Speculation: LA Kings Offseason Thread

[Sol]

Big difference between violence and being tough...Kings lack toughness and they gave that away when McNabb was given to the Golden Knights instead of that p***y Forbert. Lemieux was sent packing cause the Kings would always be suspect to get a penalty on the "biter" incident. Blake and co tried to bring some toughness by drafting Ziemmer but he's a ways off and Dvorak was drafted cause of his size,physicality and hopefully he can add the toughness element too at the Pro level in NAmerica! Good to see Blake is leaving him in Czechia for the 2023-24 season where he'll play with Pro's again

How can you be tough if there’s no threat of violence? Do you think Doughty is tough? He got bitch made by Tkachuk. Did nothing about it. He runs his mouth and throws a decent hit every now and then.

What makes a person tough is not them randomly going around obliterating people, it’s more so knowing that if you push them that they would.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Looks at a map of where hockey is popular. The correlation is obvious. Hockey is more likely to be popular in cold weather areas.

The reason hockey is more popular in Minnesota than it is in Texas isn't because of marketing.

Marketing won't make hockey as popular in Missouri as it is in Maine.

Unless we have different definitions of "marketing" I don't see how marketing is the issue.

There are a few things wrong with this:

- Modern technology has advanced to the point that we can play Stanley Cup Finals games on ice in Florida in the summer. So cold weather is no longer a prerequisite for hockey.

- Even within cold weather regions, hockey has not gained traction among lower income and/or BIPOC demographics.

- Marketing absolutely made a measurable difference in the overall popularity of the sport when Gretzky was in LA. When the best players are in a big non-traditional market, the league attracts new eyeballs. We’ve watched this happen.

One of the worst things to happen to the NHL is Connor Mcdavid playing out the prime of his career in front of a couple million people in the middle of nowhere Canada.

 

[SmytheKing]

I absolutely think the lack of recreational play is one of the main issues. I think you really need to be around this sport in order to get into it. Equipment and cost are definitely barriers to entry. But even more so than that is actual rinks and areas to play the game. You can play basketball pretty much anywhere.

Most peoples exposure to hockey is having coincidentally seen it on TV a few times. And they probably think it's boring.

You need to get more people playing the game, and it needs to be a better TV product. How you do that I don't know. But that's the only way I see the sport growing significantly from here.

I've heard this for so long that I think people believe it. You can't just play basketball anywhere. You literally need a court and a hoop. You can dribble a basketball anywhere, but is that any different than me saying you can stickhandle a puck anywhere?

I grew up playing hockey in Ventura County in the late 80's. The first time I ever played three of my neighbor friends (Max, Bobby, and Dale) and I used a crushed soda can and four pieces of wood. You can play hockey anywhere you like. I'd argue that you could play in even more areas than you can in some other sports. I played on driveways, tennis courts, basketball courts, volleyball courts, handball courts, empty patches of asphalt in schools, pretty much anywhere with a hard surface. Can't do that with many other sports.

The issue is organized hockey is VERY expensive. The Kings used to have a program/clinic where for $100 I think, your kid would get a whole set of gear and get coached on how to play. Every NHL team should be doing this. Huge credit goes to the Ducks as well for the work they've done in OC with Rinks and getting kids involved in playing. I'm sure there are other examples around the country with teams too.

If the NHL truly wanted to grow the sport though, you need to invest in the community and neighborhoods that don't have that access. Build rinks, supply equipment, offer clinics, subsidize leagues, all of that. No amount of commercials or tweets is going to make any change. You need ground level work for years before you can really make a difference.

And yes, race is a factor in this. As already stated, economic disadvantages that have been established through generations of racist policy has created gaps that go much further than a kid being able to afford a pair of skates. Folks have mentioned "cultural barriers" too...but ignore that those cultural gravitations were because those leagues have embraced those communities and reached out to them. It didn't happen by accident. The NHL has done very little in that regard so it's no wonder there isn't as much interest from those groups.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Big difference between violence and being tough...Kings lack toughness and they gave that away when McNabb was given to the Golden Knights instead of that p***y Forbert. Lemieux was sent packing cause the Kings would always be suspect to get a penalty on the "biter" incident. Blake and co tried to bring some toughness by drafting Ziemmer but he's a ways off and Dvorak was drafted cause of his size,physicality and hopefully he can add the toughness element too at the Pro level in NAmerica! Good to see Blake is leaving him in Czechia for the 2023-24 season where he'll play with Pro's again

We didn't give McNabb away. Vegas picked him from a long list of exposed players. Kings couldn't protect everyone and some of those protected players were mandatory.

