by about the same amount of points as Doug Weight missed the playoffs with Garth Snow's roster. By that logic, ....

 

[leeroggy]

I appreciate the argument as it's one that needs to be fleshed out, but you didn't flesh it out nearly enough. Let's look at it in detail...

Scotty Bowman who's widely considered the best coach of all time...

...Won 5 Cups with the Canadiens and had a .744 winning %
...Won zero with the Sabres and had a 594 winning %

Did Bowman forget how to coach when he went from Montreal in 78-79 to Buffalo in 79-80...Or perhaps going from coaching players like LaFleur, Robinson, Lemaire, Shutt, Gainey, and freaking Ken Dryden to guys like Perreault, Smith Gare, Seiling, and Ramsey might've had something to do with it?

The point is in order to compare coaches you need to compare how they'd do with the same ownership/organization and the same group of players. Of course that's impossible to make happen, but that's the prism from which the argument must be attempted to be had.

To wit, look at this insane group of players Joel Quenneville was "lucky" enough to coach in the past 25+ years:

Turgeon
MacInnis
Sakic
Tanguay
Pronger
Demitra
Hull
Courtnall
Duchesne
Hejduk
Blake
Theodore
Kane
Keith
Toews
Sharp
Seabrook
Barkov
Huberdeau
Ekblad

...And that isn't all of them. From St. Louis to Colorado to Chicago to Florida he's been working with hall of famers at every stop of his coaching career. Quenneville never had to deal with a roster close to the talent-level of the 2018-2022 New York Islanders. Might that have something to do with the level of success he's had? You bet your ass it does.

At the same time you referenced Trotz with Nashville who had "top scorers" like Ronning, Legwand, and Scott Walker. Even in their most successful years the top guys were Kostitsyn, Erat, and Hornqvist. The talent definitely improved when he got to Washington, but so did their team which ultimately lead to a Cup. And notice how the Caps have been since Trotz left...

At the same time there have been some very lackluster coaches that have won the Cup recently. Berube, Sullian, Bylsma, Carlyle, and Hartley are a few names, but again in each case look a the level of talent that they had to work with (and Berube was the benefit of the greatest goalie performance in the past 20 years).
And I don't think we need to discuss Al Arbour (whom I truly love). Something tells me you are familiar with the players he coached, the years each arrived, and how the success followed.

So the question to ask is...Which coach(es) could've had the same success with the 2018-2021 New York Islanders that Barry Trotz did? I don't think it's many as his defensive style perfectly matched the fact that they were a low-scoring team devoid of the top talent other coaches had.

The point is that the more talent you have on your roster, the less you need to lean on your coach to have success and certainly vice versa. And I'd make the argument that, between his stops at Nashville and the Islanders, very few coaches on the "best" of all time list got more results with less talent than Trotz did.

There were only 17 teams when Bowman won the last Cup in Montreal, so the talent was much more spread than today. We actually had one more point than Montreal that year in the regular season. Does Arbour deserve to be blamed for the semifinal loss to the Rangers after the previous season's choke against the Leafs?

After all, in 78-79, we had the Hart Winner, the Norris winner, the Adams winner, the Art Ross winner and five of the 12 All-Stars on the Final two All-Star teams

Trotz won a Cup but lost the other three years in the FIRST round. That HAS to be a mark against him.

One of the complaints against Trotz in Nashville was that his system was good enough with mediocre talent to make or be on the bubble of the playoffs every year, but then you were never drafting a stud because they weren't at the slot.

It's not a complete comparison, but that's like a corporation that never invests in growth and just milks the cash flow as long as they can. And since there was no salary cap in those days, you do have to ask if his system and results were an impediment to signing an offensive talent in free agency.

Quenneville is more interesting, in that he did have a lot of talent, but so does Toronto now, and look at the results. Frankly, I think Keefe is pretty sharp, so what is keeping them down? Maybe the regular season they had is like the Isles in 1978-79, and we know what happened next.

But one thing I haven't gone back to check yet with limited time, is did his teams have the ability to sign FA's? And how much input into drafting did he have? I never got the feeling that Trotz was influential over Poile in Nashville or Lou (the Caps team was already built, he just tweaked it).

There's a lot of factors here, which is why we tend to drift back to the old Parcells line about "you are what your record says you are".

If Lambert gets them back on track, this is all moot anyhow. The offseason will be fascinating. I will go on record and say at least two hockey trades, a legit FA signing and Holmstrom makes the team out of camp, with Bellows and Wahlstrom seeing significantly more time, in a transition year.

That’s correlation and causation.

Maybe in your world, but in my world of investment management, it's my way

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I’m like the guy who shows up with a globe in his hand and a smile on his face at the monthly flat earth society meeting.

Maybe this is why people give you grief.

Hate to break it to you...But this continues to be primarily garth snow's roster.

This keeps happening and it's sillier every time.

 

[CupHolders]

Patterns of correlation without causation is a coincidence.

EDIT: That’s an oversimplification of course.

 

[periferal]

There were only 17 teams when Bowman won the last Cup in Montreal, so the talent was much more spread than today. We actually had one more point than Montreal that year in the regular season. Does Arbour deserve to be blamed for the semifinal loss to the Rangers after the previous season's choke against the Leafs?

After all, in 78-79, we had the Hart Winner, the Norris winner, the Adams winner, the Art Ross winner and five of the 12 All-Stars on the Final two All-Star teams

Trotz won a Cup but lost the other three years in the FIRST round. That HAS to be a mark against him.

One of the complaints against Trotz in Nashville was that his system was good enough with mediocre talent to make or be on the bubble of the playoffs every year, but then you were never drafting a stud because they weren't at the slot.

