Confirmed with Link: Lane Lambert Named Head Coach

[nyisles]

I put up with a lot of Snow bashing and I took it graciously.

You "put up with it"?

TIL Garth Snow posts on HFBoards as "Rehabguy"

 

[Rehabguy]

That doesn't happen at all unless you're constantly in the tiny minority and/or irrational when it comes to opinions.

Well that's my point. All opinions must match on the Isles boards and if you're in the tiny minority (and from what I can tell, the correct one) it's KILL KILL KILL!

Fans judging both GMs based on the level of success they achieved with the team is the opposite of hypocritical. Expecting fans to do otherwise while also accusing them of bias certainly makes you sound like a hypocrite, though.

Well, I really can't understand this post.

 

[eoin92]

Billboards on Hempstead Turnpike calling for Lou to be fired.

I’ll fire up the GoFundMe. Also going to hire a plane to fly over Toronto, to congratulate them on the handshake line respect.

 

[Lame Lambert]

You "put up with it"?

TIL Garth Snow posts on HFBoards as "Rehabguy"

Old news

 

[Rehabguy]

Old news

Let's take a trip down memory lane Snow RULES! That article was written in 2020. They should have included signing Brock Nelson when he was a high school student and Ilya Sorokin when he was in Russia.

 

[CRYHAVOC]

Honest question. Where is it worse?

Goaltending?

Halak and Greiss vs. Sorokin/Varlamov

Defense?

Leddy, Boychuck and struggling prospects vs. Pelech, Pulock, Mayfield turning into legitimate players and now Dobson

Forwards?

If you want to count losing Tavares. Maybe there is a downgrade. Nelson improved, but that might not be much of an offset. Other forwards are mostly the same and started to age out.

Prospect pool?

Maybe. Most of them have graduated to the NHL. Competing hasn’t allowed them to replenish picks.

So getting younger at forward and replenishing depth are all legitimate arguments and needs. But I don’t see this roster as made worse than before. And I think the younger core is better defined now.

The defense is not what it was three years ago. Losing Leddy, and Toews and replacing them with Chara was a downgrade. Losing Boychuck can't be blamed on Lou.

Lou's trading first-round picks for Pageau, and Palmeri IMHO was too expensive. Keeping the fourth line together is IMHO also too expensive.

Who in the prospect pool can make a difference next year? Holstrom? Koivula? Bolduc? Not likely. I don't see how Raty or Salo make the roster either. So, we're looking for improvement from youngsters, Dobson, Walstrom, and Bellows. Perhaps more consistency from Beau?

I do agree with your belief that the younger core is more defined. The question is again how much improvement will come from them?

I don't believe much will be done this off-season. This is, if we're lucky, an 8th or 9th seed. It may get ugly before it gets better.

 

[Rehabguy]

The defense is not what it was three years ago. Losing Leddy, and Toews and replacing them with Chara was a downgrade. Losing Boychuck can't be blamed on Lou.

Lou's trading first-round picks for Pageau, and Palmeri IMHO was too expensive. Keeping the fourth line together is IMHO also too expensive.

Who in the prospect pool can make a difference next year? Holstrom? Koivula? Bolduc? Not likely. I don't see how Raty or Salo make the roster either. So, we're looking for improvement from youngsters, Dobson, Walstrom, and Bellows. Perhaps more consistency from Beau?

I do agree with your belief that the younger core is more defined. The question is again how much improvement will come from them?

I don't believe much will be done this off-season. This is, if we're lucky, an 8th or 9th seed. It may get ugly before it gets better.

For sure a 1st rounder and 2nd rounder for a 3rd line grinder in Pageau was way too expensive. Not when Snow was able to turn players like Griffith Reinhart into Barzal and Beuvillier.

In recent decades Snow has been a much better team builder than Lou Lamiorello he just didn't know how to hire the right coaching staff. I don't think Lou runs a team well either with all his silly rules and silly moves, but he had his day back in the 90's and early 2000's.

 

[MikeyMike01]

It's only mid-May... I'd suggest we all try to relax and wait to see what transpires over the next few months. Trotz is gone. It's a fact. Our views and opinions of it are now moot. It's done. We can only look forward and see what happens.

The sky isn't really falling, let's wait and see what happens before getting too worked up about stuff.