 

[kingsholygrail]

There are a few things wrong with this:

- Modern technology has advanced to the point that we can play Stanley Cup Finals games on ice in Florida in the summer. So cold weather is no longer a prerequisite for hockey.

- Even within cold weather regions, hockey has not gained traction among lower income and/or BIPOC demographics.

- Marketing absolutely made a measurable difference in the overall popularity of the sport when Gretzky was in LA. When the best players are in a big non-traditional market, the league attracts new eyeballs. We’ve watched this happen.

One of the worst things to happen to the NHL is Connor Mcdavid playing out the prime of his career in front of a couple million people in the middle of nowhere Canada.

It would make no difference if McDavid played in LA. Local media doesn't even know LA has a professional hockey team.

Let's be real here. If Byfield was as good as McDavid THAT would get the Kings attention locally because Byfield is black. Nobody cares that a white guy is good at hockey anymore. It worked with Gretzky because LA was still white in the 80s-90s.

 

[Trash Panda]

Man, this thread has gone full f***ing off-season on us in a hurry.

Wake me up when September ends.

 

[johnjm22]

Modern technology has advanced to the point that we can play Stanley Cup Finals games on ice in Florida in the summer. So cold weather is no longer a prerequisite for hockey.

One hockey rink per 1.3M people in Florida makes very little difference. Ice rinks are very expensive to open and maintain. In cold weather areas you can play pond hockey during winter. You can make a rink in your back yard with a garden hose. Some cities will freeze certain spots in the neighborhood or park so kids can play hockey. None of that can happen in Florida.

Even within cold weather regions, hockey has not gained traction among lower income and/or BIPOC demographics.

Do you have a link proving this? Or is this speculation? In cold weather areas there's very few minorities to begin with. Sweden, Finland, Canada, Russia very few non whites relatively speaking.

There's 34 black players in the NHL right now. It seems to me that's way more than there used to be. And it's not like the ratio of blacks to whites in the population has changed much in over time in cold weather areas I suspect.

Marketing absolutely made a measurable difference in the overall popularity of the sport when Gretzky was in LA. When the best players are in a big non-traditional market, the league attracts new eyeballs. We’ve watched this happen.

One of the worst things to happen to the NHL is Connor Mcdavid playing out the prime of his career in front of a couple million people in the middle of nowhere Canada.

When Wayne came to LA, hockey was the "4th sport". It remained the 4th sport. It might have helped increase popularity regionally, but overall hockey remained in the same place on the national landscape.

Really ask yourself, if McDavid was in Dallas right now, how much more popular would the NHL be overall? If there was a noticeable difference at all, I suspect it would be very small.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

We didn't give McNabb away. Vegas picked him from a long list of exposed players. Kings couldn't protect everyone and some of those protected players were mandatory.

They protected Forbert instead of McNabb so yeah the Kings gave him away. Kings knew they made a mistake cause Forbert has since played for what 3 other teams while McNabb has been a Rock on the Defense of the Stanley Cup Champions which burns my ass actually...PS If the Bruins are going to offload someone to make some Cap Space Forbert would be ripe for that I believe

 

[kingsholygrail]

They protected Forbert instead of McNabb so yeah the Kings gave him away. Kings knew they made a mistake cause Forbert has since played for what 3 other teams while McNabb has been a Rock on the Defense of the Stanley Cup Champions which burns my ass actually...PS If the Bruins are going to offload someone to make some Cap Space Forbert would be ripe for that I believe

McNabb wasn't good either and he wouldn't be the player to put this team over top of anything. Too much hindsight coping. McNabb was a penalty machine while on the Kings. He was a bottom pairing guy. Good for him for developing, but at the time, it's an easy choice to leave him exposed.

