Speculation: LA Kings Offseason Thread

[FSL KINGS]

Speaking of getting people to watch the game, any news on if the King's are going to be televised next season?

 

[SmytheKing]

Common man. It's a hyperbolic statement. Obviously there's WAY more access to basketball. Every schoolyard in America has a basketball court. Most parks do too. And at least one house on every street has a basket ball hoop.


I don't disagree with most of what you're saying here.

I think most NHL teams do invest in local rinks/leagues. I could be wrong about that. But it's not enough to make a huge difference.

Imagine if every major school district had a high school hockey league and rink, with equipment mostly covered by the school. That might make an impact, but it's impossibly expensive. That would mean thousands and thousands of rinks being built.

I think playing pickup basketball, or just shooting hoops with your friends is super fun. Just as fun as playing in an organized league. I don't think the same is true of hockey. I won't even play hockey unless there's goalies. It's just not as fun.

You don't need to build an ice rink in every school district (though many likely have one within the district already). An inline hockey rink would be considerably less expensive and expose just as many kids to the sport.

If every high school in America had an inline-hockey team operating under the same USA hockey rules, you'd have a vast amount of kids playing it. That's not impossibly expensive if the NHL (with it's several billion dollars a year in revenue) wanted to help subsidize it. You could build a new rink for each high school for $1.5B. You wouldn't need to build that many, but you could. It's likely you could build one or two rinks for each district and it would probably cost about 1/3 of that. After that you only need to subsidize equipment cost and overhead. There's a solution to be found, but it takes the effort. The NHL is filled with people trying to make a profit over the next five years...not over the next 50.

Start with something like that, and get kids playing, interest will manifest itself after that.

 

[SmytheKing]

The best MLS game ever still couldn't top the quality of a mid-year Crystal Palace vs Wolves match.

It doesn't need to. Someone who has never had pasta before doesn't need to eat it in Naples to enjoy it the first time they do.

 

[kingsfan28]

They protected Forbert instead of McNabb so yeah the Kings gave him away. Kings knew they made a mistake cause Forbert has since played for what 3 other teams while McNabb has been a Rock on the Defense of the Stanley Cup Champions which burns my ass actually...PS If the Bruins are going to offload someone to make some Cap Space Forbert would be ripe for that I believe

Forbort was a former 1st round pick, McBadd [ yes, he was called that and the whipping boy everyone wanted gone] was not. What makes you think McNabb wouldn't have been traded too had he stayed?

 

[Surf Nutz]

I just strongly disagree. Look at the sudden uptick in interest in soccer with Messi in Miami.

Great players drive interest *if* they’re well positioned in a big market. I don’t think this is a controversial or arguable take.

I think you understand they are not great players they are multi-generational players.
Thats what it takes to move the needle more than a quarter tank

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Forbort was a former 1st round pick, McBadd [ yes, he was called that and the whipping boy everyone wanted gone] was not. What makes you think McNabb wouldn't have been traded too had he stayed?

I remember Forbert being a 1st rounder...thank Cristos we drafted Toffoli to make up for that reach...and the Kings could've had Tarasenko...kind of like we could have had Giroux instead of puck in the Pacific Ocean Lewis...Sometimes the Kings badly and plainly struck out...Forbert was that

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Looks at a map of where hockey is popular. The correlation is obvious. Hockey is more likely to be popular in cold weather areas.

The reason hockey is more popular in Minnesota than it is in Texas isn't because of marketing.

Marketing won't make hockey as popular in Missouri as it is in Maine.

Unless we have different definitions of "marketing" I don't see how marketing is the issue.

I think everyone will agree that hockey is more likely popular in cold weather areas--that falls under 'access'. That may not necessarily be 'solve'-able--yet, baseball is blowing up in canada at the expense of hockey, and the state of Texas has been lobbying hard for a second team. I don't agree with this fatalistic view of the growth of the game otherwise we may as well just fold up shop here.

I'm not going to pull the #s because I don't think we're THAT deep in the weeds, but if you're in socal, surely you will have to acknowledge the HUGE growth in youth hockey participation and infrastructure over the years. There are more people to market huge stars to, it's a huge media market anyway, it's a missed opportunity. The goal isn't to make CA hockey more popular than Maine hockey; it's to make it more popular than past CA hockey and to grow the game. That helps everyone. Hell, look at how many sunbelt players are making the NHL now. Unless we're having a semantic argument and you're going to say The Gretzky Effect has no impact on marketing.

You don't need to build an ice rink in every school district (though many likely have one within the district already). An inline hockey rink would be considerably less expensive and expose just as many kids to the sport.