There are some people around here who get off on being the first person to be upset about something. So, they’re constantly upset about everything.

 

[CRYHAVOC]

"Lamoriello's reliance on aging forwards and his poor recent drafting record up front have put his former team in a position where they must rebuild. Both of these problems stem directly from Lamoriello, and there is little that can be done to view these factors in a positive light."

His solution for the loss of key UFA's was always to just bring in aging vets. As you said predictably he did this with the Isles as well and this was one of the reasons why I wasn't all head over heels over his hiring because I was worried he was going to make this team old and slow like his former Devils and unfortunately he did.

That is my worry also. I once posted I would rather see Lou moved to President alone and a younger analytic minded candidate brought in as GM. I was attacked for that reasoning. I remain believing this team is too slow, too old, and lacking elite talent. I don't see this changing except through the draft.

 

[Rehabguy]

There are some people around here who get off on being the first person to be upset about something. So, they’re constantly upset about everything.

I'm rarely here, so it can't be me.

 

[Seph]

Well, I really can't understand this post.

Yeah, I guess I should have known expecting you to understand objectivity was a reach on my part.

 

[Throttle]

That is my worry also. I once posted I would rather see Lou moved to President alone and a younger analytic minded candidate brought in as GM. I was attacked for that reasoning. I remain believing this team is too slow, too old, and lacking elite talent. I don't see this changing except through the draft.

He certainly did a pretty solid job of cleaning up the Nonis and Burke crap show in TOR, drafted some nice players, signed some interim ones, got a #1 goalie, restored credibility to it, etc. Cherry picking his remaining years with the Devils is not the full picture.

The younger analytical mind has done wonders since Lou was shuffled out in favor of that one.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Alright any more Snow discussion and I’m giving out points for thread hijacking. Discuss Lambert/Trotz/Lou.

 

[periferal]

There are two issues. One is personnel, and Lou didn't get the LHD the team needed this past season. But wasn't it also pretty obvious this past season that the players weren't responding to Trotz as they did the prior seasons?

Trotz' system is demanding to execute, and after a couple of abbreviated seasons it seems like the players simply weren't able/willing to do it again for a full 82 game season. Do we have any reason to believe that their mindset would have been any different under Trotz next season?

Trotz was with Nashville for 15 years. He had the most success with them in years 12 and 13 (finally winning a playoff series each year)

Trotz was with the Capitals 4 years and won the Cup in year 4.

If you're honestly going to sit here and apologize for this group of Islander players who can't seem to man up for an elite coach when other franchises had done it then I'd say it's time for some new players.

Or maybe...Just maybe...In addition to the 13 game road trip and Covid issues, Lou brought back a worse team this year and that's what's really wrong with the team.

So maybe Lou thought he was fixing something by changing the coach, but he actually just broke something else. Lord knows he's not firing himself so here we are.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Alright any more Snow discussion and I’m giving out points for thread hijacking. Discuss Lambert/Trotz/Lou.

 

[Rehabguy]

There are two issues. One is personnel, and Lou didn't get the LHD the team needed this past season. But wasn't it also pretty obvious this past season that the players weren't responding to Trotz as they did the prior seasons?

Trotz' system is demanding to execute, and after a couple of abbreviated seasons it seems like the players simply weren't able/willing to do it again for a full 82 game season. Do we have any reason to believe that their mindset would have been any different under Trotz next season?

The system was demanding to execute but do we have any reason to believe that the system would change or be any different under Lambert next season? I think the point Periferal was trying to make, and if so I agree with him, why hire the less experienced of the two to fix the system of his mentor? If you are going to make a break from Trotz's system, Lou needed to take a complete break and certainly not hire his protege. That is, unless there is another reason- that it had nothing to do with the system but perhaps how Trotz was managing his players; how he was disciplining them; how he was rewarding them; how hard he was working them; how much rest or playtime he was giving them. Was his message consistent? Were there too many complaints? To me, it just doesn't make sense to hire Lambert if Lou was trying to change the game plan.

 

[Rehabguy]

That is my worry also. I once posted I would rather see Lou moved to President alone and a younger analytic minded candidate brought in as GM. I was attacked for that reasoning. I remain believing this team is too slow, too old, and lacking elite talent. I don't see this changing except through the draft.