 

[johnjm22]

I've heard this for so long that I think people believe it. You can't just play basketball anywhere. You literally need a court and a hoop. You can dribble a basketball anywhere, but is that any different than me saying you can stickhandle a puck anywhere?

Common man. It's a hyperbolic statement. Obviously there's WAY more access to basketball. Every schoolyard in America has a basketball court. Most parks do too. And at least one house on every street has a basket ball hoop.

I grew up playing hockey in Ventura County in the late 80's. The first time I ever played three of my neighbor friends (Max, Bobby, and Dale) and I used a crushed soda can and four pieces of wood. You can play hockey anywhere you like. I'd argue that you could play in even more areas than you can in some other sports. I played on driveways, tennis courts, basketball courts, volleyball courts, handball courts, empty patches of asphalt in schools, pretty much anywhere with a hard surface. Can't do that with many other sports.

The issue is organized hockey is VERY expensive. The Kings used to have a program/clinic where for $100 I think, your kid would get a whole set of gear and get coached on how to play. Every NHL team should be doing this. Huge credit goes to the Ducks as well for the work they've done in OC with Rinks and getting kids involved in playing. I'm sure there are other examples around the country with teams too.

If the NHL truly wanted to grow the sport though, you need to invest in the community and neighborhoods that don't have that access. Build rinks, supply equipment, offer clinics, subsidize leagues, all of that. No amount of commercials or tweets is going to make any change. You need ground level work for years before you can really make a difference.

And yes, race is a factor in this. As already stated, economic disadvantages that have been established through generations of racist policy has created gaps that go much further than a kid being able to afford a pair of skates. Folks have mentioned "cultural barriers" too...but ignore that those cultural gravitations were because those leagues have embraced those communities and reached out to them. It didn't happen by accident. The NHL has done very little in that regard so it's no wonder there isn't as much interest from those groups.

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying here.

I think most NHL teams do invest in local rinks/leagues. I could be wrong about that. But it's not enough to make a huge difference.

Imagine if every major school district had a high school hockey league and rink, with equipment mostly covered by the school. That might make an impact, but it's impossibly expensive. That would mean thousands and thousands of rinks being built.

I think playing pickup basketball, or just shooting hoops with your friends is super fun. Just as fun as playing in an organized league. I don't think the same is true of hockey. I won't even play hockey unless there's goalies. It's just not as fun.

 

[psych3man]

Everything can best be understood socioeconomically.
2-parent households have much more money and resources than single parent homes.
70+% of black children are born out of wedlock (very unfortunate), 50% of hispanic children are born out of wedlock (very unfortunate), 35% of white children are born out of wedlock (too high).
Therefore white children are much more likely to be raised with two parents than both black and hispanic children.
Hockey is the most expensive and least accessible sport to just pick up and play.
Hence the overwhelming advantage to white kids, reflected at every level of playing and fandom.

(you don't see many of the NHL draftees with ony one parent vs football and basketball)

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

McNabb wasn't good either and he wouldn't be the player to put this team over top of anything. Too much hindsight coping. McNabb was a penalty machine while on the Kings. He was a bottom pairing guy. Good for him for developing, but at the time, it's an easy choice to leave him exposed.

Not sure if you watched Forbert and McNabb play much but Brayden was definitely the most physical by a mile over Derek. Derek looked better than he did playing with Doughty in reality

 

[Sol]

Man, this thread has gone full f***ing off-season on us in a hurry.

Wake me up when September ends.

At least it’s relatively interesting now lol. The conversations for a while were pretty much about the 80s kings team that no one gives a shit about nowadays lol

 

[Surf Nutz]

Roy is every bit as good as Doughty in defensive zone coverages. Ain't nobody a bigger Roy fan than me, but dude doesn't come close to Doughty in transition defense, zone clearances or generating breakouts. Like not even remotely close - and that's just in their end.

Seems like being paired with theprofeciency of Gav cleaned up a lot of that.
IMO the Kings need to extend Roy.
The defense is too powder puffish without him.

