2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.

[Beninnola]

The Jets are not going to win the cup, most likely won't even reach the conference finals. I agree somewhat that they are overrated and ripe for the picking. But we are not the team to do that. They are going to beat us, likely in a sweep or 5 games max and deserve to be up on us 2-0. Game 1 was ours to have and if Kyrou doesn't miss on that breakaway and they don't turtle for the last 30 minutes of the game, they probably win it cleanly. But that did not happen so oh well.

But our 5on5 play is trash and has been neutered by the Jets along with our injuries. We have NO CHANCE IN HELL of beating them now. It is what it is, hopefully its a big time learning experience for people who need it and helps us down the road.

I think it’s a lot closer than it feels because the games have ended with poor play by us.

Imagine having home ice advantage as the leagues best team, facing opponents who’s got a few guys who can barely skate, playing a forward short plus a rookie on the top line and this is your result (game 2):

 

[HighNote]

John Buccigross just said in an interview this afternoon on 101.1 that he sees Snuggerud as a potential 30-40-70 guy, perhaps even as soon as next season. My more tempered expectation is that both he and Bolduc can be 25-30-55 guys next season with Top 6 deployment and > 15 minutes per night with PP time.

Add in a 40-40-80 Kyrou, a 30-40-70 Holloway and a 25-65-90 Thomas and you have the makings of a really potent Top 6 if we can upgrade the 2C position and push Neighbours and Schenn down to the 3rd line.

I've been pleasantly surprised by the details of Snuggerud's game. I figured his shot would be at an NHL level, but I was expecting most of the rest of his game to be further behind than it currently is. He's more NHL ready than I thought he would be. He looked nervous in his first game, but by the 2nd game onward he's looked solid. He still makes rookie mistakes from time to time, which is going to happen, but I have been impressed by a lot of aspects of his game that I didn't expect to be "up to speed" for the NHL yet, or to be positive abilities at this point in his development. His passing has been great. He's able to make quick passes under pressure, and it's usually on the tape or it's a quick clear. He's made a few plays that really showed glimpses of his vision as well. That quick turnaround pass through the neutral zone right on the tape of a streaking Thomas in game 2(?) comes to mind. He seems to think the game pretty quickly, at least quicker than I was expecting. He also doesn't appear to be out of place in terms of physical play either. He's throwing hits, and he's taking/avoiding hits pretty well without turning the puck over, which goes back to his quick passing/thinking/vision. He doesn't appear to be shying away from it, and he's weathered it pretty well considering how physical this series has been so far.

In short, he's a more complete player than I expected. He reminds me of when Neighbours had his 9 game stint as a rookie. Not in terms of play style, but in terms of "this guy doesn't look that out of place for a 19-20 year old." Snuggerud I think has already shown that he has more skill than Neighbours did at that stage, Neighbours was probably more physically ready.

I wouldn't be shocked if at some point Snuggerud can reach that 30-40-70 range, maybe even higher. I don't think it will be next season, though. I think your prediction is much closer to what he'll actually do next season, or at least a reasonable, high-end expectation. I do think he's going to put up more assists than I originally thought he would, based on what I've seen in this small sample size.

 

[Brian39]

I've been pleasantly surprised by the details of Snuggerud's game. I figured his shot would be at an NHL level, but I was expecting most of the rest of his game to be further behind than it currently is. He's more NHL ready than I thought he would be. He looked nervous in his first game, but by the 2nd game onward he's looked solid. He still makes rookie mistakes from time to time, which is going to happen, but I have been impressed by a lot of aspects of his game that I didn't expect to be "up to speed" for the NHL yet, or to be positive abilities at this point in his development. His passing has been great. He's able to make quick passes under pressure, and it's usually on the tape or it's a quick clear. He's made a few plays that really showed glimpses of his vision as well. That quick turnaround pass through the neutral zone right on the tape of a streaking Thomas in game 2(?) comes to mind. He seems to think the game pretty quickly, at least quicker than I was expecting. He also doesn't appear to be out of place in terms of physical play either. He's throwing hits, and he's taking/avoiding hits pretty well without turning the puck over, which goes back to his quick passing/thinking/vision. He doesn't appear to be shying away from it, and he's weathered it pretty well considering how physical this series has been so far.

In short, he's a more complete player than I expected. He reminds me of when Neighbours had his 9 game stint as a rookie. Not in terms of play style, but in terms of "this guy doesn't look that out of place for a 19-20 year old." Snuggerud I think has already shown that he has more skill than Neighbours did at that stage, Neighbours was probably more physically ready.

