Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[King'sPawn]

Huge cope, but not really falsifiable, I guess.

Edit: Actually, no, you can’t say this for Turcotte. The kid is not even consistent in the AHL, and has been passed on the depth chart by other prospects in the system.

The Kings would be better in every conceivable way if they had drafted Zegras instead. This is inarguable.

For certain, Zegras would have been healthier and likely in the NHL. I'm not saying the Kings are better off with Turcotte. I'm saying it's arguable if Zegras would be in the same situation in LA as he is in Anaheim.

 

[Sol]

For certain, Zegras would have been healthier and likely in the NHL. I'm not saying the Kings are better off with Turcotte. I'm saying it's arguable if Zegras would be in the same situation in LA as he is in Anaheim.

Eh, I’ll have to disagree. If Zegras showed the talent he did on the Ducks on the Kings, I have a hard time thinking they’d purposefully bomb him.

He’s much more talented than any forward we have. This isn’t debatable. So it’s hard to say he’d be riding pine while being so dynamic offensively. None of our forwards have been anything close to being dynamic offensively which is why there’s a debate about them being bad because of lack of icetime/development or they’re just not good enough which is why they’re not playing much.

 

[KingsFan7824]

That 2003 could been a total bust had Jasseman not been taken by the Rags. The lack of vision by Al Murray was staggering. Richard, Carter, Parise all there to be taken had they even attempted to move up. Even if they got 1st in 08' Dean would've been savvy and got another pick out of Tampa to switch spots. It was Doughty all along from what he said.

Obviously there's no true way of knowing, because the Kings were simply not in that position, but if they get 1st in 08, I don't think he turns down Stamkos. Easy to say it was always Doughty, but again, we'll never know what would've happened. Stamkos has been pretty good too. Kopitar/Stamkos, that could've been pretty lethal.

That they won after taking Brown in 2003, is all that matters, but there were better players to pick. Nobody here complains about that though, like we have with Barzal/Conner, and currently with Zegras. Two chances to pick Perry in the two picks before Anaheim. Why aren't we seeing book length posts being written about the comparison between Boyle, Tambellini, and Perry? Well because they won. Whatever happened in 2003 doesn't matter, they won.

If they ever win again relatively soon, guess whose name we'll never hear again? Zegras. Crazy how that works.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Obviously there's no true way of knowing, because the Kings were simply not in that position, but if they get 1st in 08, I don't think he turns down Stamkos. Easy to say it was always Doughty, but again, we'll never know what would've happened. Stamkos has been pretty good too. Kopitar/Stamkos, that could've been pretty lethal.

That they won after taking Brown in 2003, is all that matters, but there were better players to pick. Nobody here complains about that though, like we have with Barzal/Conner, and currently with Zegras. Two chances to pick Perry in the two picks before Anaheim. Why aren't we seeing book length posts being written about the comparison between Boyle, Tambellini, and Perry? Well because they won. Whatever happened in 2003 doesn't matter, they won.

If they ever win again relatively soon, guess whose name we'll never hear again? Zegras. Crazy how that works.

Said the same thing in a post from yesterday...if we are a perennial contender within next 3-5 years, regardless of the roster, nobody will give a flying f*** if these 1st rounders are flops.

 

[Sol]

How are the kings going to be contenders if the first round picks are flops…

 

[King'sPawn]

Eh, I’ll have to disagree. If Zegras showed the talent he did on the Ducks on the Kings, I have a hard time thinking they’d purposefully bomb him.

He’s much more talented than any forward we have. This isn’t debatable. So it’s hard to say he’d be riding pine while being so dynamic offensively. None of our forwards have been anything close to being dynamic offensively which is why there’s a debate about them being bad because of lack of icetime/development or they’re just not good enough which is why they’re not playing much.

I don't think it's an issue of "purposefully bomb" or sabotage. Zegras plays a high-risk style of play with his high skills. Kings value structure and possession. Only vets, like AA, get more leash with taking risks.

I just think he'd get fewer minutes to minimize turnovers. Which is what the current prospects are facing.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

How are the kings going to be contenders if the first round picks are flops…

Ask yourself how they managed 99 points last year when certain people (like yourself) considered the team garbage all season long...

