Speculation: LA Kings Offseason Thread

[tny760]

i mean mcnabb was nothing special at the time either, his game is totally different with vegas than it was with LA

when he left i recall mostly hearing celebration here cause he had 0 ability to move the puck out of the D zone, and we wanted to chase the "smaller mobile D" train that was popping at the time

i think there's some hindsight clouding going on in the "should've kept mcnabb" argument here

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

McNabb had an awful season in 2016-17, and missed a lot of playing time.

Since arriving in Vegas, this is who his regular defensive partners have been:
Nate Schmidt, Alex Pietrangelo, Shea Theodore.

He's played with others as well, but for a good majority of his career in Vegas, it's been with those three. Having stability has helped calm his game down.

I also vividly recall exactly when the Kings ruined McNabb, and Darryl Sutter can take all the credit when he pulled him out of the lineup when he was playing well.

 

[johnjm22]

Can someone dig up the thread when it was announced who the Kings were protecting?

Forbort had a good season leading up to expansion draft. They had to choose one to protect. Forbort was clearly the better player so they chose him.

 

[johnjm22]

i mean mcnabb was nothing special at the time either, his game is totally different with vegas than it was with LA

when he left i recall mostly hearing celebration here cause he had 0 ability to move the puck out of the D zone, and we wanted to chase the "smaller mobile D" train that was popping at the time

i think there's some hindsight clouding going on in the "should've kept mcnabb" argument here

That's the thing. You have to analyze the decision based on the situation at the time. Forbort obviously made more sense to protect at the time.

Of course McNabb turned out to be the better player, no one is going to dispute that.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Well, one guy has bounced around with 3 teams in 4 years. The other has stayed with the team that took him and has contributed to a defense that played 80 playoff games since he went there and has won a cup.

This team also has lacked a physical defenseman for some time, which is what McNabb does.

And McNabb was cheaper than Forbort. Just like with Petersen, the team went with the small sample size of success with Forbort and made the wrong move. Doughty played light years better with McNabb than Forbort, and both the eye test and the metrics show that.

Again, you guys just view this through hindsight. Forbort didn't pan out, yes. That doesn't make McNabb the better option in 2018.

David Beckham was nowhere near the star Messi is. Messi has a strong case for GOAT. Beckham was never at that level.

And there has been an objective increase in social media presence and engagement with MLS and Inter Miami since the Messi signing.

Are you really arguing that star players do NOT increase interest in pro sports?

David Beckham is considered an all-time great. Maybe not THE best, but claiming he was a nobody? Come on, man. He was the most famous soccer player to play in the MLS until Messi showed up and it had the exact same fervor then as it does now, which is temporary.

 

[lumbergh]

i mean mcnabb was nothing special at the time either, his game is totally different with vegas than it was with LA

when he left i recall mostly hearing celebration here cause he had 0 ability to move the puck out of the D zone, and we wanted to chase the "smaller mobile D" train that was popping at the time

i think there's some hindsight clouding going on in the "should've kept mcnabb" argument here

Nope. I distinctly recall advocating that the Kings keep McNabb over Forbort at the time of the expansion draft. I'm pretty sure I brought up the fact that Doughty had his best season next to McNabb.

McNabb brought a physical intimidation element that has been missing on the back end since he left. Forbort was and still is the most boring defenseman to have patrolled the Kings blue line. I've talked a lot of shit about Sean Durzi, and I would much rather watch Sean Durzi than Forbort.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Nope. I distinctly recall advocating that the Kings keep McNabb over Forbort at the time of the expansion draft. I'm pretty sure I brought up the fact that Doughty had his best season next to McNabb.

I recall a tremendous amount of confusion at the time of the expansion draft about that decision.

 

[Lt Dan]

I recall a tremendous amount of confusion at the time of the expansion draft about that decision.

who(m)ever pushed for Forbort needs to be tarred, feathered, and human trafficked

 

[Statto]

Nope. I distinctly recall advocating that the Kings keep McNabb over Forbort at the time of the expansion draft. I'm pretty sure I brought up the fact that Doughty had his best season next to McNabb.