There is a saying by Spanish philosopher George Santayana, "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

I think Lou might be too set in his ways that he cannot remember the damage he did to the Devils in the later years by covering up his team's problems with overaged veterans. It cost the Devils and in the past and it will cost the Islanders in the future.

It was not surprising that Brendan Shanahan kept him on such a short leash when he was GM of the Leafs and when the Islanders asked for his service I'm sure he was the first one to gladly show Lou the door.

 

[CRYHAVOC]

He certainly did a pretty solid job of cleaning up the Nonis and Burke crap show in TOR, drafted some nice players, signed some interim ones, got a #1 goalie, restored credibility to it, etc. Cherry picking his remaining years with the Devils is not the full picture.

The younger analytical mind has done wonders since Lou was shuffled out in favor of that one.

That's where the league is certainly going. He may have done a "solid job" of cleaning up Toronto's prior GM's mistakes. I don't see the same here.

 

[CupHolders]

The defense is not what it was three years ago. Losing Leddy, and Toews and replacing them with Chara was a downgrade. Losing Boychuck can't be blamed on Lou.

Lou's trading first-round picks for Pageau, and Palmeri IMHO was too expensive. Keeping the fourth line together is IMHO also too expensive.

Who in the prospect pool can make a difference next year? Holstrom? Koivula? Bolduc? Not likely. I don't see how Raty or Salo make the roster either. So, we're looking for improvement from youngsters, Dobson, Walstrom, and Bellows. Perhaps more consistency from Beau?

I do agree with your belief that the younger core is more defined. The question is again how much improvement will come from them?

I don't believe much will be done this off-season. This is, if we're lucky, an 8th or 9th seed. It may get ugly before it gets better.

Ok regarding Toews... When first looking at the roster I took a hard line on the year before vs the year after Lou was here. So Toews wasn’t in the lineup. But I’ll concede that he was close enough to making it to consider him a roster player.

But with that said, I think I’m coming to realize that your initial comments on the Isles being worse may not have been directed specifically about the lineup? Which is how I interpreted it. But rather about the organizational shape/depth in general. Is that fair to say?

I’ve covered Toews extensively and why I think his loss was understandable considering the circumstances at the time. I also don’t think it’s fair to criticize in hindsight. But I will do so here.

Knowing what I know now about Beauvllier’s development, I would’ve much rather the Isles parted with Beau and find a way to keep Toews. At the time, I did think Beau should’ve been kept over Toews.

Palmieri and Pageau trade… No problem with either and I would do so again.

Lack of prospects is a function of players transitioning to the NHL (good thing) and trading picks (to compete)… So it’s reasonable to me.

Finally, I don’t agree with you that the state of this organization is worse than before. I also still see avenues for improvement if the right moves are made for this year. But I can’t say your take is entirely unfair or unreasonable. I’ll just agree to disagree

 

[CRYHAVOC]

Ok regarding Toews... When first looking at the roster I took a hard line on the year before vs the year after Lou was here. So Toews wasn’t in the lineup. But I’ll concede that he was close enough to making it to consider him a roster player.

But with that said, I think I’m coming to realize that your initial comments on the Isles being worse may not have been directed specifically about the lineup? Which is how I interpreted it. But rather about the organizational shape/depth in general. Is that fair to say?

I’ve covered Toews extensively and why I think his loss was understandable considering the circumstances at the time. I also don’t think it’s fair to criticize in hindsight. But I will do so here.

Knowing what I know now about Beauvllier’s development, I would’ve much rather the Isles parted with Beau and find a way to keep Toews. At the time, I did think Beau should’ve been kept over Toews.

Palmieri and Pageau trade… No problem with either and I would do so again.

Lack of prospects is a function of players transitioning to the NHL (good thing) and trading picks (to compete)… So it’s reasonable to me.

Finally, I don’t agree with you that the state of this organization is worse than before. I also still see avenues for improvement if the right moves are made for this year. But I can’t say your take is entirely unfair or unreasonable. I’ll just agree to disagree

Thank you. If I remember correctly, Snow blamed the failure of the Isles to be successful the year prior to Lou taking over on Toews getting hurt. So, it could be argued that the organization may have had some feeling of Toews capabilities then.

You are correct, I was speaking regarding the general shape of the organization; including the roster, and prospect pool.

