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LAK 5 : EDM 2 - King me!

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All that is needed of McNabb is to develop into a reliable defender, who can move the puck out of his zone with a reasonable frequency without brutal turnovers, clear the crease & corners and to show a little snarl at the blue lines.

I think he absolutely has the tools to become that, I also know that comparing him to muzz is just a recipe for disappointment.

Dean stole Muzzin, I shudder to think where we are without him right now.
 
TonySCV said:
Muzzin had the best teacher in the NHL with Doughty. Certainly was a factor in his development.

For the times when everyone moans how the Kings never do well in back to backs, remind them of these two games.
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And that they never beat (or dominate) rubbish teams!
 
Anonymous028 said:
All that is needed of McNabb is to develop into a reliable defender, who can move the puck out of his zone with a reasonable frequency, and to show a little snarl at the blue lines.

I think he absolutely has the tools to become that, I also know that comparing him to muzz is just a recipe for disappointment.

Dean stole Muzzin, I shudder to think where we are without him right now.
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That is much better look at it. I agree.
 
KingCanadain1976 said:
Never said he didn't. I am just saying he played top 6 mins and lets not try and say he sparked the 3rd line when they played 2nd line mins is all.
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King is the reason, that line played well. I said it. There is a reason King continues to be productive, and a coach favorite, cause he is a good player.

He doesn't luck his way into production, or minutes.
 
KingCanadain1976 said:
With Carter out that was our 2nd most mins as a line So hate to break it to they were the second line tonight. Lets also not over state a decent game against a bottom team either . Reducing Gaborik and Pearson's mins was not a bad idea either against a bottom club . Lewis brown king had a good game and earned some mins I just don't want to see this become a regular thing This team needs Pearson and lucic playing more mins then king every night.
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Tonight they didn't. And you need to ask the question was this the original game plan or did they move up in minutes because of their play? I would say it was the later.
 
Herby said:
Just because one guy struggled and developed into a star doesn't mean Forbort and McNabb will do the same. Aki Berg and Denis Grebeshkov also struggled and never got good

I do remember Muzzin being shaky in 2013, he would play well but made some huge gaffes with the puck that lead to some goals. I don't remember him struggling at all in 2014, he was really good that entire year. And Muzzin was the same age in the 2014 season as McNabb is today and only a year older than Forbort. If either guy comes anywhere close to playing at the level Muzzin did in 2014 in the next year I'll eat a massive amount of crow, it's just not happening.
.
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He did have memorable blunders. And he was shaky, but he was still effective. People (including myself) advise to show patience with McNabb not because we expect him to become as good as Muzzin, but because it does take time to develop your game and identity and to play that role well.

I know I'll get poo-pooed on for this, but this is why, when Martinez and Muzzin were on the same level of experience, I felt Muzzin had the higher upside. Martinez played well, but he played safe, and he didn't push his abilities or take chances. Muzzin would make big blunders, but he made them trying to develop and improve his game. I see McNabb having a similar developmental trajectory (not career or overall talent). The more you push your game, the more success you have.

In a similar vein, we saw Michael Mersch score a goal playing with Andreoff and Nolan. He did that playing HIS game. Weal, conversely, has had issues incorporating his game identity into the NHL level.

tsanuri said:
I think this is the key. It seemed like when he made a mistake it ended up in the net for awhile. But that is the growing pains if playing top D minutes when your not really ready for them.
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Yup. Nobody's denying Muzzin made mistakes. They were mistakes of high (or in this case, low) quality. It wasn't a quantitative issue with Muzzin, however.

Herby said:
Generally a top 6 role is based on who you are playing with, not your amount of ice time. King was playing with Trevor Lewis and Dustin Brown, not exactly Mario Lemieux and Brett Hull.
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For what it's worth, Dwight King and Trevor Lewis always seem to have great chemistry. And if tonight is any indication, could be a good revival opportunity for Brown.
 
damacles1156 said:
King is the reason, that line played well. I said it.
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As long as your not trying to say he sparked the 3rd line like other have implied I have no issue with you saying whatever you want after all its your opinion and that everyone has a right to. I take issue with people calling him a 3rd line player when he plays 2nd line mins period.
 
KingCanadain1976 said:
Never said he didn't. I am just saying he played top 6 mins and lets not try and say he sparked the 3rd line when they played 2nd line mins is all.
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He sparked two offensive black holes.

Kinger is absolutely essential to the Kings forward group, especially considering his salary.
 
King'sPawn said:
He did have memorable blunders. And he was shaky, but he was still effective. People (including myself) advise to show patience with McNabb not because we expect him to become as good as Muzzin, but because it does take time to develop your game and identity and to play that role well.

I know I'll get poo-pooed on for this, but this is why, when Martinez and Muzzin were on the same level of experience, I felt Muzzin had the higher upside. Martinez played well, but he played safe, and he didn't push his abilities or take chances. Muzzin would make big blunders, but he made them trying to develop and improve his game. I see McNabb having a similar developmental trajectory (not career or overall talent). The more you push your game, the more success you have.

In a similar vein, we saw Michael Mersch score a goal playing with Andreoff and Nolan. He did that playing HIS game. Weal, conversely, has had issues incorporating his game identity into the NHL level.



Yup. Nobody's denying Muzzin made mistakes. They were mistakes of high (or in this case, low) quality. It wasn't a quantitative issue with Muzzin, however.



For what it's worth, Dwight King and Trevor Lewis always seem to have great chemistry. And if tonight is any indication, could be a good revival opportunity for Brown.
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I agree with Weal, he has had trouble making (His) game translate on NHL ice.