I wouldn't be shocked if at some point Snuggerud can reach that 30-40-70 range, maybe even higher. I don't think it will be next season, though. I think your prediction is much closer to what he'll actually do next season, or at least a reasonable, high-end expectation. I do think he's going to put up more assists than I originally thought he would, based on what I've seen in this small sample size.

I've been extremely impressed by his passing.

His passes that are directly to a player are crisp with some real zip behind them. I think one reason his passing didn't stand out as a clear strength in college is because his teammates didn't have the hands to consistently receive such hard passes and immediately be ready to do something with the puck. NHL players have that skill and are able to handle the pass and then do something with the puck as the defender is still catching up to the hard pass. A lot of young guys take a while to figure out 'how' they should be passing the puck at the NHL level, but it seems like Snuggy's default setting is NHL-style passing and he might have struggled to dial it back to NCAA-level teammates. He's had a couple passes back to the point that got on our D man extremely quick and wouldn't have gotten there without the zip on it. Our D men accepted the passes easily, but a lot of college D men are going to miss that pass or have to get a hand/skate behind it, which allows the D to set.

But he is also pretty good at softly putting the puck to an area when a direct passing lane isn't available. I wonder if he developed that skill because he got tired of teammates handling his strong passes like a grenade.

I could be way off in my rationale for not seeing the passing skill at the NCAA level, but I watched a non-insignificant number of his college minutes and never saw his passing look as good as it already does at the NHL level.

 

[taylord22]

I've been extremely impressed by his passing.

His passes that are directly to a player are crisp with some real zip behind them. I think one reason his passing didn't stand out as a clear strength in college is because his teammates didn't have the hands to consistently receive such hard passes and immediately be ready to do something with the puck. NHL players have that skill and are able to handle the pass and then do something with the puck as the defender is still catching up to the hard pass. A lot of young guys take a while to figure out 'how' they should be passing the puck at the NHL level, but it seems like Snuggy's default setting is NHL-style passing and he might have struggled to dial it back to NCAA-level teammates. He's had a couple passes back to the point that got on our D man extremely quick and wouldn't have gotten there without the zip on it. Our D men accepted the passes easily, but a lot of college D men are going to miss that pass or have to get a hand/skate behind it, which allows the D to set.

But he is also pretty good at softly putting the puck to an area when a direct passing lane isn't available. I wonder if he developed that skill because he got tired of teammates handling his strong passes like a grenade.

I could be way off in my rationale for not seeing the passing skill at the NCAA level, but I watched a non-insignificant number of his college minutes and never saw his passing look as good as it already does at the NHL level.

Agree. Another factor I'm assigning in the difference between his college/NHL game is he's playing a far more cerebral game at the NHL level than I ever noticed or would've assumed from his NCAA play. A huge chunk of that is linemates, but he genuinely looks like he thinks the game the same way as Buch/Thomas. It doesn't appear like they're having to carry him through the play, which is really impressive. He's very engaged and ready.

Him being thrown out with Moore more times than not is growing more and more baffling. Moore is a good hockey player, but cerbral is one of the last descriptors I would use for him.

The one thing I'd like to see more of, and I think it will come, is for him to settle into his shooting lanes. If you watch him closely - he finds them out of instinct, but he doesn't settle into them for long. Still very jittery and doesn't quite trust himself.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I’ve also been pleasantly surprised with Snuggy so far. He’s not dominating or anything but he’s adapted to the NHL better than I expected. Perhaps Brian is onto something with us missing some of skill because of the lack of skill from some of his college teammates. I watched over half of his games this season and the aspect I value the most in players is hockey sense and I still appear to have undervalued his hockey sense a bit (probably. We had to admit it’s still very early and he may come back down to Earth).

 

[BlueMed]

I have more confidence in Jimmy becoming a consistent top 6 player next year than I do with Neighbours. Jake seems to have an extremely high level of maturity, which allowed him to reach what appears to be his ceiling early on. Snuggerud is just scratching the surface right now. I expect him to put on 10-15 pounds of muscle over the off-season and come prepared next season to potentially play on Thomas' wing full-time.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I have more confidence in Jimmy becoming a consistent top 6 player next year than I do with Neighbours. Jake seems to have an extremely high level of maturity, which allowed him to reach what appears to be his ceiling early on. Snuggerud is just scratching the surface right now. I expect him to put on 10-15 pounds of muscle over the off-season and come prepared next season to potentially play on Thomas' wing full-time.

A Blues roster that is contending would have guys like Neighbors on the 3rd line. I’m not sure if that is next season already, but it wouldn’t surprise me if, and I wouldn’t take it as a sign Neighbors was failing.

