Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Gjwrams]

All I know is the longer the Kings try to live in two worlds--appease the vets and push the playoffs vs. develop the youth--their two goals will be at odds and we'll all suffer. The deadline scares the shit out of me right now.

me as well RJ. I’m hoping little to nothing is done.

 

[KingsFan7824]

All I know is the longer the Kings try to live in two worlds--appease the vets and push the playoffs vs. develop the youth--their two goals will be at odds and we'll all suffer. The deadline scares the shit out of me right now.

Are they at odds?

 

[Trash Panda]

Are they at odds?

Absolutely they are.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Absolutely they are.

Bullshit,

Then teams like Minnesota, are doing it wrong as well? Appeasing vets like Zuccarello, Goligoski, Foligno, Spurgeon, Talbot, while developing Boldy, Karpirzov, Fiala, Eriksso-Ek

Or teams like St Louis appeasing ROR, Schenn, Tarasenko, Perron, Krug, while developing Kyrou, Thomas, Kostin

Or Washington appeasing Ovechkin, Carlson, Orlov, Eller, Backstrom, Oshie, while developing McMichael, Protas, Leason, Samsonov

Or Tampa, with Hedman, Stamkos, Perry, Palat, McDonagh, Maroon while developing Raddysh, Foote, Cernak, Katchouk,

Absolutely insane how all those other teams are doing the same damn thing LA is.....but they are wonders of the NHL....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Bullshit,

Then teams like Minnesota, are doing it wrong as well? Appeasing vets like Zuccarello, Goligoski, Foligno, Spurgeon, Talbot, while developing Boldy, Karpirzov, Fiala, Eriksso-Ek

Or teams like St Louis appeasing ROR, Schenn, Tarasenko, Perron, Krug, while developing Kyrou, Thomas, Kostin

Or Washington appeasing Ovechkin, Carlson, Orlov, Eller, Backstrom, Oshie, while developing McMichael, Protas, Leason, Samsonov

Or Tampa, with Hedman, Stamkos, Perry, Palat, McDonagh, Maroon while developing Raddysh, Foote, Cernak, Katchouk,

Absolutely insane how all those other teams are doing the same damn thing LA is.....but they are wonders of the NHL....

Those are teams with their window firmly wide open who are playing kids in key spots to supplement their Cup chances. They're not teams stuck between contending and rebuilding. no one will mistake any of those teams for a rebuilding squad.

To frame it for the conversation--I expect a team like Tampa or STL to swing around prospects and picks like it's nobodys' business in chase of a Cup. I don't expect LA to do that, they're not in the same position. Cup is primary, development is secondary--LA should be in the opposite bin but they're kind of floating in neither bin right now.

 

[Steve Zissou]

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Those are teams with their window firmly wide open who are playing kids in key spots to supplement their Cup chances. They're not teams stuck between contending and rebuilding. no one will mistake any of those teams for a rebuilding squad.

To frame it for the conversation--I expect a team like Tampa or STL to swing around prospects and picks like it's nobodys' business in chase of a Cup. I don't expect LA to do that, they're not in the same position. Cup is primary, development is secondary--LA should be in the opposite bin but they're kind of floating in neither bin right now.

Yet somehow, you have it in your head that's EXACTLY what they are going to do...it's goddamn insane....

You really think Minnesota has more of a chance than LA.....all things equal and healthy?

Shit, I will give you Tampa and St. Louis....but there are several other teams that are right on LA's level, and everyone shitting themselves because of oohhh Blake...or ooohhh Turcotte....

Do I think they should trade Byfeild for Chara, of course not, but f*** man, everyone is acting like if they trade a mid rounder 1st in a shit draft, and 2 prospects, for some help....be it scoring, LD, or the goddamn trainer, then LA's future....is gonna be irrevocably damaged.

C depth - Byfield, Turcotte, JAD, Thomas, Pinelli, Madden, Kupari, Helenius,
W depth - Chromiak, Fagemo, Kaliyev,
D depth - Bjornstrom, Durzi, Faber, Clarke, Spence, Grans, Strand, Moveare,

I mean holy christ....the biggest issue is identifying which ones will make it....but you aren't playing all of those....

 

[KingsFan7824]

Absolutely they are.