You get my drift on trading Toews; someone else could/should have been moved. On second thought this may not have been totally Lou's fault. Maybe Lou was following Trotz's assessment on who should be moved. But whoever was ultimately responsible, in hindsight it was a terrible mistake.

I agree, prospects transitioning to the NHL, IS a good thing. The problem I have is that the pool wasn't refilled.

I fear that there aren't enough assets available now to make an improvement that would lead to another deep playoff run. The only thing I could see changing that assessment would be if Lou could sign one of Forsberg or Gaudreau.

Finally, I'm old enough to have seen almost everything conceivable happen to this team. I don't expect agreement. And as you state: we can always agree to disagree.

​

 

[Lame Lambert]

 

[doublechili]

If you're honestly going to sit here and apologize for this group of Islander players who can't seem to man up for an elite coach when other franchises had done it then I'd say it's time for some new players.

Or maybe...Just maybe...In addition to the 13 game road trip and Covid issues, Lou brought back a worse team this year and that's what's really wrong with the team.

Didn't realize I was apologizing. But I guess when you're 80, and the owners just spent $1 billion on a new arena, there's maybe not an appetite for risking another season to see if the coach can get through.

Re: the second part, I acknowledged the personnel wasn't good enough. But now you're the one "apologizing" for the players since it sure looked like they weren't all on board for 60 minutes a game for 82 games. The personnel problem can't explain away the horrendous non-effort in the SEA loss, for example.

 

[doublechili]

The system was demanding to execute but do we have any reason to believe that the system would change or be any different under Lambert next season? I think the point Periferal was trying to make, and if so I agree with him, why hire the less experienced of the two to fix the system of his mentor? If you are going to make a break from Trotz's system, Lou needed to take a complete break and certainly not hire his protege. That is, unless there is another reason- that it had nothing to do with the system but perhaps how Trotz was managing his players; how he was disciplining them; how he was rewarding them; how hard he was working them; how much rest or playtime he was giving them. Was his message consistent? Were there too many complaints? To me, it just doesn't make sense to hire Lambert if Lou was trying to change the game plan.

Trotz was great, but am I the only one who detected a bit of a stubborn streak in him? Lee in OT. Not separating Lee and Barzal. Playing Chara and Greene a ton. Maybe the problem was that Trotz wasn't willing to bend. Maybe Lambert will. Also, Trotz is a player's coach, Lambert is supposedly more of a disciplinarian. Different guys.

 

[CupHolders]

Trotz was great, but am I the only one who detected a bit of a stubborn streak in him? Lee in OT. Not separating Lee and Barzal. Playing Chara and Greene a ton. Maybe the problem was that Trotz wasn't willing to bend. Maybe Lambert will. Also, Trotz is a player's coach, Lambert is supposedly more of a disciplinarian. Different guys.

For me it was the refusal to reunite Barzal and Palmieri until very late. Also not putting Palmieri in place of Pageau on PP1 bumper. Palmieri is like top five in PP goals over the past five years before going to the Isles.

 

[periferal]

Didn't realize I was apologizing. But I guess when you're 80, and the owners just spent $1 billion on a new arena, there's maybe not an appetite for risking another season to see if the coach can get through.

Re: the second part, I acknowledged the personnel wasn't good enough. But now you're the one "apologizing" for the players since it sure looked like they weren't all on board for 60 minutes a game for 82 games. The personnel problem can't explain away the horrendous non-effort in the SEA loss, for example.

100% agree there. Again if Trotz was not going to sign an extension here after next season (and that explains this lackluster season), then I am totally fine with Lou replacing him.

However if Trotz would've stayed and Lou just didn't like this season, then I have a big problem with that. Trotz is literally the 3rd winningest coach of all time. This isn't someone ok like Laviolette...Trotz is special at what he does and in that case he's one the few coaches that I would get rid of players for.

Until we know the real truth behind the Trotz firing (which we might never) we probably won't be able to fully explain games like the Seattle embarrassment and the season overall.

But what we do know is that this team has been bleeding talent since Lou took over (and they weren't so talented to begin with), mostly because of Lou putting us up against the cap at every turn. Whatever the reason for Trotz's firing now it's literally all on Lou now to fix the roster and hope that Lambert is the goods. That much we do know.