It's why he keeps getting benched, he is giving Sutter nothing to work with, or build on.
 
tsanuri said:
Tonight they didn't. And you need to ask the question was this the original game plan or did they move up in minutes because of their play? I would say it was the later.
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i would say it was a little of both. King's fresh legs and playing the oilers a bottom team gives them a opportunity to lessen roles of gaborik and pearson. Like i said in previous posts they earn more time but were also given a wider chance to due soto kings fresh legs imo.
 
The faceoff numbers are still abysmal but after these last two games inching towards the 50% mark, now at 49.7%. And all that can do is save strength and better our possession numbers. That's a .5% increase in just two games.
 
Sorry but Gaborik has been just a drag on any line he joins. It's why his ice time continues to dwindle. Gaborik somehow managed to only play 13 mins again, and end up a -2 player tonight.

He is struggling, has been all season.

I suspect it's why Pearson is paired with Gabo, Pearson is the new J-Dub (try and get your teammates going).
 
Anonymous028 said:
He sparked two offensive black holes.

Kinger is absolutely essential to the Kings forward group, especially considering his salary.
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well i disagree this is the oiler we are talking about here not the 1977 canadians. The oliers are not a great defensive team and we should be scoring more against teams like this. I would suggest that it was a good game against a weak team. They show up like that against the hawks dallas or nashville then its truely a spark. right now i wouldn't call it more then they had a good game.
 
In other news, the 3 points tonight gives Dustin Brown 2 more points (14) than Ryan Kesler, (12) in the battle of who really has the worst contract in the NHL.

Brown with 5 points in his last 4 games, and a bounce here or there it could have been 7 or 8. Playing much better.
 
damacles1156 said:
I agree with Weal, he has had trouble making (His) game translate on NHL ice.

It's why he keeps getting benched, he is giving Sutter nothing to work with, or build on.
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I will say, while I have always liked Weal, and seen him do a lot of real skilled stuff... I have seen him try even more.

Meaning, he is almost playing the percentages. Try a move often enough and your gonna nail it.
in the AHL games of his I had watched, I saw plenty of really good stuff, and at least a handful of him trying to do really good stuff... and it just not working.

I am starting to think the combo of facing better competition where he can't get away with ****, as well as being under scrutiny where he can't afford mistakes, therefore can't really go for it is gonna prevent him from really showing us anything? He needs to play a little more reckless, but I think maybe NHL players are too good for him to get away with that.
 
damacles1156 said:
If that was true, it would show up in Metrics, It's not there. Even his Rookie season he was ++ in all metrics that handle shot DF and CF%. You guys are remembering his once in a while blatant turnover that ended up in the net.

That happens to all Possession defenders, you don't remember the other 60+ touches Muzzin made that the correct play happens.
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Cmon now, everyone could see those happens. Muzzin had LOTS of turnovers that led directly to goals, and often at the worst possible time. He was terrible at handling pressure when he first started.

Now, I think it's one of his strengths, he's so much calmer back there. And the reason we remember those once in a while things is because he did them way more than anyone else.
 
scryan said:
I will say, while I have always liked Weal, and seen him do a lot of real skilled stuff... I have seen him try even more.

Meaning, he is almost playing the percentages. Try a move often enough and your gonna nail it.
in the AHL games of his I had watched, I saw plenty of really good stuff, and at least a handful of him trying to do really good stuff... and it just not working.

I am starting to think the combo of facing better competition where he can't get away with ****, as well as being under scrutiny where he can't afford mistakes, therefore can't really go for it is gonna prevent him from really showing us anything? He needs to play a little more reckless, but I think maybe NHL players are too good for him to get away with that.
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We have to remember that AHL production does not=NHL production.

Weal does not posses skill even on Toffoli's level. I would say Weal has very good vision, but his hands are not better than Toffoli's.

Also in the AHL Weal could get to spots where he could use his vision, in the NHL those spots are a lot harder to reach.
 
damacles1156 said:
Sorry but Gaborik has been just a drag on any line he joins. It's why his ice time continues to dwindle. Gaborik somehow managed to only play 13 mins again, and end up a -2 player tonight.

He is struggling, has been all season.

I suspect it's why Pearson is paired with Gabo, Pearson is the new J-Dub (try and get your teammates going).
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And just think of where Kopi might be if he hadn't been with him for all those weeks. He has now risen to 3rd in team scoring just 2 points off the leader.
 
Fishhead said:
Cmon now, everyone could see those happens. Muzzin had LOTS of turnovers that led directly to goals, and often at the worst possible time. He was terrible at handling pressure when he first started.

Now, I think it's one of his strengths, he's so much calmer back there. And the reason we remember those once in a while things is because he did them way more than anyone else.
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If that was true, Muzzin would not even sniff the Top 20 of advanced metrics or come close to CF60%

It's not true, if all of those Massive turn overs turned into goals, he wouldn't be a dominant defender. Even his rookie season, Muzzin had pretty impressive possession numbers, it's why a lot of us (stats guys) thought it was an anomaly, cause Muzzin was a rookie.
 
I don't know what's up with Gaborik. Honestly, he doesn't look that dissimilar from last year - flashes of speed and skill, a few nice shots. He seemed to be in the right place at the right time all of last season. I don't even think he was crashing the net as hard last year as this year.

Idk. Can't explain it.
 
Tonight Gabo was a little better at net presence. This season though, he has too many skate by's, with not planting himself there.

It's messing up his game.
 
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