Definitely. They really need to do something to get fans interested. I think switching back to the old Allstate format would be a lot better than the junk we have now. I also think the NHL hit a homerun with the Knights and their appeal. Truly a team that stands out than most in their very limited existence. I personally don’t know what they can do. The Hockey World Cup would be a good start. Hosting important games in other countries. And not f***ing hiring fall out boy

Fall out boy is clearly a move aimed to grow a young audience to be with them and replace geezers like you that will bite the big one sooner rather than later.

Big difference between violence and being tough...Kings lack toughness and they gave that away when McNabb was given to the Golden Knights instead of that p***y Forbert. Lemieux was sent packing cause the Kings would always be suspect to get a penalty on the "biter" incident. Blake and co tried to bring some toughness by drafting Ziemmer but he's a ways off and Dvorak was drafted cause of his size,physicality and hopefully he can add the toughness element too at the Pro level in NAmerica! Good to see Blake is leaving him in Czechia for the 2023-24 season where he'll play with Pro's again

One of Blakes worst moves was protecting Forbs over McN.
Its still a problem even all these years later, impacting the current roster.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Not sure if you watched Forbert and McNabb play much but Brayden was definitely the most physical by a mile over Derek. Derek looked better than he did playing with Doughty in reality

Sure, more physical but he was a liability. That's why he was exposed.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

It would make no difference if McDavid played in LA. Local media doesn't even know LA has a professional hockey team.

Let's be real here. If Byfield was as good as McDavid THAT would get the Kings attention locally because Byfield is black. Nobody cares that a white guy is good at hockey anymore. It worked with Gretzky because LA was still white in the 80s-90s.

I just strongly disagree. Look at the sudden uptick in interest in soccer with Messi in Miami.

Great players drive interest *if* they’re well positioned in a big market. I don’t think this is a controversial or arguable take.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I just strongly disagree. Look at the sudden uptick in interest in soccer with Messi in Miami.

Great players drive interest *if* they’re well positioned in a big market. I don’t think this is a controversial or arguable take.

What sudden uptick? You mean ticket prices? He hasn't driven up interest in soccer in general. He's driven up interest in soccer in Miami. Remember when David Beckham was supposed to turn the US into a soccer country?

The only thing that would make soccer truly big here is if they shrunk the field by half and got rid of ties.

 

[kingskring]

 

[Johnny Utah]

PLD just posted a pool photo with his dog. Dude is pretty jacked.

Good to see the Kings new big gritty center takes care of himself.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Sure, more physical but he was a liability. That's why he was exposed.

Bet the Kings would like a Re-Do but hindsight is always 20-20 right?

$13.25 M is a lot of coin to stay in TO

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Does that make AMatthews the NHL's highest paid now?

 

[SettlementRichie10]

What sudden uptick? You mean ticket prices? He hasn't driven up interest in soccer in general. He's driven up interest in soccer in Miami. Remember when David Beckham was supposed to turn the US into a soccer country?

The only thing that would make soccer truly big here is if they shrunk the field by half and got rid of ties.

David Beckham was nowhere near the star Messi is. Messi has a strong case for GOAT. Beckham was never at that level.

And there has been an objective increase in social media presence and engagement with MLS and Inter Miami since the Messi signing.

Are you really arguing that star players do NOT increase interest in pro sports?

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

What sudden uptick? You mean ticket prices? He hasn't driven up interest in soccer in general. He's driven up interest in soccer in Miami. Remember when David Beckham was supposed to turn the US into a soccer country?

The only thing that would make soccer truly big here is if they shrunk the field by half and got rid of ties.

And got rid of 2 players per side and that dumb offside rule! Do they want Offense or Defense cause Offense sells...Wish hockey would go to 4 on 4 skaters per side that would an all out Offensive game with goalies becoming Shell-Shocked and suffering from a Chronic case of "PTSD"! The NHL would have what Junior has had in hockey...a 100 goal scorer...now that would more fun than "squashing Frogs"!!!

 

[bland]

The best MLS game ever still couldn't top the quality of a mid-year Crystal Palace vs Wolves match.

 

[johnjm22]

MLS is a much different situation than the NHL.

NHL is the top hockey league in the world, MLS is not.

If the best player in the world goes to to a 2nd tier league, of course it's going to help that league.

There's no player that can come from outside the NHL to have that same impact.