 

[yankeeking]

I don't think it's an issue of "purposefully bomb" or sabotage. Zegras plays a high-risk style of play with his high skills. Kings value structure and possession. Only vets, like AA, get more leash with taking risks.

I just think he'd get fewer minutes to minimize turnovers. Which is what the current prospects are facing.

i think this is the most likely outcome of his style ,his shots thru his legs into goalies chests instead of keeping possession by going around the net or passing off to open players wouldn't last long , he also scored about 40% on the power play and we all know had that went. Frk and Tkacek (sp) were examples of that, one had a great shot and one had great play making abilities but didn't replace anyone on the least potent pp i can remember . He would have spent time in the AHL working on faceoffs (lost 61%) and learning to play 200 foot game on Ontario's 2/3 lines........just a thought 8 teams passed on him even though he was highly rated could it be because he plays like a one trick pony , granted a really great one trick, but still this is the NHL and they value two way play more than say the NBA especially when building a team for the long run and not arguing its the right approach but it is a approach and only time will tell, Lets pray turcotte's head isn't permanently damaged so we can argue next summer if his develop is fast enough instead of if it will ever happen

 

[Puckclektr]

Whats the deal with Turcotte? I drafted him in my keeper league and either have to drop him or have him take a roster spot this year. I have to drop one of him Zacha, Chytil or Pulijarvi.
IS he going to make the team and what do you think is going to happen? Thanks in advanced.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

The fact that Sol is creaming his pants over Zegras like he’s the next McDavid just tells me he’s more like the next coming of Jonathan Cheechoo. Sol’s track record for predictions is pretty bad.

 

[tbrown33]

Whats the deal with Turcotte? I drafted him in my keeper league and either have to drop him or have him take a roster spot this year. I have to drop one of him Zacha, Chytil or Pulijarvi.
IS he going to make the team and what do you think is going to happen? Thanks in advanced.

unfortunately he is on the Kings, which is bad news for both production and playing time for rookies. He will need injuries in front of him to make the team, and he is coming off two consecutive concussions himself.

 

[Lt Dan]

Whats the deal with Turcotte? I drafted him in my keeper league and either have to drop him or have him take a roster spot this year. I have to drop one of him Zacha, Chytil or Pulijarvi.
IS he going to make the team and what do you think is going to happen? Thanks in advanced.

Everyone needs to read this post in Jerry Seinfeld's voice

 

[Sol]

Ask yourself how they managed 99 points last year when certain people (like yourself) considered the team garbage all season long...

Oh you don’t think Quick Doughty and Kopitar age. Lmaoo you’re insane

 

[Sol]

I don't think it's an issue of "purposefully bomb" or sabotage. Zegras plays a high-risk style of play with his high skills. Kings value structure and possession. Only vets, like AA, get more leash with taking risks.

I just think he'd get fewer minutes to minimize turnovers. Which is what the current prospects are facing.

If he displays talent like he does in Anaheim they’d let him do whatever he wants . Maybe a little bit shorter leash but he’d easily outshine everyone

 

[King'sPawn]

If he displays talent like he does in Anaheim they’d let him do whatever he wants . Maybe a little bit shorter leash but he’d easily outshine everyone

We'll just never know one way or another. I disagree. Heck, with Kaliyev's shooting ability and offensive talent (he's not flashy, but he is effective), he was on the fourth line and taught he needed to learn how to check all season long.

I just don't think how you can confidently assert the Kings would just let Zegras do his thing when we literally saw the opposite happen last season with players who have the talent to be scorers. The Kings aren't a "do whatever you want" sort of organization (unless you're a vet).

 

[Herby]

I am a pretty big believer in aggressively being able to re-rank drafts because if you really look back at it historically, the guys who perform best at age 18, 19 and 20 are usually the ones who end up being the best players, certainly not always the case as with anything outliers always exist but more often than not it is the case. Take any draft and then rank it 2 or 3 years later and then compare those rankings to what one would be after 5 years (where most say they are comfortable) and you usually don't see much change. With the biggest changes being guys that came way down the draft. But if you just rank first round picks 1-32 after 2-3 years the rankings wont change much by year 5.