McNabb brought a physical intimidation element that has been missing on the back end since he left. Forbort was and still is the most boring defenseman to have patrolled the Kings blue line. I've talked a lot of shit about Sean Durzi, and I would much rather watch Sean Durzi than Forbort.

I preferred keeping McNabb myself but a lot of people preferred Forbert who’d come off a decent season whereas McNabb hadn’t quite put it together. It certainly wasn’t a clear decision who to protect at the time and it was debated extensively IIRC.

 

[Kudelski37]

I've stated it before that Forbort was a clone of one of McPhee's previous first round picks with the Caps, Jeff Schultz. For years McPhee never tried to add the grit those 2005-2014 Caps teams needed. It wasn't until he was fired in 2014 that the Caps went out and added defensemen that could clear the crease. It was completely logical to believe McPhee would not pick McNabb for Vegas because he never tried to acquire a player like that when he was the Caps GM.

 

[KingsHockey24]

I don't care enough to read the discussion but all I'll say is that I miss Brayden McNabb's massive hip checks every other game.

Haven't had a player do that since.

 

[kingsfan28]

Well considering Forbort went at 15 it would have been no riskier for the Kings to take him than it was for the Blues.

I remember Forbort was indeed a letdown at the time but it was because everyone in the building thought they had traded up to grab the hometown boy Etem. Man that would have been a disaster.

Forbort was a project for sure, but he didn't carry the uncertainty of playing in the KHL for years or ever going to the NHL. Most scouts knew he was better than his draft position , but GM's were scared off at wasting a top 10 pick on him.

 

[Trash Panda]

The Forbort pick sucked from day one.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the player, but he never showed the upside that warranted using a mid-first to get him.

 

[tny760]

Can someone dig up the thread when it was announced who the Kings were protecting?

Forbort had a good season leading up to expansion draft. They had to choose one to protect. Forbort was clearly the better player so they chose him.

i dug a little bit, started seeing threads about bob's retirement, faust's hiring, gabe's pick, bishop's trade and andreoff's re-signing and started to feel a little ill

should be a fun read if i can though

edit: Kings protection list leaks

this one's definitely more entertaining though Speculation: - Vegas to take McNabb

 

[KingsHockey24]

Wayne Simmonds PTO with LA incoming.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Wayne Simmonds PTO with LA incoming.

Is this a joke?

 

[Herby]

This is like choosing between Little Caesers and Chuck E Cheese for your final meal.

McNabb was a terrible trade by the Kings and Forbort was a terrible draft pick. These two make you really appreciate what Mikey Anderson has been able to become.

 

[Johnny Utah]

This is like choosing between Little Caesers and Chuck E Cheese for your final meal.

McNabb was a terrible trade by the Kings and Forbort was a terrible draft pick. These two make you really appreciate what Mikey Anderson has been able to become.

Trade?

The original trade was:

The Sabres sent McNabb, forward Jonathan Parker and two second-round draft picks to the Kings for forwards Hudson Fasching and Nicolas Deslauriers.

 

[johnjm22]

Well, one guy has bounced around with 3 teams in 4 years. The other has stayed with the team that took him and has contributed to a defense that played 80 playoff games since he went there and has won a cup.

This team also has lacked a physical defenseman for some time, which is what McNabb does.

And McNabb was cheaper than Forbort. Just like with Petersen, the team went with the small sample size of success with Forbort and made the wrong move. Doughty played light years better with McNabb than Forbort, and both the eye test and the metrics show that.

Kings protection list leaks

“@mayorNHL: Can confirm… LA Kings protected Kopitar, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson, Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, Forbort #NHLExpansionDraftâ€

forums.hfboards.com

That's funny. You seemed to be in perfect agreement that Forbort was the one to protect at the time. It was "obvious" (and you were correct. It was indeed the obvious choice).

 

[johnjm22]

They chose Forbort likely because of his draft pedigree. He got beaten to the outside so often by the opposition, he was a turnstile who was often abused by speedy attackers, and a complete blackhole on offense, badly getting outshot whenever he was on the ice.

And the season Doughty won the Norris, he was mostly paired with McNabb.