If every high school in America had an inline-hockey team operating under the same USA hockey rules, you'd have a vast amount of kids playing it. That's not impossibly expensive if the NHL (with it's several billion dollars a year in revenue) wanted to help subsidize it. You could build a new rink for each high school for $1.5B. You wouldn't need to build that many, but you could. It's likely you could build one or two rinks for each district and it would probably cost about 1/3 of that. After that you only need to subsidize equipment cost and overhead. There's a solution to be found, but it takes the effort. The NHL is filled with people trying to make a profit over the next five years...not over the next 50.

Start with something like that, and get kids playing, interest will manifest itself after that.

To tie this in to the above--the local teams seem to see it in ways Uncle Gary and the Scrooge McDuck club doesn't. Look at how much the Ducks org has invested in The Rinks all over SoCal, and even the Kings and Reign have jumped in a bit. Look at the explosive growth of the Junior Kings and Junior Ducks as well as high school and local programs. SOME People are working on the grassroots things--but some mentalities like that of many owners and the fatalists are the end of it.

 

[lumbergh]

McNabb wasn't good either and he wouldn't be the player to put this team over top of anything. Too much hindsight coping. McNabb was a penalty machine while on the Kings. He was a bottom pairing guy. Good for him for developing, but at the time, it's an easy choice to leave him exposed.

Guess Drew Doughty was on that bottom pairing with McNabb that year he had his best season. Wow what a hot take.

 

[bland]

It doesn't need to. Someone who has never had pasta before doesn't need to eat it in Naples to enjoy it the first time they do.

Yeah, but we are talking two readily available televised products. You have access to both equally. I get that sometimes you just gotta have yourself some Boyardee to scratch an itch, but good lord, there is absolutely no reason to truck with a significantly worse product.

The Premier League coverage we get here is on par with HBO's old boxing presentations as the best in the business. I could watch any game and have a good time and learn something about the sport as they have the decency to treat the audience like they know the game instead of a bunch of toddlers who sat on the remote.

 

[bland]

Guess Drew Doughty was on that bottom pairing with McNabb that year he had his best season. Wow what a hot take.

That was Forbort, and its exactly why they kept him instead of McNabb.

 

[Fishhead]

That was Forbort, and its exactly why they kept him instead of McNabb.

That was not Forbort. He was in Ontario most of the year when Drew won the Norris and had his best all-around season.

Keeping Forbort over McNabb was a poor choice. Drew's metrics started going in the shitter after Forbort's one decent season.

 

[johnjm22]

Forbort over McNabb was the correct choice.

 

[johnjm22]

I think everyone will agree that hockey is more likely popular in cold weather areas--that falls under 'access'. That may not necessarily be 'solve'-able--yet, baseball is blowing up in canada at the expense of hockey, and the state of Texas has been lobbying hard for a second team. I don't agree with this fatalistic view of the growth of the game otherwise we may as well just fold up shop here.

Well yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's about access, and the NHL product itself.

I just think "the NHL doesn't market its stars" is the laziest default criticism you always hear on the these boards when it's obvious why hockey is more popular in certain areas.

I'm not going to pull the #s because I don't think we're THAT deep in the weeds, but if you're in socal, surely you will have to acknowledge the HUGE growth in youth hockey participation and infrastructure over the years. There are more people to market huge stars to, it's a huge media market anyway, it's a missed opportunity. The goal isn't to make CA hockey more popular than Maine hockey; it's to make it more popular than past CA hockey and to grow the game. That helps everyone. Hell, look at how many sunbelt players are making the NHL now. Unless we're having a semantic argument and you're going to say The Gretzky

I know you're in the IE, so am I. I wonder if we're similar ages. I just turned 40. Roller hockey participation is WAY lower in the IE now than when I was a kid. On the other hand, we do have an AHL team now.

A few years ago I was playing roller in Fontana for awhile, but that dried up also.

In California I think there's more youth ice hockey participation. It seems to me that higher end organized ice hockey has increased, but overall casual play hasn't shown much increase if at all.

When Gretzky was traded to LA in 1988, there was 27M people in this state. Today there's 39M. So naturally there's going to be an increase whether sport is more popular or not on a percentage basis.

I just don't understand what kind of marketing is going to make hockey significantly and sustainably more popular. Even LA winning the SC seemed to have minimal impact.

 

[kingsfan28]

I remember Forbert being a 1st rounder...thank Cristos we drafted Toffoli to make up for that reach...and the Kings could've had Tarasenko...kind of like we could have had Giroux instead of puck in the Pacific Ocean Lewis...Sometimes the Kings badly and plainly struck out...Forbert was that

Vladdy was too big of a risk that high, thats why he fell to 16. He'd have been top 5 without the risk. Brett Connelly went 6th and scored a whopping 101 goals in 13 years.