 

[TheOrganist]

I like Jake. He’ll be a valuable part of the team for many years barring a trade but he’s been playing at the very least a line too high for his skill set at even strength and will be pushed down to his rightful spot once our more higher end, young offensive talent start making their way to the big club.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think too many assumed Snuggy was a poor skating Hoffman, where his only asset was his shot. His shot is his skill that can put him in the upper tier of players, but he's always had very good offensive sense/IQ. And the drop off in linemate talent from his freshman year to his next 2 was pretty significant. Talented players need talented linemates for those little skillful plays to work.

 

[Brian39]

I have more confidence in Jimmy becoming a consistent top 6 player next year than I do with Neighbours. Jake seems to have an extremely high level of maturity, which allowed him to reach what appears to be his ceiling early on. Snuggerud is just scratching the surface right now. I expect him to put on 10-15 pounds of muscle over the off-season and come prepared next season to potentially play on Thomas' wing full-time.

I'm not confident that we're seeing Neighbours at his ceiling.

The way he utilizes his teammates when he has the puck is drastically better than it was 12 months ago. Going from 5 even strength assists last year to 18 this year is a huge jump. Far fewer O zone possessions die on his stick now and I also think that he took a (smaller) step forward defensively from last season. He had 35 more hits this year and 11 more blocks while significantly improving his possession numbers, which supports my eye test that he is better positioning himself to be useful while we defend vs simply chasing more while we don't have the puck.

I'm not ready to say that a 23 year old has hit his ceiling when I haven't actually seen stagnation yet. I've seen Neighbours take big strides forward in 2 straight seasons and I don't see anything that tells me he can't continue to improve. Maybe he does stagnate, but I'm not writing off his ability to be a 55+ point player and/or continue to improve defensively.

Now, I also think Snuggy has a higher ceiling than Neighbours, but I've thought that for 2+ years now. He and Dvorsky have been our consensus top 2 prospects since the day we drafted Dvorsky and a lot of sources ranked Snuggy higher than Dvorsky. Snuggy passing Neighbours on the NHL depth chart doesn't tell me much about the player Neighbours is going to eventually become. It tells me that Snuggy is becomming the player we all hoped.

 

[Reality Czech]

I have more confidence in Jimmy becoming a consistent top 6 player next year than I do with Neighbours. Jake seems to have an extremely high level of maturity, which allowed him to reach what appears to be his ceiling early on. Snuggerud is just scratching the surface right now. I expect him to put on 10-15 pounds of muscle over the off-season and come prepared next season to potentially play on Thomas' wing full-time.

I continue to be confused why so many assume Neighbours has already reached his ceiling at the age of 23 but I guess the narrative is entrenched at this point. Never seen a young 27 goal scorer dismissed so much before. He's the Rodney Dangerfield of the team for sure.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I continue to be confused why so many assume Neighbours has already reached his ceiling at the age of 23 but I guess the narrative is entrenched at this point. Never seen a young 27 goal scorer dismissed so much before. He's the Rodney Dangerfield of the team for sure.

I think its mostly frustration with the way he's currently playing. No shots on goal registered in the last 6 games. 3 goals in his last 15 games. Shooting percentage at 18.0% compared to 18.6% last year when he potted 27 and averaging around the same amount of TOI per game. And probably the biggest issue I've had is the compete on the ice. Prime example Game 2 vs. WPG. Juicy rebound on the PP in the slot with a wide open net and the Jet player outworks him to clear it down the ice.

The eye test and some of the underlying stats indicate he's disappeared at a time when we need him to step up.

 

[BlueDream]

I think its mostly frustration with the way he's currently playing. No shots on goal registered in the last 6 games. 3 goals in his last 15 games. Shooting percentage at 18.0% compared to 18.6% last year when he potted 27 and averaging around the same amount of TOI per game. And probably the biggest issue I've had is the compete on the ice. Prime example Game 2 vs. WPG. Juicy rebound on the PP in the slot with a wide open net and the Jet player outworks him to clear it down the ice.

The eye test and some of the underlying stats indicate he's disappeared at a time when we need him to step up.

I get that but people have to keep in mind that this is his very first playoff series and he’s still so young, having just turned 23 a few weeks ago. Counting on him and any of our rookies to step up is a tall ask and it’s why there shouldn’t be expectations to win right now. This year is all about simply getting experience because we don’t have the horses to do any real damage. As far as him getting outworked, I mean we just may not have all the facts. Maybe he’s playing banged up. Or the Jets are just that much more desperate since all the pressure is on them.

A lot of the Neighbours discussion reminds me of the early days of both Oshie and Perron. Everyone was labeling them as playoff chokers because in fairness, they did disappear when it mattered. But suddenly, they figured it out and weren’t chokers anymore, and both ended up being major contributors to Cup winners. So, patience is key. With Neighbours’ style of play, I envision the same thing will happen to him one day. He’ll figure it out.

