LAK 5 : EDM 2 - King me!

[Herby]

Grasping for straws comparing McNabb to Muzzin. Just watch them play, there is just no comparison, Jake does basically everything better and he does some things at a much much much higher level, and that is not a knock on McNabb, Muzzin would be a #1 defenseman on quite a few teams in the NHL. McNabb just doesn't have that kind of ability.

 

[damacles1156]

Grasping for straws comparing McNabb to Muzzin. Just watch them play, there is just no comparison, Jake does basically everything better and he does some things at a much much much higher level, and that is not a knock on McNabb, Muzzin would be a #1 defenseman on quite a few teams in the NHL. McNabb just doesn't have that kind of ability.

Also Muzzin has never truly (sucked) at all in his entire career.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Sure it was touch and go, His turnovers led to some goals against.

But he wasn't terrible like people are trying to say he was. There has not been a point in Muzzin's career AT ALL, when he is on the wrong side of the metrics battle, or a none productive Defender. Every year since Muzzin has set foot on the ice for a season, he has been quite Dominant.

NEVER.

His metrics have always been solid, yes.

I was just talking to my wife last night about Muzzin being just as important to the LA blueline as Doughty. Doughty can play his 28 minutes a night, and we have another all situations defender who can play the other half of the game. Doughty and Muzzin together are the reason this team still has a stellar GAA despite the revolving door of 4-6 defensemen.

 

[Ron*]

Grasping for straws comparing McNabb to Muzzin. Just watch them play, there is just no comparison, Jake does basically everything better and he does some things at a much much much higher level, and that is not a knock on McNabb, Muzzin would be a #1 defenseman on quite a few teams in the NHL. McNabb just doesn't have that kind of ability.

Yup. Gone are the days posters here called him Muffin. Long gone.

 

[Reclamation Project]

If the Kings can somehow acquire a top 4 defenseman while keeping Muzzin and Doughty apart, lights out.

 

[cyclones22]

If that was true, it would show up in Metrics, It's not there. Even his Rookie season he was ++ in all metrics that handle shot DF and CF%.

LOL okay. Now you're just conveniently forgetting that he had bad turnovers deep in Kings territory, passing to opponents in the slot. And by the way, that's absolutely not quantifiable in advanced stats because 1 boneheaded play is going to be negligible statistically, especially if the goaltender makes the save. But whatever, everyone else here can remember it. Or just watch highlights of the Blues series in 2013. That may refresh your memory.

And nobody here is saying that Muzzin was a "terrible defender". You can be a good defender and make mistakes. Most people here are saying that you know, young players can improve with experience. If I'm remembering wrong, I apologize, but I'm fairly certain you were one of the posters here who were negative toward McNabb from the jump. Even saying something to effect that he wasn't an NHL caliber defenseman. Any time someone brings up Muzzin as a good example of what a young Kings defender can become with development, you seem to have a problem with it. But whatever, we all root for the Kings and it's strange to have this discussion after a nice win. I'm about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

hmm looks like king played 2nd most lw mins tonight

Lucic 15 44
King 14 50
Pearson 13 39
mersch 11 14

again is king really a shot in the arm to bottom 6 or had a good game in the top 6 role he played last year

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is for Ziggy.

 

[damacles1156]

LOL okay. Now you're just conveniently forgetting that he had bad turnovers deep in Kings territory, passing to opponents in the slot. And by the way, that's absolutely not quantifiable in advanced stats because 1 boneheaded play is going to be negligible statistically, especially if the goaltender makes the save. But whatever, everyone else here can remember it. Or just watch highlights of the Blues series in 2013. That may refresh your memory.

And nobody here is saying that Muzzin was a "terrible defender". You can be a good defender and make mistakes. Most people here are saying that you know, young players can improve with experience. If I'm remembering wrong, I apologize, but I'm fairly certain you were one of the posters here who were negative toward McNabb from the jump. Even saying something to effect that he wasn't an NHL caliber defenseman. Any time someone brings up Muzzin as a good example of what a young Kings defender can become with development, you seem to have a problem with it. But whatever, we all root for the Kings and it's strange to have this discussion after a nice win. I'm about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.

You people are not reading what is being typed.

ALL, Every single Defender that has the puck as much as Doughty/Muzzin ETC.

Is going to turn the puck over, USE LOGIC, if you have the puck 60% of the time, your going to at some point turn the puck over....

If you are not a CF60% player, those turn overs ARE COSTLY, because you are not a player that posses the puck that much, and it shows up in your stats.

Did Muzzin turn the puck over ? yes, were they costly ? sometimes , But it's not even close to what you people are trying to make it out to be. There is literally no point in Muzzin's
career where he has been a bad Defender.

You do not go from (Ho hum) decent, to one of the most dominant(possession) defenders the NHL has. It doesn't happen. Muzzin was a dominant(possession) defender when he entered the league.