It's not a complete comparison, but that's like a corporation that never invests in growth and just milks the cash flow as long as they can. And since there was no salary cap in those days, you do have to ask if his system and results were an impediment to signing an offensive talent in free agency.

Quenneville is more interesting, in that he did have a lot of talent, but so does Toronto now, and look at the results. Frankly, I think Keefe is pretty sharp, so what is keeping them down? Maybe the regular season they had is like the Isles in 1978-79, and we know what happened next.

But one thing I haven't gone back to check yet with limited time, is did his teams have the ability to sign FA's? And how much input into drafting did he have? I never got the feeling that Trotz was influential over Poile in Nashville or Lou (the Caps team was already built, he just tweaked it).

There's a lot of factors here, which is why we tend to drift back to the old Parcells line about "you are what your record says you are".

If Lambert gets them back on track, this is all moot anyhow. The offseason will be fascinating. I will go on record and say at least two hockey trades, a legit FA signing and Holmstrom makes the team out of camp, with Bellows and Wahlstrom seeing significantly more time, in a transition year.



Maybe in your world, but in my world of investment management, it's my way

Really respect this post. Don't have the energy to hit on all, but a few:

-The Leafs currently have a lot of talent, but really not a D or G...And they're horribly constructed in terms of their mental make up. Matthews is leaving as soon as he's a UFA, Marner is a punk, Tavares is as much of a leader as a loaf of bread, and that's their core with not other real vets/leaders to step up.
-And the Leafs talent/roster make up now doesn't hold a candle to teams like the Blackhawks that Quenneville had the privilege of coaching. Not a direct comparison at all.
-And I agree and said it many times...That if you have Trotz coaching your team you're never going to be drafting in the top 5 where the elite talent is so you might be on a big of a "progress treadmill" wit your team. That said, maybe Lou hired Lambert so we can get a top pick a few years in a row.
-Also not sure where you're getting your information from, but the Capitals WON their 1st round playoff matchup their 1st 3 years with Trotz before winning the Cup in year 4.
-I'm not calling Trotz a god...Just pretty much the best coach for this lineup given the lack of scoring we have. Of course I'm going to let this offseason play out, but no matter what Lou does 80% of the team is coming back and I don't see a path where he (with Lambert coaching) can improve upon the success Trotz had. Of course I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not as big of a fan of Lou as many here.
-To that point...If Holmstrom, Wahlstrom, and Bellows are all in the opening night lineup that most likely means Lou failed this offseason.

 

[leeroggy]

Patterns of correlation without causation is a coincidence.

EDIT: That’s an oversimplification of course.

Is that third derivative or just second?

Before we know it we'll be learning Latin here! Repeat after me . . . teenie, peenie, leakie

 

[CupHolders]

Is that third derivative or just second?

Before we know it we'll be learning Latin here! Repeat after me . . . teenie, peenie, leakie

Why not? I’m currently flight tracking to determine the Isles third round pick.

It’s what we do

 

[Rehabguy]

Maybe this is why people give you grief.

Do you think this why they shit on me too?

 

[leeroggy]

Really respect this post. Don't have the energy to hit on all, but a few:

-The Leafs currently have a lot of talent, but really not a D or G...And they're horribly constructed in terms of their mental make up. Matthews is leaving as soon as he's a UFA, Marner is a punk, Tavares is as much of a leader as a loaf of bread, and that's their core with not other real vets/leaders to step up.
-And the Leafs talent/roster make up now doesn't hold a candle to teams like the Blackhawks that Quenneville had the privilege of coaching. Not a direct comparison at all.
-And I agree and said it many times...That if you have Trotz coaching your team you're never going to be drafting in the top 5 where the elite talent is so you might be on a big of a "progress treadmill" wit your team. That said, maybe Lou hired Lambert so we can get a top pick a few years in a row.
-Also not sure where you're getting your information from, but the Capitals WON their 1st round playoff matchup their 1st 3 years with Trotz before winning the Cup in year 4.
-I'm not calling Trotz a god...Just pretty much the best coach for this lineup given the lack of scoring we have. Of course I'm going to let this offseason play out, but no matter what Lou does 80% of the team is coming back and I don't see a path where he (with Lambert coaching) can improve upon the success Trotz had. Of course I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not as big of a fan of Lou as many here.
-To that point...If Holmstrom, Wahlstrom, and Bellows are all in the opening night lineup that most likely means Lou failed this offseason.

On your last point, I see Bailey, Beau out the door with hopefully Gaudreau as the FA, Bailey as a cap dump and Beau in a package for the 2nd LD, which is why I see all three.

In an ideal world, I would have Gaudreau driving Lee and Nelson, which is what I think Lou had in mind for Panarin. That leaves Barzal with Palmieri and (here is the most controversial prediction) Holmstrom playing on LW, so Barzal is freed up with Holmstrom playing third man high. I'll get plenty of push back but Holmstrom reminds me A LOT of Pat Flatley and he played that role for Lafontaine too.

Then you can play Bellows and Wahlstrom with Pageau and we play Parise with CC and CC and just let the lines get used to each other.

This allows Parise to move up if necessary to Barzal. Their chemistry late in the season was not a mirage. But I think next season is about transition to a younger group and take the lumps if needed. Lou saying "the room needs to hear a new voice" is to me code for "Barry does not have in his DNA the ability to take a step back to take two steps forward".

To me, it's about making a run in 2023-24, not next year.

As to Toronto, I don't think it's as much about the D, as much as about the inconsistency with the goalies. On the surface, Campbell's stats were fine, but the variation of his starts has to hurt. With their offense, a steady goalie who is like 2.80 GAA but never gets rattled and almost never gives up more than 4, is more valuable to them than one with 2.55 but 10% of the time he gets shelled (and likely gives up the untimely bad goal, like in Game 7 against Montreal last year). And Mrazek looked like a PTSD victim at times.