Where? All we do is complain about Kopitar's ice time, and how Byfield isn't being given every chance. What goals are at odds? What?!?!?!? Kaliyev is still with Lizotte!?!?!?!? They've clearly picked a goal to move toward. Most of the prospects are still sitting in Ontario, stewing in development. And will be for years it looks like, especially on defense, because a lot of guys aren't going anywhere soon. Plus they should have some cap space, and if they use that, it's another spot or two that won't be available for prospects.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Where? All we do is complain about Kopitar's ice time, and how Byfield isn't being given every chance. What goals are at odds? What?!?!?!? Kaliyev is still with Lizotte!?!?!?!? They've clearly picked a goal to move toward. Most of the prospects are still sitting in Ontario, stewing in development. And will be for years it looks like, especially on defense, because a lot of guys aren't going anywhere soon. Plus they should have some cap space, and if they use that, it's another spot or two that won't be available for prospects.

Bringing in Darnault, Arvidsson and Edler was "placating" the veterans..... you know instead of throwing kids in key spots....

I mean f***, without Danault, our lineup down the middle is Kopitar - Kid A - Kid B - Lizotte..... I guess people are ok with looking like shit if it means playing kids who clearly weren't ready....

 

[Kingspiracy]

What are we looking like longterm between the pipes?

Quick cant last forever, Is Petey the answer?

Do we have any goalie prospects that look legit?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Where? All we do is complain about Kopitar's ice time, and how Byfield isn't being given every chance. What goals are at odds? What?!?!?!? Kaliyev is still with Lizotte!?!?!?!? They've clearly picked a goal to move toward. Most of the prospects are still sitting in Ontario, stewing in development. And will be for years it looks like, especially on defense, because a lot of guys aren't going anywhere soon. Plus they should have some cap space, and if they use that, it's another spot or two that won't be available for prospects.

So what you're saying is they've committed to halfassedly going for it with the vets accomplishing nothing while the youth are mostly sitting on the sideline.

How is that different than what I said other than using different words?



Edit: I say that fully acknowledging we're in a good spot and likely playoff bound while showing improvement. My worry is they make some crazy go-for-it move by mis-assessing where we truly are..with a fading Kopitar who is the ONLY kings C losing the 5v5 battle and veteran-manned special teams who are bombing in league-bottom-tier fashion. Just because guys ARE Playing more minutes doesn't mean they SHOULD be playing more minutes and that's what's hurting the longer term.

 

[kilowatt]

Those are teams with their window firmly wide open who are playing kids in key spots to supplement their Cup chances. They're not teams stuck between contending and rebuilding. no one will mistake any of those teams for a rebuilding squad.

To frame it for the conversation--I expect a team like Tampa or STL to swing around prospects and picks like it's nobodys' business in chase of a Cup. I don't expect LA to do that, they're not in the same position. Cup is primary, development is secondary--LA should be in the opposite bin but they're kind of floating in neither bin right now.

I get it but we’re “floating” in second place in the division and like 10 rookies have played on the team this year. I sure wouldn’t be upset if we slowly rolled one or two rookies onto the team every year for the next ten years. Just a Theseus’ Ship of prospects for the next decade.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I get it but we’re “floating” in second place in the division and like 10 rookies have played on the team this year. I sure wouldn’t be upset if we slowly rolled one or two rookies onto the team every year for the next ten years. Just a Theseus’ Ship of prospects for the next decade.

Yeah to be clear I'm 95% fine with where we are at. My gripes lie with the handling of the youth. But what happens next matters because right now we're pretending we're a veteran team when it's pretty clear Kopitar is slowing down (he's the only C losing the 5v5 GF/GA battle), Brown is done, and the special teams in the tank are largely manned by the vets ... if our next move is to pretend we're a contender with a trade, it'll be an issue for me. If it's a move that's at least now and future, I can stomach it.

 

[Gjwrams]

I get it but we’re “floating” in second place in the division and like 10 rookies have played on the team this year. I sure wouldn’t be upset if we slowly rolled one or two rookies onto the team every year for the next ten years. Just a Theseus’ Ship of prospects for the next decade.

and that is why I hate trading picks for players.

 

[kilowatt]

and that is why I hate trading picks for players.

I don’t mind trading a pick, but first round picks in consecutive years is so brutal. That’s how we got to where we are. I definitely wouldn’t be opposed to trading one of Vilardi, Turcotte, or Kupari given the right deal though.

Forsberg is a great example. If he would sign an extension, I’d trade Turcotte, Grans, Walker, and a 1st without blinking. Getting an elite, game-changing talent would go a long way for this team, and it would help our prospects significantly too.

The way I see it, a successful future for this team looks like 1/3 of our first and second round picks making the team, 1/3 of them traded, and 1/3 just plain failing. There are only so many roster spots, so let’s construct the best roster we can.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don’t mind trading a pick, but first round picks in consecutive years is so brutal. That’s how we got to where we are. I definitely wouldn’t be opposed to trading one of Vilardi, Turcotte, or Kupari given the right deal though.