About 7-8 years ago, before the NTDP left Ann Arbor I was in town for a football game and met an NHL amateur scout having breakfast at our hotel, he was in town watching the NTDP play and we struck up a conversation. He told me how much more difficult it was to draft NCAA/bound players now than it was before the opt-in rule change, because evaluating how a USHL player will translate to the NHL is just so much harder than the NCAA player like it used to be. When Jesse was interviewing Yanetti I presented that question here to see if Yanetti had a similar view but unfortunately the question didn't make the cut.

So immediately after drafting a player from the NTDP you are presented with a huge jump in competition that you don't know how it will effect the player. I think this has clearly been the case with three players the Kings have drafted in the last dozen years from the NTDP. Derek Forbort and Alex Turcotte had pretty so-so seasons as NCAA freshman. Forbort's skating and rumored offensive ceiling did not translate to the next level and neither did Turcotte's offensive game, which was dominant in the USHL. Faber meanwhile never missed a beat, he was a dominant defensive defenseman from the second he stepped onto the ice in the NCAA for the University of Minnesota, and after two seasons was the key piece in a trade for a point-per-game player in Fiala.

If the NHL still drafted after freshman year it's very likely Forbort is a 2nd round pick, there is no chance Turcotte goes in the Top 10 (probably around 20) and I think a very strong case is made that Faber jumps up 20 or so picks. So if NHL teams would believe so much can change in one year after evaluating players vs better competition, why is it so difficult for fans to accept the same?

For CHL players it's a bit different since they stay at that same level for the age 18 and 19 seasons (in most cases), but there is still the huge AHL/Pro jump that normally occurs in D+3 that I think many around here greatly underestimate. If a guy taken #25 in the draft makes the jump to the AHL at 20, does really well, maybe gets a look in the NHL why is it ridiculous to say that he should go ahead of the #10 pick who struggled in the AHL at age 20?

I think the age 18, 19, 20 seasons give us more evidence to say how good a player may or may not be, but fans are to stubborn and stuck on draft evaluations and draft seasons at 17.

 

[kingsfan28]

We'll just never know one way or another. I disagree. Heck, with Kaliyev's shooting ability and offensive talent (he's not flashy, but he is effective), he was on the fourth line and taught he needed to learn how to check all season long.

I just don't think how you can confidently assert the Kings would just let Zegras do his thing when we literally saw the opposite happen last season with players who have the talent to be scorers. The Kings aren't a "do whatever you want" sort of organization (unless you're a vet).

This is a good point. Every nhl player has to learn how to play some defense, you can't just freewheel around, not even Mcdavid can do that. Zegras, while very flashy and skilled plays a position that requires defense at time. If he was our 2nd line center, his -21 and 39 pct FO this year would've been a huge problem no matter how many flashy plays or points he put up. Valardi by comparison was a -8 and a 45 pct FO player his 1st sort of full year at 2c.

Our current 2nd line center put up 25 goals, was a +14, and 53.5 from the dot.

 

[Cianide]

Said the same thing in a post from yesterday...if we are a perennial contender within next 3-5 years, regardless of the roster, nobody will give a flying f*** if these 1st rounders are flops.

That's the thing. It's a catch 22. We won't be a perennial contender within the next 3-5 years unless these 1st rounders materialize.

 

[Sol]

We'll just never know one way or another. I disagree. Heck, with Kaliyev's shooting ability and offensive talent (he's not flashy, but he is effective), he was on the fourth line and taught he needed to learn how to check all season long.

I just don't think how you can confidently assert the Kings would just let Zegras do his thing when we literally saw the opposite happen last season with players who have the talent to be scorers. The Kings aren't a "do whatever you want" sort of organization (unless you're a vet).

If you truly think the gap between player talent is that small to the point you’re talking about coaching methodology being the reason then we’re too far apart. I’m saying from a baseline perspective that Zegras is much more talented by far.

 

[Surf Nutz]

The fact that Sol is creaming his pants over Zegras like he’s the next McDavid just tells me he’s more like the next coming of Jonathan Cheechoo. Sol’s track record for predictions is pretty bad.

Sol became the one and only guy I blocked, the first week I signed up. Thought about blocking you too a couple times, but you had a couple decent posts, in between being super annoying.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Sol became the one and only guy I blocked, the first week I signed up. Thought about blocking you too a couple times, but you had a couple decent posts, in between being super annoying.