 

[Herby]

hmm looks like king played 2nd most lw mins tonight

Lucic 15 44
King 14 50
Pearson 13 39
mersch 11 14

again is king really a shot in the arm to bottom 6 or had a good game in the top 6 role he played last year

Still no love for King, I see.

The icetime is similar with all the LW's because they were playing the second half of a back to back, the third and fourth lines were both extremely effective and earned their increased icetime and the team being up multiple goals enabled Sutter to roll 4 lines.

Unless you really think playing with Lewis and Brown was in a Top 6 role?

 

[Bandit]

You people are not reading what is being typed.

ALL, Every single Defender that has a the puck as much as Doughty/Muzzin ETC.

Is going to turn the puck over, USE LOGIC, if you have the puck 60% of the time, your going to at some point turn the puck over....

If you are not a CF60% player, those turn overs ARE COSTLY, because you are not a player that posses the puck AT ALL, and it shows up in your stats.

I'll USE LOGIC if you stop being condescending. You're entering TAFACT territory here. Muzzin was shaky as **** his first few years. Everyone seems to remember this but you. And god dammit I LIKE Muzzin!

 

[damacles1156]

I'll USE LOGIC if you stop being condescending. You're entering TAFACT territory here. Muzzin was shaky as **** his first few years. Everyone seems to remember this but you. And god dammit I LIKE Muzzin!

He wasn't and stats prove that, you have nothing but, Cause I said so.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Still no love for King, I see.

The icetime is similar with all the LW's because they were playing the second half of a back to back, the third and fourth lines were both extremely effective and earned their increased icetime and the team being up multiple goals enabled Sutter to roll 4 lines.

Unless you really think playing with Lewis and Brown was in a Top 6 role?

I said he had a good game ? What more do u want ?What one game is supposed to change my outlook on someone if hes still playing this well after 20 ill get back to you.


He still played more mins then Pearson and that makes him playing top 6 to me. A full 70 secs of ice time is a lot to me. This is my biggest critisim of king He should not be playing more mins then pearson imo Brown got more mins then Gaborik Sutter rotates brown and gaborik in top 6 mins based on whos had the better game.

 

[tsanuri]

I'll USE LOGIC if you stop being condescending. You're entering TAFACT territory here. Muzzin was shaky as **** his first few years. Everyone seems to remember this but you. And god dammit I LIKE Muzzin!

Muzzin wasn't ready for the job he was placed in for those few years. He's grown into it big time. But the mistakes he made has made him the player he is and ready for the job he has. He's our #2 but I'm not sure how many teams he'd be a #1 on.

 

[King'sPawn]

Grasping for straws comparing McNabb to Muzzin. Just watch them play, there is just no comparison, Jake does basically everything better and he does some things at a much much much higher level, and that is not a knock on McNabb, Muzzin would be a #1 defenseman on quite a few teams in the NHL. McNabb just doesn't have that kind of ability.

As far as the nuances and positioning, Muzzin is a much better player. I DO think McNabb hits harder and has a harder shot, but his individual skills he excels in aren't conducive to an improved team game like Muzzin.

I think Muzzin is a superb defender, and I have been one of his biggest supporters from the beginning. McNabb isn't as polished as Muzzin, but let's not forget Muzzin had a couple more seasons on the Monarchs to get adjusted to the new system before becoming a mainstay.

Granted, when all is said and done, Muzzin is a superior defender and I think he will continue to be the superior player, there's a big difference between 14 games on the Monarchs and 145 games on the Monarchs before becoming an NHL regular on the Kings.

LOL okay. Now you're just conveniently forgetting that he had bad turnovers deep in Kings territory, passing to opponents in the slot. And by the way, that's absolutely not quantifiable in advanced stats because 1 boneheaded play is going to be negligible statistically, especially if the goaltender makes the save. But whatever, everyone else here can remember it. Or just watch highlights of the Blues series in 2013. That may refresh your memory.

And nobody here is saying that Muzzin was a "terrible defender". You can be a good defender and make mistakes. Most people here are saying that you know, young players can improve with experience. If I'm remembering wrong, I apologize, but I'm fairly certain you were one of the posters here who were negative toward McNabb from the jump. Even saying something to effect that he wasn't an NHL caliber defenseman. Any time someone brings up Muzzin as a good example of what a young Kings defender can become with development, you seem to have a problem with it. But whatever, we all root for the Kings and it's strange to have this discussion after a nice win. I'm about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.

Damacles isn't forgetting anything. He's just asserting the narrative that Muzzin turned over the puck constantly was patently untrue. He definitely had his fair share of memorable blunders, but Muzzin's possession metrics suggest he didn't turn over the puck as often as you think.

 

[TonySCV]

Muzzin had the best teacher in the NHL with Doughty. Certainly was a factor in his development.

For the times when everyone moans how the Kings never do well in back to backs, remind them of these two games.

 

[damacles1156]

As far as the nuances and positioning, Muzzin is a much better player. I DO think McNabb hits harder and has a harder shot, but his individual skills he excels in aren't conducive to an improved team game like Muzzin.