 

[Brian39]

I think its mostly frustration with the way he's currently playing. No shots on goal registered in the last 6 games.

He had 2 shots on goal in game 1.

3 goals in his last 15 games.

That's a 16 goal pace and an additional goal in the sample would have him right at the 22 goal pace he played at over the full season. Worth noting that he also has 6 assists in those 15 games, so we're talking about a 49 point pace in that 15 games stretch (which would be a career-best if done over 82 games). This really isn't an indictment of his play.

He also had 3 goals and 5 points in the 3 games immediately prior to this 15 game sample.

Shooting percentage at 18.0% compared to 18.6% last year when he potted 27 and averaging around the same amount of TOI per game.

That's not even a statistically significant drop. Turning one saved shot into a goal this year would have him at 18.8%. Turning one post or shot wide into a goal would have him at 18.7%. A 0.6% dip in shooting percentage means that you score 1 fewer goal every 167 shots on goal. Shooting 18% this year after shooting 18.6% last year is fantastic. That's a great shooting percentage that puts him 42nd in the league among guys with 30+ games played. Repeating it is an accomplishment. His development/advancement as a player was simply never going to be based on further increasing his shooting percentage because it really doesn't get much better than that. The league leader shot 24.4% and played just 32 games. 2nd place was 22.2%. There's not much room to improve from 18%.

And probably the biggest issue I've had is the compete on the ice. Prime example Game 2 vs. WPG. Juicy rebound on the PP in the slot with a wide open net and the Jet player outworks him to clear it down the ice.

The eye test and some of the underlying stats indicate he's disappeared at a time when we need him to step up.

He has an assist (where he made two smart/hard plays) in game 1 and in one of the two games he was on the matchup assignment against the top line of the President's Trophy winner. It's his first playoff experience. Speaking of compete, what about the battle he won midway through the 2nd period to prevent Lowry from burying a rebound that skipped past Bolduc while Binner was sliding the wrong way?

Is he playing perfectly right now? Absolutely not. But it isn't like he's doing nothing. I don't see a player not competing, I see a player who is a little bit of a deer in the headlights with his first experience of how physicality and puck battles change during the playoffs. That doesn't at all tell me that he's reached his ceiling. I'm sorry, but these feel like incredible nits to pick over a super small sample that happens to be the most intense games of his career. I don't see how any of this suggests that he's not capable of further development.

 

[WeWentBlues]

He had 2 shots on goal in game 1.


That's a 16 goal pace and an additional goal in the sample would have him right at the 22 goal pace he played at over the full season. Worth noting that he also has 6 assists in those 15 games, so we're talking about a 49 point pace in that 15 games stretch (which would be a career-best if done over 82 games). This really isn't an indictment of his play.

He also had 3 goals and 5 points in the 3 games immediately prior to this 15 game sample.


That's not even a statistically significant drop. Turning one saved shot into a goal this year would have him at 18.8%. Turning one post or shot wide into a goal would have him at 18.7%. A 0.6% dip in shooting percentage means that you score 1 fewer goal every 167 shots on goal. Shooting 18% this year after shooting 18.6% last year is fantastic. That's a great shooting percentage that puts him 42nd in the league among guys with 30+ games played. Repeating it is an accomplishment. His development/advancement as a player was simply never going to be based on further increasing his shooting percentage because it really doesn't get much better than that. The league leader shot 24.4% and played just 32 games. 2nd place was 22.2%. There's not much room to improve from 18%.


He has an assist (where he made two smart/hard plays) in game 1 and in one of the two games he was on the matchup assignment against the top line of the President's Trophy winner. It's his first playoff experience. Speaking of compete, what about the battle he won midway through the 2nd period to prevent Lowry from burying a rebound that skipped past Bolduc while Binner was sliding the wrong way?

Is he playing perfectly right now? Absolutely not. But it isn't like he's doing nothing. I don't see a player not competing, I see a player who is a little bit of a deer in the headlights with his first experience of how physicality and puck battles change during the playoffs. That doesn't at all tell me that he's reached his ceiling. I'm sorry, but these feel like incredible nits to pick over a super small sample that happens to be the most intense games of his career. I don't see how any of this suggests that he's not capable of further development.

I don't think he's reached his ceiling either. And wasn't using shooting % to explain a drop-off but rather he should be shooting more than he has been. Not in the Neighbours whipping boy camp but some of our guys need to start playing better this series. Was initially responding to why the criticism of Neighbours amongst a growing number of fans. (Note: I misread the stats from Game 1 on the shots so disregard that.)