 

[BaileyFan]

Vladdy was too big of a risk that high, thats why he fell to 16. He'd have been top 5 without the risk. Brett Connelly went 6th and scored a whopping 101 goals in 13 years.

Well considering Forbort went at 15 it would have been no riskier for the Kings to take him than it was for the Blues.

I remember Forbort was indeed a letdown at the time but it was because everyone in the building thought they had traded up to grab the hometown boy Etem. Man that would have been a disaster.

 

[Statto]

It doesn't need to. Someone who has never had pasta before doesn't need to eat it in Naples to enjoy it the first time they do.

True. My first experience of hockey for 2-3 years was barely beer league level and it was probably some of the most fun I had watching the game and I got completely hooked.

 

[Fishhead]

Forbort over McNabb was the correct choice.

Well, one guy has bounced around with 3 teams in 4 years. The other has stayed with the team that took him and has contributed to a defense that played 80 playoff games since he went there and has won a cup.

This team also has lacked a physical defenseman for some time, which is what McNabb does.

And McNabb was cheaper than Forbort. Just like with Petersen, the team went with the small sample size of success with Forbort and made the wrong move. Doughty played light years better with McNabb than Forbort, and both the eye test and the metrics show that.

 

[Trash Panda]

Well considering Forbort went at 15 it would have been no riskier for the Kings to take him than it was for the Blues.

I remember Forbort was indeed a letdown at the time but it was because everyone in the building thought they had traded up to grab the hometown boy Etem. Man that would have been a disaster.

Etem was a gigantic swing & a miss for sure.

Man, did he have all the tools, but just couldn’t put it together.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Etem was a gigantic swing & a miss for sure.

Man, did he have all the tools, but just couldn’t put it together.

Watched Etem play for Medicine Hat when the team came to town many times! The guy could fly but that's Junior Hockey and neither himself nor the Vancouver 1st rounder(Shinkaruk) from the Tigers of Medicine Hat made a dent in the Pro ranks! Too bad for both of them

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I actually thought Nick Bjugstad is who the Kings would've gone for, considering his size and playing style being a fit to the style the team played. Coincidentally, Florida selected him with LA's original pick at 19th overall.

 

[johnjm22]

Well, one guy has bounced around with 3 teams in 4 years. The other has stayed with the team that took him and has contributed to a defense that played 80 playoff games since he went there and has won a cup.

This team also has lacked a physical defenseman for some time, which is what McNabb does.

And McNabb was cheaper than Forbort. Just like with Petersen, the team went with the small sample size of success with Forbort and made the wrong move. Doughty played light years better with McNabb than Forbort, and both the eye test and the metrics show that.

You have to make a projection on who's going to be the better more valuable player. Based on given data at the time, that was Forbort.

 

[FSL KINGS]

You have to make a projection on who's going to be the better more valuable player. Based on given data at the time, that was Forbort.

McNabb had a dimension to his game that made him useful. Forbort was just average at best. Not physical enough to fit a 3rd pairing role & not good enough for the top4. Bad pick.

 

[johnjm22]

McNabb had a dimension to his game that made him useful. Forbort was just average at best. Not physical enough to fit a 3rd pairing role & not good enough for the top4. Bad pick.

Forbort was clearly the better player at the time, and trending up, and a year younger. The correct decision was made.

People have short memories. There's a reason why they chose Forbort to protect over McNabb.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Forbort was clearly the better player at the time, and trending up, and a year younger. The correct decision was made.

People have short memories. There's a reason why they chose Forbort to protect over McNabb.

They chose Forbort likely because of his draft pedigree. He got beaten to the outside so often by the opposition, he was a turnstile who was often abused by speedy attackers, and a complete blackhole on offense, badly getting outshot whenever he was on the ice.

And the season Doughty won the Norris, he was mostly paired with McNabb.

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

NHL line combinations, NHL lineups from dobberhockey.com

frozenpool.dobbersports.com

 

[FSL KINGS]

Forbort was clearly the better player at the time, and trending up, and a year younger. The correct decision was made.

People have short memories. There's a reason why they chose Forbort to protect over McNabb.

McNabb was coming off a broken collar bone. Forbort was never special at anything. It was a bad pick. They hoped he'd develop & find something he was good at. Forbort never did. McNabb has had plenty success since & King's still need physical D.

The reason they protected Forbort was they were dumb enough to draft him in the first place.