Forsberg is a great example. If he would sign an extension, I’d trade Turcotte, Grans, Walker, and a 1st without blinking. Getting an elite, game-changing talent would go a long way for this team, and it would help our prospects significantly too.

The way I see it, a successful future for this team looks like 1/3 of our first and second round picks making the team, 1/3 of them traded, and 1/3 just plain failing. There are only so many roster spots, so let’s construct the best roster we can.

There's certainly a quality vs. quantity element we have to address. I'm fully on board there. I don't want to make it sound like I'm opposed to moving anything at all, even if there's a bit of an age difference. I'm just worried of buying in too hard this year when it's actually possible--arguably even probable--that we might be a worse team next year as vets age and youth aren't yet ready (and IMO that's due to poor usage, not sheer 'readiness').

 

[kilowatt]

There's certainly a quality vs. quantity element we have to address. I'm fully on board there. I don't want to make it sound like I'm opposed to moving anything at all, even if there's a bit of an age difference. I'm just worried of buying in too hard this year when it's actually possible--arguably even probable--that we might be a worse team next year as vets age and youth aren't yet ready (and IMO that's due to poor usage, not sheer 'readiness').

I agree. I just don't think we've really gone all-in this year. We gave up a second and a third for Arvidsson, that's it. And he's second on our team in both points and goals! That's pretty damn good value.

Do you know who would instantly be first on our team in scoring if we traded for him? JT Miller. Let's assume it would cost Vilardi, Grans, and a first to acquire him. He'd instantly be the most impactful player on our team. More than Kopitar, Doughty, Danault, Arvidsson, and Kempe. He's got 22 goals and 63 points in 55 games. Grans is going to have a hard time cracking the current defense with Doughty, Roy, Walker, and Durzi, nevermind guys like Clarke, Faber, and Spence coming in! So the question in my mind is this: Will Vilardi and a 1st ever be better than JT Miller, who is at worst a play-driving 60-point center but appears to be hitting his prime right now?

Even with trading away Vilardi (or swap in Kupari or Turcotte) and Grans (or swap in Spence or Faber or Durzi), we still have arguably the best prospect pool in the league, and Miller's signed for another year at a lower cap hit than Dustin Brown. Like, JT Miller is literally everything we talk about wanting on this team. An excellent goal scorer who throws big hits and has an attitude. This is a legitimate cup contending offense:

Byfield - Kopitar - Kempe
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson
Iafallo - Miller - Kaliyev
Lemieux - Lizotte - Brown

Not a single team in the entire league would feel good trying to match up with those four centers for an entire playoff series. Not one. That's Pittsburgh-level depth. Good f***ing luck.

And like I said, trading for Miller still leaves us with the best prospect pool in the league! I still don't even think that's approaching all-in!

Then next year, when Brown hopefully retires, you've got JAD on the fourth line.

 

[KINGS17]

All I know is the longer the Kings try to live in two worlds--appease the vets and push the playoffs vs. develop the youth--their two goals will be at odds and we'll all suffer. The deadline scares the shit out of me right now.

The answer is easy and obvious. F the vets.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Head 1st into the boards & day to day with a lower body injury. This is not surprising from Arvidsson. Just something off with him. Love the crazy little Viking.

Blake loves vets. Wants a cheap addition & needs a left D. I was half joking about the OEL thing. (AZ retained so his cap is 7.2 or so). A list of cheap to acquire vet D might be intresting to see what Blake's options are.

 

[kilowatt]

Head 1st into the boards & day to day with a lower body injury. This is not surprising from Arvidsson. Just something off with him. Love the crazy little Viking.

Blake loves vets. Wants a cheap addition & needs a left D. I was half joking about the OEL thing. (AZ retained so his cap is 7.2 or so). A list of cheap to acquire vet D might be intresting to see what Blake's options are.

A few that pop into my head: Carson Soucy, Calvin de Haan, Nick Leddy, Ben Chiarot, and Mark Giordano.

Don’t forget that we get one back for free in Alex Edler, and if we’re being honest, Maatta’s been playing pretty well lately.

 

[apocalypse]

Where are all the Petersen and AA haters?

 

[kilowatt]

Where are all the Petersen and AA haters?

I can both cheer for AA right now and hope he's not on the team next season. These aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[unicornpig]

I don't mind them giving up a 1st if its a player with term. I don't mind them acquiring a rental for a playoff push as long as it's cheap

 

[unicornpig]

I can both cheer for AA right now and hope he's not on the team next season. These aren't mutually exclusive.

This

 

[kinghock]

What are we looking like longterm between the pipes?

Quick cant last forever, Is Petey the answer?

Do we have any goalie prospects that look legit?

no, we do not