Ha, thx….I think.

 

[Statto]

Oh you don’t think Quick Doughty and Kopitar age. Lmaoo you’re insane

They do, it becomes about do the young guys improve by more than they regress.

Fiala helps significantly and Doughty likely is a net gain across the season. It hinges on Byfield and Kaliyev for the forwards and what happens with using Walker, Durzi and Spence. I think there’s a huge risk with Durzi (it’ll be boom or bust in his role) and it will be critical that if he struggles he’s not given too much leash with Spence likely in the minors and ready to go.

I think the young guys will successfully cover the slack from and age driven regression. However… goaltending. If we get 20/21 Petersen we are in good shape, if it’s 21/22 we are in trouble.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Eh, I’ll have to disagree. If Zegras showed the talent he did on the Ducks on the Kings, I have a hard time thinking they’d purposefully bomb him.

He’s much more talented than any forward we have. This isn’t debatable. So it’s hard to say he’d be riding pine while being so dynamic offensively. None of our forwards have been anything close to being dynamic offensively which is why there’s a debate about them being bad because of lack of icetime/development or they’re just not good enough which is why they’re not playing much.

Our leading PP goal scorer was buried on teh 4th line, was rarely on PP1, mostly on PP2 who got the last 25 seconds of icetime often in their own zone after PP1 shit the bed, and rarely played to his strengths (shot spot, onetimer). You can maybe make fun of the other rookies/youth for 'not performing' or whatever (even if I believe it's a chicken vs. egg argument, results matter), but not Kaliyev, and he STILL got shitall to work with. It's not a stretch to suggest an offense-only C would have been asked to learn to check on the bottom lines in LA. And that would go for STutzle or whoever else, as well.

It's not because they aren't talented players or don't 'deserve' more, it has everything to do with LA believing they have the smartest devstaff in the league and are going to do everything differently until they eventually just have to waive everyone.

 

[Schmooley]

Our leading PP goal scorer was buried on teh 4th line, was rarely on PP1, mostly on PP2 who got the last 25 seconds of icetime often in their own zone after PP1 shit the bed, and rarely played to his strengths (shot spot, onetimer). You can maybe make fun of the other rookies/youth for 'not performing' or whatever (even if I believe it's a chicken vs. egg argument, results matter), but not Kaliyev, and he STILL got shitall to work with. It's not a stretch to suggest an offense-only C would have been asked to learn to check on the bottom lines in LA. And that would go for STutzle or whoever else, as well.

It's not because they aren't talented players or don't 'deserve' more, it has everything to do with LA believing they have the smartest devstaff in the league and are going to do everything differently until they eventually just have to waive everyone.

I think it was that recent Yannetti or Murray interview where they were laughing about Stutzles deployment and how he had free reign without worrying about defense. And if he had a bad shift or game he still got regular ice time and powerplay time. The Kings arent giving any forward prospect much of a leash so its really hard to compare to other teams.

 

[Herby]

I am surprised at how much the Lombardi attitude still resonates with much of our fanbase. The picking on shortcomings of super talented players and not focusing on the God-given strengths that guys we took don’t possess.

Crap on their defensive play as much as you want but once they become dominant offensive players it’s much easier to develop a defensive game through coaching and system training than it is to go the other way around and try and develop offensive skill. Many players throughout the history of the league have improved on their defensive game dramatically, Kopitar, Yzerman, Modano even a guy like Kane got much better defensively from complete liability to serviceable.

There is no amount of coaching or training that will fix those God-given issues with some of the Kings high pick prospects, specifically Vilardi’s skating and Turcotte’s offense. You either have it or you don’t with stuff like that.

Myself and others are fine with the Kings trying to make Kaliyev (a player with plenty of high end skill) into a better two-way player but why does it have to be done at the expense of PP time and ES ice-time in the top 9? Plenty of other teams have turned players with def shortcomings into more well rounded players while also giving those players a chance to use their natural skill to not only further their offensive development but to help the team win. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

But we all know the response from the usual suspects “…who cares…what…other..teams…do” it’s all about “..The Kings way!!”