I think Muzzin is a superb defender, and I have been one of his biggest supporters from the beginning. McNabb isn't as polished as Muzzin, but let's not forget Muzzin had a couple more seasons on the Monarchs to get adjusted to the new system before becoming a mainstay.

Granted, when all is said and done, Muzzin is a superior defender and I think he will continue to be the superior player, there's a big difference between 14 games on the Monarchs and 145 games on the Monarchs before becoming an NHL regular on the Kings.



Damacles isn't forgetting anything. He's just asserting the narrative that Muzzin turned over the puck constantly was patently untrue. He definitely had his fair share of memorable blunders, but Muzzin's possession metrics suggest he didn't turn over the puck as often as you think.

Thank you.

 

[Herby]

Just because one guy struggled and developed into a star doesn't mean Forbort and McNabb will do the same. Aki Berg and Denis Grebeshkov also struggled and never got good

I do remember Muzzin being shaky in 2013, he would play well but made some huge gaffes with the puck that lead to some goals. I don't remember him struggling at all in 2014, he was really good that entire year. And Muzzin was the same age in the 2014 season as McNabb is today and only a year older than Forbort. If either guy comes anywhere close to playing at the level Muzzin did in 2014 in the next year I'll eat a massive amount of crow, it's just not happening.
.

 

[tsanuri]

As far as the nuances and positioning, Muzzin is a much better player. I DO think McNabb hits harder and has a harder shot, but his individual skills he excels in aren't conducive to an improved team game like Muzzin.

I think Muzzin is a superb defender, and I have been one of his biggest supporters from the beginning. McNabb isn't as polished as Muzzin, but let's not forget Muzzin had a couple more seasons on the Monarchs to get adjusted to the new system before becoming a mainstay.

Granted, when all is said and done, Muzzin is a superior defender and I think he will continue to be the superior player, there's a big difference between 14 games on the Monarchs and 145 games on the Monarchs before becoming an NHL regular on the Kings.



Damacles isn't forgetting anything. He's just asserting the narrative that Muzzin turned over the puck constantly was patently untrue. He definitely had his fair share of memorable blunders, but Muzzin's possession metrics suggest he didn't turn over the puck as often as you think.

I think this is the key. It seemed like when he made a mistake it ended up in the net for awhile. But that is the growing pains if playing top D minutes when your not really ready for them.

 

[Herby]

I said he had a good game ? What more do u want ?What one game is supposed to change my outlook on someone if hes still playing this well after 20 ill get back to you.


He still played more mins then Pearson and that makes him playing top 6 to me. A full 70 secs of ice time is a lot to me. This is my biggest critisim of king He should not be playing more mins then pearson imo Brown got more mins then Gaborik Sutter rotates brown and gaborik in top 6 mins based on whos had the better game.

Generally a top 6 role is based on who you are playing with, not your amount of ice time. King was playing with Trevor Lewis and Dustin Brown, not exactly Mario Lemieux and Brett Hull.

 

[damacles1156]

Just because one guy struggled and developed into a star doesn't mean Forbort and McNabb will do the same. Aki Berg and Denis Grebeshkov also struggled and never got good

I do remember Muzzin being shaky in 2013, he would play well but made some huge gaffes with the puck that lead to some goals. I don't remember him struggling at all in 2014, he was really good that entire year. And Muzzin was the same age in the 2014 season as McNabb is today and only a year older than Forbort. If either guy comes anywhere close to playing at the level Muzzin did in 2014 in the next year I'll eat a massive amount of crow, it's just not happening.
.

Also Muzzin really only struggled in the 2013 playoffs, the first 25 games of 2013(short season), Muzzin was in the rookie of the year running.

I bet People don't know that since Muzzin has came into the league, Has has not had a year outside of the top Ten of advanced metrics for Defenders, Never.

Right up there with Doughty,PK Suban,Karlsson,....Yes Muzzin.

 

[Quattro]

Sure it was touch and go, His turnovers led to some goals against.

But he wasn't terrible like people are trying to say he was. There has not been a point in Muzzin's career AT ALL, when he is on the wrong side of the metrics battle, or a none productive Defender. Every year since Muzzin has set foot on the ice for a season, he has been quite Dominant.

and neither is McNabb

Also Muzzin has never truly (sucked) at all in his entire career.

and neither has McNabb

 

[damacles1156]

and neither is McNabb



and neither has McNabb

No one is saying McNabb is terrible, we are saying it's silly to compare the two.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Generally a top 6 role is based on who you are playing with, not your amount of ice time. King was playing with Trevor Lewis and Dustin Brown, not exactly Mario Lemieux and Brett Hull.

With Carter out that was our 2nd most mins as a line So hate to break it to they were the second line tonight. Lets also not over state a decent game against a bottom team either . Reducing Gaborik and Pearson's mins was not a bad idea either against a bottom club . Lewis brown king had a good game and earned some mins I just don't want to see this become a regular thing This team needs Pearson and lucic playing more mins then king every night.

 

[damacles1156]

King played really well, and deserved his minutes.