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

NHL line combinations, NHL lineups from dobberhockey.com

frozenpool.dobbersports.com

Speculation: - Vegas to take McNabb

Good thing we got Bishop! Gallant can comfortably pencil in -25 into his +/- column.

forums.hfboards.com

Confirmed with Link: - Forbort 2 year extension

Sure terms will come out soon

forums.hfboards.com

No. They chose Forbort because he was clearly and obviously the better player at the time.

And it looks like you agreed. You thought McNabb was AHL tier, and you thought Forbort had developed into a Scuderi replacement. So protecting Forbort was the obvious thing to do. And you were right.

 

[johnjm22]

Here's some of threads about McNabb going to Vegas. Most people couldn't wait to get rid of him. It's one post after another trashing him.

Speculation: - Vegas to take McNabb

forums.hfboards.com

Kings protection list leaks

“@mayorNHL: Can confirm… LA Kings protected Kopitar, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson, Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, Forbort #NHLExpansionDraftâ€

forums.hfboards.com

Who does Vegas take?

Predict who Vegas will snatch.

forums.hfboards.com

Was there a single person who thought McNabb should have been protected over Forbort in those threads?

Johnny Utah was one of the only people upset.


Conversely, you can see here how most people were positive on Forbort around the same time:

Confirmed with Link: - Forbort 2 year extension

Sure terms will come out soon

forums.hfboards.com

I think SOL was the only one critical of Forbort in that thread.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Forbort was protected because he came off his rookie season, it's as simple as that. McNabb was ruined by Sutter.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Here's some of threads about McNabb going to Vegas. Most people couldn't wait to get rid of him. It's one post after another trashing him.

Speculation: - Vegas to take McNabb

forums.hfboards.com

Kings protection list leaks

“@mayorNHL: Can confirm… LA Kings protected Kopitar, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson, Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, Forbort #NHLExpansionDraftâ€

forums.hfboards.com

Who does Vegas take?

Predict who Vegas will snatch.

forums.hfboards.com

Was there a single person who thought McNabb should have been protected over Forbort in those threads?

Johnny Utah was one of the only people upset.


Conversely, you can see here how most people were positive on Forbort around the same time:

Confirmed with Link: - Forbort 2 year extension

Sure terms will come out soon

forums.hfboards.com

I think SOL was the only one critical of Forbort in that thread.

I knew I was smart

 

[Sol]

Here's some of threads about McNabb going to Vegas. Most people couldn't wait to get rid of him. It's one post after another trashing him.

Speculation: - Vegas to take McNabb

forums.hfboards.com

Kings protection list leaks

“@mayorNHL: Can confirm… LA Kings protected Kopitar, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson, Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, Forbort #NHLExpansionDraftâ€

forums.hfboards.com

Who does Vegas take?

Predict who Vegas will snatch.

forums.hfboards.com

Was there a single person who thought McNabb should have been protected over Forbort in those threads?

Johnny Utah was one of the only people upset.


Conversely, you can see here how most people were positive on Forbort around the same time:

Confirmed with Link: - Forbort 2 year extension

Sure terms will come out soon

forums.hfboards.com

I think SOL was the only one critical of Forbort in that thread.

I’ve had detractors as long as I can remember. Back in the day this chat was full of people just straddling managements lap. But yeah it was annoying to be one of the only people who saw that Forbort was trash.


I still think McNabb is a bad dman as well. He’s better now but that’s because in Vegas he has a smaller role and simpler role. On a bad kings team he made it worse for sure. Bad mobility, blown coverages left and right , and mediocre with the puck.

Ironically I miss king trouty we actually became good friends.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Again, you guys just view this through hindsight. Forbort didn't pan out, yes. That doesn't make McNabb the better option in 2018.

David Beckham is considered an all-time great. Maybe not THE best, but claiming he was a nobody? Come on, man. He was the most famous soccer player to play in the MLS until Messi showed up and it had the exact same fervor then as it does now, which is temporary.

I never claimed Beckham was a nobody. Nice try.

Do star players drive interest in their sport or not?

We both know the answer. It baffles me why you’re being so obstinate on this point.

Hockey, basketball, baseball, we’ve seen countless boom periods for each of these sports in America. They all correlated with a new megastar player (or players) in a big market driving interest.

Again, this is not controversial nor arguable. But if you want to argue that 2+2=5 next, we can do that, too.